The Case for Dalllas Keuchel

[Insp]

The Sox have not signed any major free agents for quite some time.  If the Sox are to avoid losing fan support and become permanent also-rans to the Cubs, it is imperative that the team sign Dalllas Keuchel who is the single best free agent who is yet unsigned.  

Just look at the man's stats:  https://www.mlb.com/player/dallas-keuchel-572971  He was a 20 game winner as recently as 2015 and his lifetime ERA is 3.66.  His career W-L record is 76-63.

Add in the fact that he is only 31 years old and it's clear that Dallas Keuchel is the single best pitcher that the Sox could pick up.  Given the fact that pitching is the team's weakness, its a vital necessity for the White Sox to contact his agent and sign him right up.

What do you guys think?

Edited March 16, 2019 by Insp

[Waylo Kneehigh]

He's in decline and has been at least the past two seasons.  I like him but imo he's not worth what he will get so I'd pass. 

[WBWSF]

If the White Sox can sign him for  3years  or less, sign him.  I would rather see him in the rotation than Giolito or Fulmer. The White Sox rotation is almost hopeless and its pointing to another 100 loss season. Sign him. The sooner the better.

[Chicago White Sox]

We should not be signing any free agents that cost us draft picks now that we’ve missed on Machado & Harper.

[BackDoorBreach]

He costs a pick and he wants 4 years.  Hard pass

[TheFutureIsNear]

25 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

He costs a pick and he wants 4 years.  Hard pass

I think it’s pretty obvious it doesn’t matter what he wants at this point, he’s not getting 4 years. 

Not arguing the part about not signing him at all tho. I’m not even sure what our “window” is at this point, but it’s very possible Keuchel doesn’t even fit into it 

[flavum]

Really like Keuchel and think he’s got good years ahead of him, but the fit is terrible at this point. He’d be better off joining a contender on a 1-year deal, with an option or something like that. 

[Chicago White Sox]

Also, with Dunning likely needing TJS, the need to add a veteran pitcher prior to the 2020 season becomes vitally important.  That being said, there will be a ton of options comparable to Dallas if not better next offseason.  These include:

• Chris Sale (31) - 6.5/7.7/4.9
• Gerritt Gole (29) - 6.3/3.1/2.6
• Justin Verlander (37) - 6.8/4.1/5.2
• Madison Bumgarner (30) - 1.7/1.4/4.9
• Rick Porcello (31) - 2.7/2.1/5.2
• Zack Wheeler (29) - 4.1/0.3/2.6*
• Alex Wood (29) - 2.6/3.5/1.3
• Michael Wacha (28) - 0.8/3.2/1.9
• Dallas Keuchel (32) - 3.6/2.4/2.6

Admittedly, outside of the top 3, a lot of these guys have question marks.  That being said, all five of the other guys have put up a 3 win in the past three years, are younger than Dallas, and potentially won’t cost a draft pick or at least one as high as this year’s pick.

With 2019 being a lost season, waiting is the still the best course of action.

[Chi Town Sox]

Kuechel isn’t bringing any fan support back right now, it’s up to the young guys at this point. 

[southsider2k5]

With a draft pick involved,  I will pass.

[Jack Parkman]

Dallas Keuchel is going to be the next James Shields. Not a chance in hell I'd sign him. There is a reason he doesn't have a contract yet. 

[SCCWS]

4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Also, with Dunning likely needing TJS, the need to add a veteran pitcher prior to the 2020 season becomes vitally important.  That being said, there will be a ton of options comparable to Dallas if not better next offseason.  These include:

• Chris Sale (31) - 6.5/7.7/4.9
• Gerritt Gole (29) - 6.3/3.1/2.6
• Justin Verlander (37) - 6.8/4.1/5.2
• Madison Bumgarner (30) - 1.7/1.4/4.9
• Rick Porcello (31) - 2.7/2.1/5.2
• Zack Wheeler (29) - 4.1/0.3/2.6*
• Alex Wood (29) - 2.6/3.5/1.3
• Michael Wacha (28) - 0.8/3.2/1.9
• Dallas Keuchel (32) - 3.6/2.4/2.6

Admittedly, outside of the top 3, a lot of these guys have question marks.  That being said, all five of the other guys have put up a 3 win in the past three years, are younger than Dallas, and potentially won’t cost a draft pick or at least one as high as this year’s pick.

With 2019 being a lost season, waiting is the still the best course of action.

I think Porcello would be a great add. My gut is sale will resign and Porcello will move on. Not sure he would be a #1  but a solid #2. 

[Sleepy Harold]

40 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Dallas Keuchel is going to be the next James Shields. Not a chance in hell I'd sign him. There is a reason he doesn't have a contract yet. 

Sign him and trade him for the next Tatis Jr. Genius move. 

[Jack Parkman]

2 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Sign him and trade him for the next Tatis Jr. Genius move. 

LOL. Wishful thinking ,not everyone is as stupid as Hahn and Kenny. 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Waylo Kneehigh]

15 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

LOL. Wishful thinking ,not everyone is as stupid as Hahn and Kenny. 

To be fair, the WS as well as a couple other teams were had by SD lying about players they were trading saying they were healthy when they really weren't.  Something about keeping two separate injury lists, one for the league and one for trade purposes. 

from https://www.southsidesox.com/2019/2/27/18243353/aj-preller-manny-machado-padres-stay-classy-san-diego

"Just a couple of years ago, ESPN broke news that San Diego maintained two sets of medical information on its players — one “authentic” set including every ailment suffered by players, minor or otherwise, and a second set, the one shared with other teams in trade talks, which was filled with omissions with Preller’s knowledge and endorsement. Preller, by ESPN’s estimate, under-reported Padres injuries by more than 80%."

and

" Three other teams, presumably all who’d traded with San Diego during its stretch of cheating the rest of the league, filed complaints, but MLB opted not to punish Preller or the Padres further for any other improprieties. Presumably the White Sox were among those filing complaints, as they’d committed the infamous James Shields-Fernando Tatis Jr. swap in the same time frame."

They were swindled and MLB did nothing for the team.  Just a month long suspension for the needle dick in SD.  This idea that the FO is stupid is just not correct.  Good at their jobs?  I'm willing to let Hahn do his thing but KW needs to gtfo but that's besides the point, everyone referencing the FO ineptitude is just sore from the Machado thing.  They got shaded by a shade ball in SD.  Folks will believe what they will but I'm not on board with the FO bashing outside of KW.

[Jack Parkman]

17 minutes ago, Worldbreaker Palk said:

To be fair, the WS as well as a couple other teams were had by SD lying about players they were trading saying they were healthy when they really weren't.  Something about keeping two separate injury lists, one for the league and one for trade purposes. 

from https://www.southsidesox.com/2019/2/27/18243353/aj-preller-manny-machado-padres-stay-classy-san-diego

"Just a couple of years ago, ESPN broke news that San Diego maintained two sets of medical information on its players — one “authentic” set including every ailment suffered by players, minor or otherwise, and a second set, the one shared with other teams in trade talks, which was filled with omissions with Preller’s knowledge and endorsement. Preller, by ESPN’s estimate, under-reported Padres injuries by more than 80%."

and

" Three other teams, presumably all who’d traded with San Diego during its stretch of cheating the rest of the league, filed complaints, but MLB opted not to punish Preller or the Padres further for any other improprieties. Presumably the White Sox were among those filing complaints, as they’d committed the infamous James Shields-Fernando Tatis Jr. swap in the same time frame."

They were swindled and MLB did nothing for the team.  Just a month long suspension for the needle dick in SD.  This idea that the FO is stupid is just not correct.  Good at their jobs?  I'm willing to let Hahn do his thing but KW needs to gtfo but that's besides the point, everyone referencing the FO ineptitude is just sore from the Machado thing.  They got shaded by a shade ball in SD.  Folks will believe what they will but I'm not on board with the FO bashing outside of KW.

I don't think Hahn is as horrible as most think. I put the majority of the blame on Kenny and Uncle Jerry. They should both gtfo of the way and let Hahn do his job. If Uncle Jerry thinks of Kenny as his adopted son, I have no problem with Kenny remaining with the org as long as he's not allowed to meddle in baseball decisions anymore. He can have a job as long as it is as an "emeritus" position. Only there to continue collecting a paycheck, as Uncle Jerry promised Kenny's folks back in the 80s that he'd take care of Kenny. Uncle Jerry has been a man of his word and has taken care of KW post playing career because baseball didn't work out for him. That is very admirable and I give JR many kudos for that. I will also say the JR seems like a legitimately decent human being and this is just proof of that, but he does put business and personal generosity in two distinct boxes completely separate from each other. He seems like a ruthless businessman but an otherwise generous person, if that makes any sense to you. It is weird how he runs his teams. If you're a rank and file org worker he treats you like family, but if you're the on the field/court product he treats you like a piece of meat. 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't think Hahn is as horrible as most think. I put the majority of the blame on Kenny and Uncle Jerry. They should both gtfo of the way and let Hahn do his job. If Uncle Jerry thinks of Kenny as his adopted son, I have no problem with Kenny remaining with the org as long as he's not allowed to meddle in baseball decisions anymore. He can have a job as long as it is as an "emeritus" position. Only there to continue collecting a paycheck, as Uncle Jerry promised Kenny's folks back in the 80s that he'd take care of Kenny. Uncle Jerry has been a man of his word and has taken care of KW post playing career because baseball didn't work out for him. That is very admirable and I give JR many kudos for that. I will also say the JR seems like a legitimately decent human being and this is just proof of that, but he does put business and personal generosity in two distinct boxes completely separate from each other. He seems like a ruthless businessman but an otherwise generous person, if that makes any sense to you. It is weird how he runs his teams. If you're a rank and file org worker he treats you like family, but if you're the on the field/court product he treats you like a piece of meat. 

Ah time to bring back the old trademark:

Rick Hahn's Decisions can't possibly be Rick Hahn's Fault ™

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't think Hahn is as horrible as most think. I put the majority of the blame on Kenny and Uncle Jerry. They should both gtfo of the way and let Hahn do his job. If Uncle Jerry thinks of Kenny as his adopted son, I have no problem with Kenny remaining with the org as long as he's not allowed to meddle in baseball decisions anymore. He can have a job as long as it is as an "emeritus" position. Only there to continue collecting a paycheck, as Uncle Jerry promised Kenny's folks back in the 80s that he'd take care of Kenny. Uncle Jerry has been a man of his word and has taken care of KW post playing career because baseball didn't work out for him. That is very admirable and I give JR many kudos for that. I will also say the JR seems like a legitimately decent human being and this is just proof of that, but he does put business and personal generosity in two distinct boxes completely separate from each other. He seems like a ruthless businessman but an otherwise generous person, if that makes any sense to you. It is weird how he runs his teams. If you're a rank and file org worker he treats you like family, but if you're the on the field/court product he treats you like a piece of meat. 

Without Paddy and KW, they wouldn’t have had Avi Garcia, Jose Abreu, Luis Robert and Fernando Tatis, Jr.

Nearly every FA idea that Hahn has put together has gone dreadfully awry.

The “friends and family” plan for Machado will go down Top 5 in modern Sox (disappointment) history unless Manny’s career completely falls apart.

 

To summarize, still not convinced of even one thing that Hahn is personally responsible for...on the positive side of the ledger.

Everything is Hostetler’s fault (drafting), strength and conditioning (injuries) or minor league development (Getz/coaching staff)...or JR being cheap or a cutthroat businessman with twin agendas.

He sucks at his job.  It’s not KW’s fault for “meddling.”  The buck stops with the GM.  If he has limited authority, have some self-respect and go somewhere else where you can actually sell your vision of fiduciary responsibility and carrying water for ownership.

Edited March 16, 2019 by caulfield12

[WBWSF]

1) This is year 7 that Hahn has been the GM. Not one winning season and he still has his job. That he still is the GM has to be one of the amazing things in the modern history of the franchise. He would be gone from any other MLB team by now.

2) There's a lot of unsold tickets for the White Sox home opener. It will be interesting to see how many fans come out this year for Opening Day.

Edited March 17, 2019 by WBWSF

[caulfield12]

25 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

1) This is year 7 that Hahn has been the GM. Not one winning season and he still has his job. That he still is the GM has to be one of the amazing things in the modern history of the franchise. He would be gone from any other MLB team by now.

2) There's a lot of unsold tickets for the White Sox home opener. It will be interesting to see how many fans come out this year for Opening Day.

Yet we parted (or didn’t fight harder to keep them) with execs like Dan Evans, Kin Ng, Larry Himes, Dombrowski and Ron Schueler.

Seems Ron has done quite well away from the Sox...

 

“In 1991, Schueler returned to the White Sox as their general manager. As the general manager, Schueler was responsible for acquiring veterans such as Ellis Burks, Tim Raines, Bo Jackson, Julio Franco, and José Valentín. He was their general manager for ten years, stepping down on October 24, 2000 to become senior vice president of the franchise, a scout, a special consultant to chairman Jerry Reinsdorf, and an adviser to general manager Ken Williams.^[1] He worked in this new position through the 2002season.

Before the 2003 season, he was hired by the Chicago Cubs as a special assistant to the president and general manager. Two years later, the St. Louis Cardinals hired Schueler to be the special assistant to the general manager. He was part of the 2006 Cardinals organization that won the World Series. In 2008, the San Francisco Giants hired Schueler to be a scout and evaluate major and minor league players and acquisitions.^[4] In November 2009, The Washington Nationals hired Schueler as special adviser to GM Mike Rizzo.^[5]”

[Jerksticks]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

1) This is year 7 that Hahn has been the GM. Not one winning season and he still has his job. That he still is the GM has to be one of the amazing things in the modern history of the franchise. He would be gone from any other MLB team by now.

2) There's a lot of unsold tickets for the White Sox home opener. It will be interesting to see how many fans come out this year for Opening Day.

?

that only makes sense as a reasonable opinion if your only knowledge of the Sox is a sheet of final standings over the last decade.  Sure it looks like shit but in no way does that tell Hahn’s or the team’s story during the Hahn Dynasty

[maggliopipe]

What kind of deal is Kimbrel looking for? If they're going to dive into the free agent market at this point, I'd much prefer to lose a pick signing him than Kuechel. It's clear they've lost their opportunity to sign a game-changing free agent over the next couple years on the offensive side, so maybe they need to change plans and bolster the fuck out of the bullpen instead. A trio of Kimbrel, Colome, Herrara plus all the youngins might do the trick. Would something like 4/56 do it? 

[caulfield12]

54 minutes ago, maggliopipe said:

What kind of deal is Kimbrel looking for? If they're going to dive into the free agent market at this point, I'd much prefer to lose a pick signing him than Kuechel. It's clear they've lost their opportunity to sign a game-changing free agent over the next couple years on the offensive side, so maybe they need to change plans and bolster the fuck out of the bullpen instead. A trio of Kimbrel, Colome, Herrara plus all the youngins might do the trick. Would something like 4/56 do it? 

Sure, but it makes no sense to pay for a Kimbrel when his best two remaining 30+ years will be devoted to a non competitive team.

There are way too many holes at more important spots to cover first, and the White Sox have never devoted top dollar to closer recently, other than Koch and Robertson.

He makes a lot more sense to teams like the Red Sox, Cubs and Braves with suspect bullpens on a short-term deal.  If you’re going to win with a dominant bullpen it needs to be done from internally (cost controlled prospects), not at market FA rates.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

22 hours ago, Insp said:

The Sox have not signed any major free agents for quite some time.  If the Sox are to avoid losing fan support and become permanent also-rans to the Cubs, it is imperative that the team sign Dalllas Keuchel who is the single best free agent who is yet unsigned.  

Just look at the man's stats:  https://www.mlb.com/player/dallas-keuchel-572971  He was a 20 game winner as recently as 2015 and his lifetime ERA is 3.66.  His career W-L record is 76-63.

Add in the fact that he is only 31 years old and it's clear that Dallas Keuchel is the single best pitcher that the Sox could pick up.  Given the fact that pitching is the team's weakness, its a vital necessity for the White Sox to contact his agent and sign him right up.

What do you guys think?

What fan is gonna be excited about dallas keuchel?!

[Chisox378]

If we have the money I would definitely sign him very soon. He will bring fan interest for sure and just in case we somehow compete for playoffs....... He would be a big piece of that.