Eloy officially got paid

[caulfield12]

43 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

WTF...like I have no ide what this post even means.  What does spending $100M on Eloy have to do with any of the names you just mentioned?  How does this support your claim it’s idiotic to spend $100M on a guy who needs to “hit like Ramirez” to be valuable?  Also, please stop pretending Narvaez is a 2 win player just because BaltaBot keeps saying it in his endless request to rip the Colome trade.

So we should now go by BRef numbers only when it suits our argument?

It is idiotic to give that contract to a two tool player but not a true five tool one that can consistently put up 4-6 fWAR seasons at a minimum.

If he plays negative defense (I’ve watched him quite a bit this spring, he’s made one nice play...but had to dive because of his lack of range), and doesn’t have much an arm and can’t run that well, why do we have to make this offer two full years of big league before the greatest player in baseball history got an extension offer from the Angels?  What’s the rush, all of a sudden?

Edited March 14, 2019 by caulfield12

[Moan4Yoan]

12 minutes ago, ptatc said:

When people have an agenda they will twist anything to further it.

I believe you posted in the past that you would rip the Sox front office if they failed to sign Machado or Harper for a reasonable amount of money and $300 million was within that range for you.  Now you are still defending the Sox front offseason and their $45 million of mediocre acquisitions.  What gives?

Edited March 14, 2019 by Harper2Sox

[ptatc]

39 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The "Whiny narrative" from the fans has absolutely nothing to do with the whiny executive VP of baseball operations whining repeatedly about payroll flexibility, of course. It's only the whiny fans who count. 

Payroll flexibility is a valid concern. The FO has no idea what the payroll will be in 5 years. If JR restricts the payroll to 120 can they field a competitive team with 25% going to a single 0layer?

What isn't a valid comment is saying that they couldn't go to 300 million. Go to more years and it drops the AAV like Harper got.

[Moan4Yoan]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Payroll flexibility is a valid concern. The FO has no idea what the payroll will be in 5 years. If JR restricts the payroll to 120 can they field a competitive team with 25% going to a single 0layer?

What isn't a valid comment is saying that they couldn't go to 300 million. Go to more years and it drops the AAV like Harper got.

So why not just sign Harper then?

There’s always an excuse.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Harper2Sox

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said:

I believe you posted in the past that you would rip the Sox front office if they failed to sign Machado or Harper for a reasonable amount of money and $300 million was within that range for you.  Now you are still defending the Sox front offseason and their $45 million of mediocre acquisitions.  Now, you are still defending them.  What gives?

I'm not defending them for not signing those players. But I'm not taking everything else and saying its horrible move just because I didn't like them not signing Machado or Harper. Just because they screwed up one thing doesn't mean everything they do is bad. They are separate moves and can be judged individually. 

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Payroll flexibility is a valid concern. The FO has no idea what the payroll will be in 5 years. If JR restricts the payroll to 120 can they field a competitive team with 25% going to a single 0layer?

What isn't a valid comment is saying that they couldn't go to 300 million. Go to more years and it drops the AAV like Harper got.

Why $120 million when it was $125-135 million a decade ago?  The White Sox are the only team that can magically compete in the face of inflation and have declining payrolls with higher/increasing win totals?

Couldn’t Hahn’s son simply pick 5-6 random FA’s out of a hat and spend $45 million more effectively just by random probability? 

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said:

So why not just sign Harper then?

There’s always an excuse.

They could have. But every moves needs to be judged and weighed . How much will the contract drag the team down when Harper is 37 and can't play? If the young players from the rebuild do well, the team may not have the resources to get additions because of that contract .

I'm not saying they shouldn't have signed one of them, they should have. However, there are some valid reasons why they may not be a wise use of resources for a team that historically doesn't have a high payroll from a FO perspective. 

[Chisox378]

The stats look pretty good for Eloy in the minors although he has 310 K's to 117 walks.  But why would a team pay that much money for a guy that hasnt proven anything in the Majors?

[Moan4Yoan]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

They could have. But every moves needs to be judged and weighed . How much will the contract drag the team down when Harper is 37 and can't play? If the young players from the rebuild do well, the team may not have the resources to get additions because of that contract .

I'm not saying they shouldn't have signed one of them, they should have. However, there are some valid reasons why they may not be a wise use of resources for a team that historically doesn't have a high payroll from a FO perspective. 

So don’t pay a proven player a reasonable AAV now because you are worried about paying unproven players in the future a high AAV that will be increased due to inflation?

[Y2Jimmy0]

I have no idea if it's true but it makes some sense for both parties obviously. If the Sox do nothing, Eloy comes up on April 26th. He plays this year and 6 more seasons. He'll likely qualify for Super Two status which gives him 4 arbitration years. If the Sox believe that Eloy is an absolute stud, those arb years could potentially cost between $50-$60 million. If you look at year 8 as a $30 million commitment, then you are really only giving him $10-$15 million over the first 3 years where he'd cost you peanuts otherwise. It makes sense for the Sox because he could be in the lineup on opening day, never have to go through the arb process and it could be structured in a manner that is cost efficient. If he bombs, it looks really bad but I think they get praised if they ultimately do it. For Eloy, he could likely make more $$ betting on himself, but guaranteeing yourself $100 million would be tough to turn down and it's only foregoing 1 free agent year. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Y2Jimmy0

[Chisox378]

But why would we take a risk on an unproven player especially with our organization promting hitters to hit .230 and K alot. Look what happened with Moncana. If Eloy proves himself, then give him the money. Meanwhile maybe some of that money can sign Rendon next season.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Just now, Chisox378 said:

But why would we take a risk on an unproven player especially with our organization promting hitters to hit .230 and K alot. Look what happened with Moncana. If Eloy proves himself, then give him the money. Meanwhile maybe some of that money can sign Rendon next season.

If the Sox wait for him to "prove himself", it likely costs a hell of a lot more $$ 

[Moan4Yoan]

This just feels like the Sox are spending money to save face with the fans after the Machado debacle.  Then Hahn can say, “SEE, I told you we would spend the money!!!”

[Moan4Yoan]

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

If the Sox wait for him to "prove himself", it likely costs a hell of a lot more $$ 

So risk $100 million guaranteed for one extra year of control?  How does that make sense?

Edited March 14, 2019 by Harper2Sox

[Y2Jimmy0]

Just now, Harper2Sox said:

So risk $100 million guaranteed for one extra year of control?

That's not what I said. Read my post from a few minutes ago. 

[ptatc]

5 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said:

So don’t pay a proven player a reasonable AAV now because you are worried about paying unproven players in the future a high AAV that will be increased due to inflation?

He is proven now but what will it be like in 10 years when there still 3 years in the deal?

I would take that chance and I think they are wrong for not doing it. But from their perspective, how many 10+ year deals have really worked out in the team's benefit? It is a risk.

[username]

LOL at people somehow being upset by this.

#1 it’s unlikely to be the deal hector is saying because that doesn’t compute with arb and any potential payout. So it’s likely more favorable than this  #2 guys, it’s $12 million a year (likely less if #1 is true).  Its not going to cripple anything if we miss.  Eloy doesn’t have Yo’s swing and miss issues and is a much safer spec.  

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

If the Sox wait for him to "prove himself", it likely costs a hell of a lot more $$ 

I don't see it it would be a lot more. It may be slightly more if he's a star among stars. I also think you could have offered him something along the same lines in a year or 2. It would be hard for him to turn down 9 figures then. 

[Moan4Yoan]

8 minutes ago, ptatc said:

He is proven now but what will it be like in 10 years when there still 3 years in the deal?

I would take that chance and I think they are wrong for not doing it. But from their perspective, how many 10+ year deals have really worked out in the team's benefit? It is a risk.

The I guess we should accept that the Sox will never sign a premier free agent because 10-13 years and $300-$330 million is the going rate for them.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

I love Eloy and think he is going to be great, but why give a guy 100 million when they weren't willing to give a superstar in Manny Machado an extra 50 million to get him to sign here? It makes no sense.

[TomPickle]

I will say that this deal could make a ton of sense depending on how it is structured. If they don't go super cheap on the first three years say something like this

2019: $5 MM
2020: $8 MM
2021: $10 MM
2022-24: $15 MM
2025-26: $16 MM

If Eloy lives up to the billing it would be very valuable to have a guy like that making something in the mid teens. You would be "over-paying" in the short term, but the White Sox can definitely afford to eat that small cost with the payroll as it currently stands.

[Chisox378]

I'm not looking to scare anybody but Eloy Jiminez 2019 Spring Training Stats:

26PA

.154 BA

9 K's

0 BB

Sox not developing players right.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said:

I believe you posted in the past that you would rip the Sox front office if they failed to sign Machado or Harper for a reasonable amount of money and $300 million was within that range for you.  Now you are still defending the Sox front offseason and their $45 million of mediocre acquisitions.  What gives?

I can answer that since Ptatc now has. Those mediocre acquisitions were made with getting Machado in mind , to solidify the starting rotation and to help the young relievers, possible get something at the trade deadline and really just fill the roster in positions that needed to be filled.. Some moves need to be done early. This is the time when you are most like;y to misread the market

Each one has to be broken down . Alonso/Jay Manny Moves. Pure and simple don't make a lot of sense NOW. So can't really say they suck because they don't if we had got Machado.

Colome/Narvaez. Decent arguments to be made on both sides. Certainly not a slam dunk bad move.

Herrera? Top reliever .Has had a great career. Paid market rate . His peers like Familia and Miller got just as much if not more. ALso not a slam dunk bad deal. Protect the young arms, made the team a little more attractive for Manny.Also  trade deadline bait.

Who else ? Oh my favorite Nova. 1 year left on contract when traded for @$10M gave up a lottery ticket and int'l slot money. An early move for a proven innings eater necessary with a young and injured (Rodon) staff. Very crucial to have mostly guaranteed innings eaten . No one can say he will stay healthy this year but he does have a 3 year consistent track record. Not many can say that and also be had for just a year. Shields  can but who wanted him back at 37 years old. Nova's 32. Gio Gonzales might want more than 1 year and he's still unsigned ? How long were SOx supposed to wait on filling that need ?

McCann ? Young at 28 . Possible still has upside other wise you are looking at 32-36 year olds. Back up catcher not really worth saying his 2.5 salary was wasted money . Maldanado same salary but incentives for extra $1.4M so  what are we really crying about here ?

I mean sure better deals were out there when you look at the late developing market. But how long do you wait when filling holes or trying to make Manny happy ? What is really the difference between what the Sox spent and what they could've spent ? Every team could ask these same questions.

Remember how excited a bunch of posters here thought wow we get Machado , Joc Pederson, we have a good BP we're ready to compete ? Just add Keuchel or someone and let's roll? I didn't hear any complaints then about the other money being spent so badly . It's only after the Machado loss that we all get pissed off and say everything sucks !

 

[Moan4Yoan]

And yes, without Machado or Harper the entire offseason does indeed suck.  $45 million wasted on a bunch of mediocre players for 1-2 years.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Harper2Sox

[fathom]

I shouldn’t have used the phrase “we suck” tax. It’s more of a “we read the market wrong” tax.  Anyways, happy to have Eloy here for 8 years if true.