caulfield12 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Seems like one of the only solutions on the pitching front is a trade, if we’re unwilling to pay for Sale, Verlander, Cole... Buy out Greinke’s deal, something like $96 million remaining. 10.8 fWAR in the NL West over the last three years, 3.6 average. 3.6 x 9= $32.4 million of value Jameson Fisher and Yolmer/Leury for assuming remainder of Greinke deal? Much more realistically, Chris Archer would be 10 fWAR=3.33 3.33 x 9=$30 million of value $7.5 million salary in 2019, two options valued at $8.25 million for both 2020/21, $24 million total for next three years (age 30-32) $1.75 million 2020 buyout What would the Pirates need in return to make this work? Syndegaard I’m pretty sure with three years, deGrom’s two years make no logical sense without Machado/Harper. Cost would be Jimenez+...not sure they would accept Robert, Cease and Madrigal....and that would wipe out three core pieces of the rebuild that have to be above average major leaguers, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 I count 16 player names in this post. Based on the title I am intrigued at what happens when divide DeGrom by an Asgardian and want to run this experiment. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I count 16 player names in this post. Based on the title I am intrigued at what happens when divide DeGrom by an Asgardian and want to run this experiment. Fine we have no prayer to get a really good FA pitcher because we just allocated all our money to Eloy Jimenez, so why not acquire one of four possible pitchers that might be available for various reasons before the trade deadline? Happy now...? Exciting stuff, for sure. Suggesting potential trades without mentioning realistic names is also quite thought-provoking. Edited March 15, 2019 by caulfield12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Fine we have no prayer to get a really good FA pitcher because we just allocated all our money to Eloy Jimenez, so why not acquire one of four possible pitchers that might be available for various reasons before the trade deadline? Happy now...? Exciting stuff, for sure. Suggesting potential trades without mentioning realistic names is also quite thought-provoking. First of all, no I seriously doubt that the White Sox will sell off anything for pitching at this trade deadline. Teams pay a premium price for pitching at the trade deadline so that they can compete right then. The White Sox will have no reason to pay a premium price to compete in 2019, so the premise is flawed. Next offseason, adding pitching might be reasonable, but because you stacked your post with so many different pitchers its literally impossible to consider anything you've written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: First of all, no I seriously doubt that the White Sox will sell off anything for pitching at this trade deadline. Teams pay a premium price for pitching at the trade deadline so that they can compete right then. The White Sox will have no reason to pay a premium price to compete in 2019, so the premise is flawed. Next offseason, adding pitching might be reasonable, but because you stacked your post with so many different pitchers its literally impossible to consider anything you've written. Did your cat or dog pee on the carpet this morning? You really want four separate posts or threads, one outlining each pitcher? Covering a couple lines of simple/rudimentary statistics? Every time I see 2019-20 FA’s listed, there are always tons of names in these threads, with only seven of the being realistic top and second tier targets. If we were trying to acquire Manny Machado last offseason (2017-18) and during the actual season in order to convince him to sign an undervalue extension before he hit the market, one of the top players in all of baseball, why exactly would it be that hard to acquire Archer or Greinke? I think not, at least compared to the two young Mets’ pitchers. Edited March 15, 2019 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisox378 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 I like all our prospects so much I hate giving any of them away right now. I do like Archer, but I cant see any deal working. Maybe, just maybe Basabe for Archer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 The only way I take on Grienke dollars is if I get one of their top prospects with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: Fine we have no prayer to get a really good FA pitcher because we just allocated all our money to Eloy Jimenez, so why not acquire one of four possible pitchers that might be available for various reasons before the trade deadline? Happy now...? Exciting stuff, for sure. Suggesting potential trades without mentioning realistic names is also quite thought-provoking. We haven’t signed Eloy to an extension and even if we do, how does that prevent us from adding pitcher via free agency exactly? Very confused here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: We haven’t signed Eloy to an extension and even if we do, how does that prevent us from adding pitcher via free agency exactly? Very confused here. The standard reaction to all Caulfield posts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisox378 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 If we are going to trade with Pitts we should trade for Keven Newman as well as Archer, we can move Newman to 2nd base. Of course the price goes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Just now, Chisox378 said: If we are going to trade with Pitts we should trade for Keven Newman as well as Archer, we can move Newman to 2nd base. Of course the price goes up. Now I’m actually convinced you’re just trolling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisox378 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 haha.I have always loved Kevin Newman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Balta1701 said: I count 16 player names in this post. Based on the title I am intrigued at what happens when divide DeGrom by an Asgardian and want to run this experiment. How bout that 4-packed title?! Never in all my days... Caulfield, I think you are right about trading for pitching but the year is off. Who would be the realistic targets with 3-4 years AFTER this year and then AFTER the next year? I’d look it up but I have no idea how you do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: We haven’t signed Eloy to an extension and even if we do, how does that prevent us from adding pitcher via free agency exactly? Very confused here. I’ll refer you back to the sarcastic/hyperbolic tenor of all your posts about moving to Nashville...of course they CAN afford to pay Sale, Verlander and Cole, but WILL they? You really want to double down again that we can add a Jimenez extension, one of those three pitchers and another $75-125 million on a position prospect/hitter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Kalapse said: The standard reaction to all Caulfield posts. Elated you could add to your low “likes” count... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Just now, caulfield12 said: I’ll refer you back to the sarcastic/hyperbolic tenor of all your posts about moving to Nashville...of course they CAN afford to pay Sale, Verlander and Cole, but WILL they? You really want to double down again that we can add a Jimenez extension, one of those three pitchers and another $75-125 million on a position prospect/hitter? Sure I’ll double down on that. And there was nothing sarcastic / hyperbolic about me moving to Nashville...it’s very likely happening in the next couple months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, Jerksticks said: How bout that 4-packed title?! Never in all my days... Caulfield, I think you are right about trading for pitching but the year is off. Who would be the realistic targets with 3-4 years AFTER this year and then AFTER the next year? I’d look it up but I have no idea how you do it. How many more injuries to top pitching prospects do you think it will take for them to feel compelled to make a move to simply reverse the “rebuild is failing/fading” narrative? We’re already starting to see anomalous behavior...the biggest contract in MLB history for someone without any major league at-bats under their belt? Since when do we set precedents of actually increasing the cost of doing business by being overly generous? What allows them to be SO certain about Jimenez that they lacked the conviction to do so with generational talents Machado and Harper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Sure I’ll double down on that. And there was nothing sarcastic / hyperbolic about me moving to Nashville...it’s very likely happening in the next couple months. I thought it was Goldschmidt/JDM, Bumgarner...? Or you’re NOW willing to elevate that to Sale/2+ years to Verlander (mutual option for Year 3)/Gerrit Cole, a generous Jimenez extension AND JDM/Goldschmidt/Rendon/Bogaerts/DiDi G? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: How many more injuries to top pitching prospects do you think it will take for them to feel compelled to make a move to simply reverse the “rebuild is failing/fading” narrative? If they continue to have pitching injuries...they will not have the resources to make these moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: If they continue to have pitching injuries...they will not have the resources to make these moves. Hence, the need to simply “buy” or subsidize Greinke or “outcheap” the Pirates igpf they get buried way early in the NL Central by June...in that case, Polanco or Marte will be dangled out there as well. They’ve already demonstrated an ability to dump franchise cornerstones in McCutcheon and Cole. Ultimately, they’ll blink on Archer, who is exactly the type of veteran rotation anchor we need right now, and can easily afford in terms of less than $30 million in salary commitments through 2021. Of course, then he’d be on the Rodon timeline for FA again at age 32/33. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 19 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Elated you could add to your low “likes” count... Pretty sure you've posted more in the past hour than I have in the past 2 years combined, not all of us are as perpetually bored as you seem to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Kalapse said: Pretty sure you've posted more in the past hour than I have in the past 2 years combined, not all of us are as perpetually bored as you seem to be. Trust me, you’ll see plenty of non activity out of many posters by the second half of the season, after the draft and trade deadline pass and 1/2 of our top prospects are parked on the injured list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 24 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: I thought it was Goldschmidt/JDM, Bumgarner...? Or you’re NOW willing to elevate that to Sale/2+ years to Verlander (mutual option for Year 3)/Gerrit Cole, a generous Jimenez extension AND JDM/Goldschmidt/Rendon/Bogaerts/DiDi G? I still think two impact free agents is a possibility easily. I already ruled out Sale, Cole, & Bogaerts and probably Rendon too. But short-term money will not be a problem and guys like Verlander, Bumgarner, JDM, Goldschmidt, Grandal will happen. You keep talking like our plan is to rock a sub $100M payroll and that this extension that hasn’t even happened yet will someone prevent us from adding guys even though Eloy will be dirt cheap over the next few years regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 4 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Seems like one of the only solutions on the pitching front is a trade, if we’re unwilling to pay for Sale, Verlander, Cole... Buy out Greinke’s deal, something like $96 million remaining. 10.8 fWAR in the NL West over the last three years, 3.6 average. 3.6 x 9= $32.4 million of value Jameson Fisher and Yolmer/Leury for assuming remainder of Greinke deal? Much more realistically, Chris Archer would be 10 fWAR=3.33 3.33 x 9=$30 million of value $7.5 million salary in 2019, two options valued at $8.25 million for both 2020/21, $24 million total for next three years (age 30-32) $1.75 million 2020 buyout What would the Pirates need in return to make this work? Syndegaard I’m pretty sure with three years, deGrom’s two years make no logical sense without Machado/Harper. Cost would be Jimenez+...not sure they would accept Robert, Cease and Madrigal....and that would wipe out three core pieces of the rebuild that have to be above average major leaguers, anyway. LOL at Robert, Cease and Madrigal for anyone; let alone a pitcher with a strong injury history. No one is netting 3 top 30ish prospects in baseball. Chris Sale on a team friendly deal and durability and longevity only netted 2 top 30 guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 I'd take Greinke's salary off AZ's hands. The next three years, try to get a rotation out of 5 of the following: Greinke/Rodon/Lopez/Kopech/Cease/Giolito/The ghost of Dane Dunning/Hansen/Lambert etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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