8 myths out

[southsider2k5]

 

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Greg will be definitely not be interested due to the "sabes" connection.   #1 must have been written by the Comiskey or Reinsdorf families or a PR firm to rehabilitate the image of spendthrift ownership.

Edited March 17, 2019 by caulfield12

[Jose Abreu]

It has always been problematic that the book most people base their knowledge of the scandal off of is actually historical fiction. 

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Greg will be definitely not be interested due to the "sabes" connection.   #1 must have been written by the Comiskey or Reinsdorf families or a PR firm to rehabilitate the image of spendthrift ownership.

I think I speak for all of Soxtalk when I say...

 

Wat?

[bmags]

Will be interesting. That recent ty Cobb bio showed how crazy it is where myths established in the era of more modern media could stick as fact for generations later. 

Basically if a movie or whatever was put out in the fifties or later with a bunch of tropes about a pre video time period that became the statement of record.

[southsider2k5]

26 minutes ago, bmags said:

Will be interesting. That recent ty Cobb bio showed how crazy it is where myths established in the era of more modern media could stick as fact for generations later. 

Basically if a movie or whatever was put out in the fifties or later with a bunch of tropes about a pre video time period that became the statement of record.

I am really excited about this series.  I love history in general,  but this sounds like it will be good.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Well we call Reinsdorf cheap and maybe 100 yrs from now someone will look ai payroll and also determine he wasn't cheap. But there are other ways the owner can be cheap.

[Insp]

7 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Greg will be definitely not be interested due to the "sabes" connection.   #1 must have been written by the Comiskey or Reinsdorf families or a PR firm to rehabilitate the image of spendthrift ownership.

There was one player who was an Ivy Leaguer who was paid $15,000 a year despite the fact that he was not the best player on the team.  Meanwhile, the two best players on the team, Eddie Cicotte and Shoeless Jackson got paid only $4,000 each.  Other players were also poorly paid.  That's the root cause of the discontent over the team's payroll.  If the team's payroll looks better compared to that of other teams, then that's because that one Ivy Leaguer got paid such an outlandish salary.  

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Well we call Reinsdorf cheap and maybe 100 yrs from now someone will look ai payroll and also determine he wasn't cheap. But there are other ways the owner can be cheap.

Just terrible at talent assessment, FA procurement and development post 2012.

[caulfield12]

Just now, Insp said:

There was one player who was an Ivy Leaguer who was paid $15,000 a year despite the fact that he was not the best player on the team.  Meanwhile, the two best players on the team, Eddie Cicotte and Shoeless Jackson got paid only $4,000 each.  Other players were also poorly paid.  That's the root cause of the discontent over the team's payroll.  If the team's payroll looks better compared to that of other teams, then that's because that one Ivy Leaguer got paid such an outlandish salary.  

And I’m guessing there was some type of family connection between the Comiskeys and that particular player...son in law, cousin, there has to be a plausible explanation I’m sure.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Just terrible at talent assessment, FA procurement and development post 2012.

And that lack of talent assessment is most likely due to not paying the right talent assessors nor paying to extend them into the areas that need to be reached.

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, Insp said:

There was one player who was an Ivy Leaguer who was paid $15,000 a year despite the fact that he was not the best player on the team.  Meanwhile, the two best players on the team, Eddie Cicotte and Shoeless Jackson got paid only $4,000 each.  Other players were also poorly paid.  That's the root cause of the discontent over the team's payroll.  If the team's payroll looks better compared to that of other teams, then that's because that one Ivy Leaguer got paid such an outlandish salary.  

Oops, Collins was a HoFer.

 

“As has been well documented, the White Sox team payroll was extremely top-heavy and the player with the biggest bankroll was future Hall of Fame second baseman Eddie Collins. Collins’s $15,000 salary placed him number 2 among American League players behind only Ty Cobb at $20,000. The college-educated Collins, nicknamed “Cocky” and for good reason, wasn’t well liked by some of his teammates. Perhaps this included a sense of jealousy at his high salary. Indeed, Collins’s salary was nearly double that of anyone else on the team. But that wasn’t unusual in 1919: In Detroit, Cobb was making three times as much as any other Tiger and Cleveland’s Tris Speaker ($13,125) was also making twice as much as the next-highest-paid Indian. 

But even if Collins’s salary was out of line with those of the rest of the team, the other White Sox stars were paid comparatively well, according to the Hall of Fame contract cards. Four other Chicago players ranked among the top 20 highest-paid players in the American League, including World Series fixers Eddie Cicotte ($8,000, number 8 in the AL), Buck Weaver ($7,250, number 11), and Shoeless Joe Jackson ($6,000, number 15). Another future Hall of Famer, catcher Ray Schalk, was the 13th-highest-paid player in the league at $7,083.

Eddie Cicotte’s salary deserves a closer look. The White Sox ace earned $8,000 in 1919 – which included a $5,000 base salary and a $3,000 performance bonus that Hoie says was a carryover from his 1918 contract (but unrelated to the mythical bonus “promised” to Cicotte if he won 30 games; that story is discussed elsewhere in this book). That also doesn’t include an additional $2,000 signing bonus paid to Cicotte before the start of the 1918 season, for a total compensation of $15,000 in 1918 and ’19. When he signed his contract, Cicotte had only one truly outstanding season (1917) to his credit. But he was the second-highest-paid pitcher in baseball behind the Washington Senators’ Walter Johnson, who had a much stronger track record. To put this in comparison, Eliot Asinof reported in Eight Men Out that Cincinnati Reds pitcher Dutch Ruether was “getting almost double (Cicotte’s) figure.” Ruether, whose sterling 1.82 ERA in 1919 matched Cicotte’s regular-season figure, was actually making $2,340. Talk about underpaid!”

 

https://jacobpomrenke.com/black-sox/1919-american-league-salaries/

[WBWSF]

I hope the White Sox have a Joe Jackson bobblehead night this season. It would create a ton of publicity for the franchise.

[Insp]

59 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I hope the White Sox have a Joe Jackson bobblehead night this season. It would create a ton of publicity for the franchise.

That's the common sense thing to do which is why the Sox won't do it.

[caulfield12]

Could have a series of Bobbleheads of all the key 1919 players...Collins, Jackson, Cicotte, Weaver, Schalk, Gandil, etc.

Invite surviving members to throw out first pitch.   Same with author Kinsella.

Field of Dreams T-shirt giveaway with sponsor donating shirts as well as money to preserving the actual field in Dyersville.

Try to get Busfield, Liotta, Madigan, Costner, James Earl Jones out to a game.  John Cusack for Eight Men Out....giveaway of original and/or movie CD’s.

Plant 5-6 rows of corn in the fencing area behind the outfield wall in LF.

Archibald Moonlight Graham Night when all nurses and doctors get in free...as well as students with school ID studying those fields.

White Sox play exhibition games in Dyersville against Brewers...or A affiliate Clinton LumberKings.

Edited March 18, 2019 by caulfield12

[Quin]

SABR is great at research, so this will be exciting to see. 

I wonder what the other myths will be.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Could have a series of Bobbleheads of all the key 1919 players...Collins, Jackson, Cicotte, Weaver, Schalk, Gandil, etc.

Invite surviving members to throw out first pitch.   Same with author Kinsella.

Field of Dreams T-shirt giveaway with sponsor donating shirts as well as money to preserving the actual field in Dyersville.

Try to get Busfield, Liotta, Madigan, Costner, James Earl Jones out to a game.  John Cusack for Eight Men Out....giveaway of original and/or movie CD’s.

Plant 5-6 rows of corn in the fencing area behind the outfield wall in LF.

Archibald Moonlight Graham Night when all nurses and doctors get in free...as well as students with school ID studying those fields.

White Sox play exhibition games in Dyersville against Brewers...or A affiliate Clinton LumberKings.

wow... These are amazing ideas. Someone get this guy in contact with our marketing department

[caulfield12]

10 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

wow... These are amazing ideas. Someone get this guy in contact with our marketing department

Read “Veeck as in Wreck”...we had to for sports admin class back in the day.  Just basic stuff.  

Was lucky to meet Veeck’s son Mike when he was running St. Paul Saints (@ winter meetings) and one of the Florida State League teams.  Cool guy, but he still didn’t quite have the same beloved human touch his father did.

[bmags]

The latest effectively wild interviews the writer/editor behind the project:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/effectively-wild-episode-1353-the-show-goes-on/

The most interesting part to me - apparently the whole reason the legal investigation began was due to a game a year later where the cubs threw a game, leading to it being picked up by legal authorities and then yadda yadda.

 

[WBWSF]

The so called Black Sox Scandal is a myth. The 8 members of the team were put on trial and were found not guilty.This is the USA. If your put on trial and found not guilty, you are innocent.  They were banned from MLB by a ruthless new Commmisioner (Judge Landis) who wanted to make an example out of the 8 players. Landis was also a Cubs fan who hated the White Sox. He had no use for the White Sox, none. Landis could have banned Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker who were involved in fixing games and he did nothing to them. In  1932 the bad guys on the northside of Chicago fired there manager (Rogers Hornsby)  because they thought he was throwing games because of his gambling habit. Landis looked the other way.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, WBWSF said:

The so called Black Sox Scandal is a myth. The 8 members of the team were put on trial and were found not guilty.This is the USA. If your put on trial and found not guilty, you are innocent.  They were banned from MLB by a ruthless new Commmisioner (Judge Landis) who wanted to make an example out of the 8 players. Landis was also a Cubs fan who hated the White Sox. He had no use for the White Sox, none. Landis could have banned Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker who were involved in fixing games and he did nothing to them. In  1932 the bad guys on the northside of Chicago fired there manager (Rogers Hornsby)  because they thought he was throwing games because of his gambling habit. Landis looked the other way.

Not guilty does not equal innocent.

[bmags]

Rules for your employer and laws for the government are two different things, and regardless, baseball moving away from its embedded gambling was probably a great thing for the sport even if it sucks for the white sox franchise.