Fernando Tatis Jr. thread

[chetkincaid]

This thread is going to make it suck to be a White Sox fan. 

[Quin]

4 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

Babe Ruth

Too fat.

[Quin]

Also, Pedro Martinez.

[ptatc]

16 minutes ago, VAfan said:

As of yesterday, here are Fernando Tatis, Jr's stats.

17 games, 76 PA, 67 AB, 15 R, 22 H, 4 2b, 1 3b, 8 HR (leading baseball), 18 RBI, 4 SB, 0 CS, .328 BA, .408 OBP, .776 SLG (leading baseball), 1.184 OPS, 229 OPS+ (leading baseball), 52 TB (leading baseball), 1.4 WAR.  He also has no errors so far at SS. He's 21 years old. 

One could argue that Tatis Jr. is the BEST PLAYER IN BASEBALL right now.

As my son said, if instead the question was - who would you pick first if you were starting a new franchise? - then Tatis Jr. would almost certainly be the guy. 

So, I apologize in posting this little rant, but every time I see this guy perform it just totally bums me out. And it keeps getting worse as he gets better. Because while the White Sox have some exciting young players and are on the upswing, the fact they don't ALSO have this guy may well leave us short.

I would be better if any of our young guys were BETTER than Tatis Jr. But they aren't, and because Tatis Jr is still YOUNGER than all of them, they aren't ever likely to be. 

FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU*******************************!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wait until he makes the HOF before you compare it to the Lou Brock trade or even the Randy Johnson trade. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by ptatc

[caulfield12]

First player in MLB history to 30 homers and 20 stolen bases...100 games into his career.

That's a startling one.

 

Let it be said for the record that I didn't start this particular thread, and kept the Jeff Passan/ESPN Special Column and Video in the MLB Catch-All, because surely reading and watching that would be even more inciting/provocative, if that's the right word.

That said, he's so good and so fun to watch, it's almost impossible not want to watch him as a fan of the sport of baseball....captured so well by Passan in both pieces.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Wait until he makes the HOF before you compare it to the Lou Brock trade or even the Randy Johnson trade. 

Marcus Semien is halfway there.  (Just kidding.)

 

And yeah, you're right.  I've maintained all along that the greatest risk was NOT non-performance or falling off like a Puig, but getting injured (last year, the back and leg muscle from stretching for a throw like Jean Claude Van Damme at second) because of the reckless abandon with which he plays the game, runs the bases, etc.

In the Passan video, it leads off with a story from when he was just 8 and did a back flip off the roof of his house in the Dominican and fractured his leg on landing.

[pcq]

No point in this except suffering. 

[Quin]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

First player in MLB history to 30 homers and 20 stolen bases...100 games into his career.

That's a startling one.

 

Let it be said for the record that I didn't start this particular thread, and kept the Jeff Passan/ESPN Special Column and Video in the MLB Catch-All, because surely reading and watching that would be even more inciting/provocative, if that's the right word.

That said, he's so good and so fun to watch, it's almost impossible not want to watch him as a fan of the sport of baseball....captured so well by Passan in both pieces.

Record: Padres fan Caulfield12, ex-Royals fan and Puigmania Captain, did not make this thread.

[bmags]

5 minutes ago, Quin said:

Also, Pedro Martinez.

Man the late 90s/early 00s when all the small market teams were just giving away their players to the big market teams was such a crappy era. That Kansas City had an outfielder at one point of Beltran, Damon, Dye and slowly wittled them all away. At least now they are smart enough not to wait until they are an expiring and getting true hauls for them.

[Quin]

Just now, bmags said:

Man the late 90s/early 00s when all the small market teams were just giving away their players to the big market teams was such a crappy era. That Kansas City had an outfielder at one point of Beltran, Damon, Dye and slowly wittled them all away. At least now they are smart enough not to wait until they are an expiring and getting true hauls for them.

Oof. I was talking about the first Pedro trade.

See, two Pedro trades are worse.

[bmags]

Just now, Quin said:

Oof. I was talking about the first Pedro trade.

See, two Pedro trades are worse.

I don't think the first one was that bad, Deshields was pretty good, and I'm a little more forgiving on pitchers who just seem to find it all at once. He was the ultimate outlier as a short RH pitcher who ended up being so durable. I mean the Scherzer trade to DET was awful in retrospect but at the time I didn't bat an eye. People thought Washington overpaid to acquire Scherzer, then overpaid him on his contract. Pitchers are too weird.

[poppysox]

34 minutes ago, VAfan said:

As of yesterday, here are Fernando Tatis, Jr's stats.

17 games, 76 PA, 67 AB, 15 R, 22 H, 4 2b, 1 3b, 8 HR (leading baseball), 18 RBI, 4 SB, 0 CS, .328 BA, .408 OBP, .776 SLG (leading baseball), 1.184 OPS, 229 OPS+ (leading baseball), 52 TB (leading baseball), 1.4 WAR.  He also has no errors so far at SS. He's 21 years old. 

One could argue that Tatis Jr. is the BEST PLAYER IN BASEBALL right now.

As my son said, if instead the question was - who would you pick first if you were starting a new franchise? - then Tatis Jr. would almost certainly be the guy. 

So, I apologize in posting this little rant, but every time I see this guy perform it just totally bums me out. And it keeps getting worse as he gets better. Because while the White Sox have some exciting young players and are on the upswing, the fact they don't ALSO have this guy may well leave us short.

I would be better if any of our young guys were BETTER than Tatis Jr. But they aren't, and because Tatis Jr is still YOUNGER than all of them, they aren't ever likely to be. 

FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU*******************************!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It does make me wonder how the teams talent evaluators could be this wrong...seems impossible.

[oldsox]

Sox got Billy Pierce for Aaron Robinson and got Nellie Fox for Joe Tipton.  Both trades on late 40's I believe.

[GreenSox]

It could have happened to anyone.  Thankfully, we have proven winners like Rickey  Renteria,  Rick Hahn and Jeremy Haber running the operation.

[Kyyle23]

Ffs

[Big Hurtin]

43 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Quin]

12 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don't think the first one was that bad, Deshields was pretty good, and I'm a little more forgiving on pitchers who just seem to find it all at once. He was the ultimate outlier as a short RH pitcher who ended up being so durable. I mean the Scherzer trade to DET was awful in retrospect but at the time I didn't bat an eye. People thought Washington overpaid to acquire Scherzer, then overpaid him on his contract. Pitchers are too weird.

Damn I didn't even think of Scherzer.

But I think we have to judge these deals on the same plane as Tatis - what it was at the time.

Go back to the Tatis thread and most of us were more pissed off that we were acquiring Shields than anything else. Tatis was viewed as a lotto ticket that unfortunately hit jackpot. People also seem to forget AJ Preller failed to disclose Shield's medicals.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/17554327/san-diego-padres-face-discipline-hiding-players-medical-information-mlb-database

The Marlins were allowed to reverse their deal. I'll never know why the Sox weren't.

[Quin]

11 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

It could have happened to anyone.  Thankfully, we have proven winners like Rickey  Renteria,  Rick Hahn and Jeremy Haber running the operation.

If Tatis were never traded you would be complaining about his strikeout numbers, complaining about how the team is obsessing over having a savior complex with him, and say they could never build around such a cocky, often injured player.

[SoxAce]

I'm almost 100% positive Tatis Jr. would still be in AAA (maybe even AA) right now. 

[hi8is]

I again plea that a board wide filter replace his name with “he who will not be named.”

@Chisoxfn - what say you? ?

Edited August 11, 2020 by hi8is

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, Quin said:

If Tatis were never traded you would be complaining about his strikeout numbers, complaining about how the team is obsessing over having a savior complex with him, and say they could never build around such a cocky, often injured player.

They would make the same arguments though about our 3 young core players in Robert, Jimenez and Moncada.

I'm not even 100% convinced he couldn't have played the entire second half, think 50% of it was tanking for draft position after they got buried in the playoff race.  There was never an actual X-ray provided.   He's obviously swinging the bat exactly the same as last season, maybe even more violently.   Also had a badly injured thumb from sliding (just like Robert) at the minor league level in 2018.

That said, anytime Moncada runs at full bore, Jimenez has a defensive play of any kind that forces him to move more than 15-20 feet and Robert is threatening to run into every single player other than the catcher...injury is one of the unfortunate words that can come to mind.

FWIW, cocky also has been used to describe Moncada and Robert.   That's a label that gets thrown out more often than not to describe minority athletes in most major sports.    Like it's a bad thing that Tom Brady is the most confident player on any football field, but, that's just leadership/moxie/character, right?

If you've watched him play more than a few times, though, cocky really isn't the best word to describe him.

Edited August 11, 2020 by caulfield12

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

12 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

I'm almost 100% positive Tatis Jr. would still be in AAA (maybe even AA) right now. 

I was waiting for someone to say this, but this times 100. On almost any other team in baseball, Tatis would not even be in the big leagues yet. The fact that people are calling it the worst trade in baseball is a joke for a couple reasons:

1. Tatis had not played a single game since signing as the 30th best international prospect in baseball for under 1 million dollars - nothing had changed, and every team in baseball missed on Tatis but for the Sox who then in turn swung and missed lol. 

2. This guy was traded for money, so please spare all the worst trade in baseball history hyperbole. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[caulfield12]

"The chaos centers Tatis Jr. Surrounded by his family, this is the one place where he doesn't have to be on -- where he's Bebo and not El Niño, the nickname baseball bestowed on him. The league recognizes Tatis as an anachronism: the marketable baseball player. Young, talented, handsome, bilingual, bursting with personality -- a unicorn. One of Tatis' agents, Dan Lozano of MVP Sports Group, has booked well over $1 billion in contracts representing Albert Pujols, Joey Votto, Manny Machado, Josh Donaldson and Jimmy Rollins. Never, he says, has he seen someone so ready-made for stardom, so simultaneously relatable and magnetic."

 

Here's the answer to those who say he's TOO COCKY.

Those same fans complain that Mike Trout is too "plain vanilla/aw shucks" and basically boring.   Heck, Manfred called out Trout for not being marketable enough.

Of course, it's the job of MLB to market their best players, not to expect them to change in a way that makes them more marketable.  It's a double-edged sword for a game that's become increasingly regional.

Edited August 11, 2020 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Some of Soxtalk has obviously never seen Frozen.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

"The chaos centers Tatis Jr. Surrounded by his family, this is the one place where he doesn't have to be on -- where he's Bebo and not El Niño, the nickname baseball bestowed on him. The league recognizes Tatis as an anachronism: the marketable baseball player. Young, talented, handsome, bilingual, bursting with personality -- a unicorn. One of Tatis' agents, Dan Lozano of MVP Sports Group, has booked well over $1 billion in contracts representing Albert Pujols, Joey Votto, Manny Machado, Josh Donaldson and Jimmy Rollins. Never, he says, has he seen someone so ready-made for stardom, so simultaneously relatable and magnetic."

 

Here's the answer to those who say he's TOO COCKY.

Those same fans complain that Mike Trout is too "plain vanilla/aw shucks" and basically boring.   Heck, Manfred called out Trout for not being marketable enough.

Of course, it's the job of MLB to market their best players, not to expect them to change in a way that makes them more marketable.  It's a double-edged sword for a game that's become increasingly regional.

MLB doesn't market anyone; Tatis will be no different. He plays in San Diego where 90% of the country isn't even awake to see him; Mike Trout has been dealing with that his entire career, and Tatis will be no different.

Manfred is a moron; he calls out the players not realizing the NBA and NFL market their players, not the other way around.