Dunning to Meet with Dr. Andrews

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I guess this answers the question about rock bottom.

[chitownsportsfan]

22 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So all three TJS are guys who came in from other organizations in Kopech, Dunning, and now Puckett.  It probably doesn't mean anything, but interesting to note.

Remember when IDing pitchers and keeping them healthy was a strength?

Edited March 14, 2019 by chitownsportsfan

[Saufley]

21 hours ago, Quin said:

This off-season is kind of a downer.

That is an understatement. Gonna take some time to get over this one. I keep hoping someone would send me a Hallmark get well soon card. 

[pcq]

When the season starts youse guys are gonna' wish it was still off-season.

[chitownsportsfan]

6 minutes ago, pcq said:

When the season starts youse guys are gonna' wish it was still off-season.

we're going to look back with nostalgia at the time we thought missing manny was "rock bottom"...

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

we're going to look back with nostalgia at the time we thought missing manny was "rock bottom"...

As the dude who previously held the title of "most irrationally pessimistic" during the first two years of the rebuild, I have to say I think the pendulum has swung way too far past me.

[Saufley]

13 minutes ago, pcq said:

When the season starts youse guys are gonna' wish it was still off-season.

NEXT off-season for sure!

[chitownsportsfan]

31 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

As the dude who previously held the title of "most irrationally pessimistic" during the first two years of the rebuild, I have to say I think the pendulum has swung way too far past me.

I hope you're right.  Lucy has pulled the football a few too times on us lately.

[Heads22]

13 hours ago, zisk said:

jimmy lambert, bernardo flores, spencer adams  etc. don't throw as hard but are still ambulatory.

 

This made me literally laugh out loud.

 

"How's Flores looking today?"

"Ambulatory."

[Lillian]

How often do veteran pitchers end up requiring TJS?  It seems like it happens much more frequently to younger pitchers. The answer could significantly affect the values of the various age groups of pitchers. Healthy veterans, with a long history of being able to avoid this injury, might become much more desirable targets of trades and free agent acquisitions, assuming that they are still effective. Someone like Verlander, or Hill, up to a reasonable age, could become more attractive than a young "fire baller".

From another perspective, perhaps teams will simply have to anticipate, or even plan to have their young hard throwers undergo this procedure. They might begin to manage the contractual time tables, including service time, around when such a procedure should be performed, in order to avoid falling victim to a circumstance, like the one which involved losing Kopech, right after he began his service time. Maybe they should have young pitchers undergo some sort of thorough exam, before starting the clock on their MLB service time.

It wouldn't be surprising if someone eventually creates a procedure to strengthen that Ulnar Collateral Ligament, as a means of preventing these injuries. Perhaps inserting some sort of bionic mechanism, to reinforce the ligament. I had previously directed a post to "Ptatc," to which he responded that there has been some exploratory work done, but with very limited success, to date.

In any case, this seems to be becoming endemic. Something is going to have to change.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Lillian

[ptatc]

30 minutes ago, Lillian said:

How often do veteran pitchers end up requiring TJS?  It seems like it happens much more frequently to younger pitchers. The answer could significantly affect the values of the various age groups of pitchers. Healthy veterans, with a long history of being able to avoid this injury, might become much more desirable targets of trades and free agent acquisitions, assuming that they are still effective. Someone like Verlander, or Hill, up to a reasonable age, could become more attractive than a young "fire baller".

From another perspective, perhaps teams will simply have to anticipate, or even plan to have their young hard throwers undergo this procedure. They might begin to manage the contractual time tables, including service time, around when such a procedure should be performed, in order to avoid falling victim to a circumstance, like the one which involved losing Kopech, right after he began his service time. Maybe they should have young pitchers undergo some sort of thorough exam, before starting the clock on their MLB service time.

It wouldn't be surprising if someone eventually creates a procedure to strengthen that Ulnar Collateral Ligament, as a means of preventing these injuries. Perhaps inserting some sort of bionic mechanism, to reinforce the ligament. I had previously directed a post to "Ptatc," to which he responded that there has been some exploratory work done, but with very limited success, to date.

In any case, this seems to be becoming endemic. Something is going to have to change.

What will probably change, as always, is the use of the pitchers. Either they will go back to pitching instead of throwing for velocity or their outings will continue to shorten. Starters may become 4 inning pitchers. There may be an opener, a long, then two short relievers per game. I think the union may see this coming with putting a cap on the number of pitchers on a roster.

[caulfield12]

On 3/14/2019 at 11:13 PM, Brian said:

Did Nardi Contreras come back or something?

The curse of Nardiwashere the SoxTalk member name strikes again.

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, ptatc said:

What will probably change, as always, is the use of the pitchers. Either they will go back to pitching instead of throwing for velocity or their outings will continue to shorten. Starters may become 4 inning pitchers. There may be an opener, a long, then two short relievers per game. I think the union may see this coming with putting a cap on the number of pitchers on a roster.

The effect of “must face a minimum of three hitters per appearance” for relievers next year (minus a faked or real injury) will be interesting to watch play out on roster composition/pitcher usage.

More Vendittes that are ambidextrous?

Edited March 15, 2019 by caulfield12

[ptatc]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The effect of “must face a minimum of three hitters per appearance” for relievers next year (minus a faked or real injury) will be interesting to watch play out on roster composition/pitcher usage.

More Vendittes that are ambidextrous?

From the few ambidextrous pitchers I've talked to it won't work. The mechanics are different from side to side that they can't be consistent if they switch sides during a game. They need to really warmup and use one side at a time.

[Nardiwashere]

24 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The curse of Nardiwashere the SoxTalk member name strikes again.

????????????

I refuse to be blamed for this!  I've had this name for years on WSI... besides... the Nardi era was torn labrums, right?  If the prospects start tearing their labrums, I'll banish myself back to WSI.

[BamaDoc]

Dunning to meet with Andrews Monday.

[Dominikk85]

On 3/13/2019 at 11:59 PM, caulfield12 said:

Washington/Rizzo looking better everyday on that Eaton trade, with Soto and Robles still in-house and the money to spend on Corbin.

To be fair eaton played well when he played but was injured all the time and is a big risk to go down again.

2017: 23 games (125 wrc+, 0.5 war)

2018: 93 games (123 wrc+, 1.9 war)

Of course the white sox return didn't exactly lit the world on fire so far albeit dunning did become a top100 prospect and even with TJ could become a solid mlb pitcher.

[justBLAZE]

Dunning underwent a Tommy John surgery earlier today in Florida, performed by Dr. James Andrews.

reported by multiple Sox insiders on twitter.

[whitesoxwinner]

Just now, justBLAZE said:

Dunning underwent a Tommy John surgery earlier today in Florida, performed by Dr. James Andrews.

reported by multiple Sox insiders on twitter.

this must be the worst offseason for morale for fans/front office. They've only gotten negative press

[greg775]

1 hour ago, whitesoxwinner said:

this must be the worst offseason for morale for fans/front office. They've only gotten negative press

Not to be an alarmist, but this is not a White Sox problem. Pitchers arms on the whole can't handle modern day baseball or any kind of baseball. There's just way too many arm surgeries. I wonder what the percentage is now for pitchers who pitched in college, the minor leagues and/or the major leagues. Do studies show a SIGNIFICANT percentage are having surgery at 23 or 24? Seems like between the last pitch in college and 2nd year in the bigs there's a huge percentage undergoing surgery. If I'm mistaken, so be it. PTATC if you want to write an essay on your theories and what you know in terms of percentages and why, why why this is happening, I'd read it and be grateful and someday buy you a beer or soft drink at a game.

Edited March 19, 2019 by greg775

[oldsox]

Lots of pitchers back in the day threw a lot of innings for a lot of years and never had injuries like this.  See Warren Spahn, Robin Roberts, Steve Carlton.  Of course they didn't throw 100 mph, and they had different exercise routines.  Instead of massive weight lifting that enable the modern pitchers to throw so hard, the old timers did things like run wind sprints, do long toss, etc.  They also drank beer.  Now these guys are built like linebackers and drink protein shakes.

I'm just babbling, pay no attention, but I am disappointed in the Dunning situation, but not one bit surprised.

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Lots of pitchers back in the day threw a lot of innings for a lot of years and never had injuries like this.  See Warren Spahn, Robin Roberts, Steve Carlton.  Of course they didn't throw 100 mph, and they had different exercise routines.  Instead of massive weight lifting that enable the modern pitchers to throw so hard, the old timers did things like run wind sprints, do long toss, etc.  They also drank beer.  Now these guys are built like linebackers and drink protein shakes.

I'm just babbling, pay no attention, but I am disappointed in the Dunning situation, but not one bit surprised.

Nolan Ryan did the cattle wrangling and calf roping on his ranch...and some type of exercise with his arms in kegs filled with something like rice or sand?

Roberto Clemente strengthened his forearms by squeezing what amounts to a racquetball while growing up in Puerto Rico.

Yeah, you just wonder how guys like Mantle and Ruth made it, with all the drinking.  Mantle famously stepped on a sprinkler head and ruined one of his knees, or he might have been the greatest all-around player in history (had he taken care of himself better from a physical and psychological standpoint.)

[ptatc]

14 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Lots of pitchers back in the day threw a lot of innings for a lot of years and never had injuries like this.  See Warren Spahn, Robin Roberts, Steve Carlton.  Of course they didn't throw 100 mph, and they had different exercise routines.  Instead of massive weight lifting that enable the modern pitchers to throw so hard, the old timers did things like run wind sprints, do long toss, etc.  They also drank beer.  Now these guys are built like linebackers and drink protein shakes.

I'm just babbling, pay no attention, but I am disappointed in the Dunning situation, but not one bit surprised.

I think much of the reason from back then was a version of natural selection. To make it to the MLB they spent more time in the minors and the ones who got injured didn't make it. With more teams and the number of pitchers needed now they can't afford to just let pitchers get injured and leave.

[ChiSox1917]

19 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Lots of pitchers back in the day threw a lot of innings for a lot of years and never had injuries like this.  See Warren Spahn, Robin Roberts, Steve Carlton.  Of course they didn't throw 100 mph, and they had different exercise routines.  Instead of massive weight lifting that enable the modern pitchers to throw so hard, the old timers did things like run wind sprints, do long toss, etc.  They also drank beer.  Now these guys are built like linebackers and drink protein shakes.

I'm just babbling, pay no attention, but I am disappointed in the Dunning situation, but not one bit surprised.

Fire our strength trainer and nutritionist and get these guys on a beer and hot dog offseason diet

[caulfield12]

Here's a way to put this whole thing in perspective...and Padres currently have 16 (SIXTEEN) pitchers who could easily be ranked ahead of Dunning/Hansen/Lambert/Flores!!!

No doubt:  M.Gore, Chris Paddack (will make the starting rotation, he's their version of Kopech), Cal Quantrill, Morejon, Michael Baez and Anderson Espinoza (Red Sox trade) and Logan Allen.  Joey Lucchesi and Lauer already in the rotation.

Total=9

 

Better: Patino, Dilson Lamet (coming back from TJ this season), Matt Strahm (Royals trade, will make starting rotation after reconverting from relief)

Total=3

 

Arguable/Debatable either way:  R.Erlin, R.Weathers, Luis Perdomo, Jacob Nix

Total=4