Fernando Tatis Jr. thread

[StrangeSox]

Tatis did nothing wrong, baseball dinosaurs go away

[flavum]

It’s a generational thing. I’m sure Renteria now, Ozzie 15 years ago, or Dusty Baker 20 years ago to a player not named Bonds, would have called for 3-0 take too in that situation.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

22 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Bryce harper has received his fair share of criticism too but for the most part it effects players from Latin culture more, as they play the game in a MORE FUN way.

And fun is often perceived as rubbing it in to the losers. There will always be people upset when they lose and happy when they win

 Its competitive juices. It's a way to get in the other teams head. It's not racism, it's more of a culture clash, The way it used to be vs. The way it's going to be. Out with the old in with the new.

 In multicultural sports it's always going to be that way. Even within cultures there are issues. Japanese baseballs unwritten rules were extremely conservative ,team oriented , crushed individuality.

Get over it and get used to it. It's just what happens when everything is ultra competitive. The losers always want the winners to be humble otherwise its seen as humiliating and emasculating.

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[StrangeSox]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And fun is often perceived as rubbing it in to the losers. There will always be people upset when they lose and happy when they win

 Its competitive juices. It's a way to get in the other teams head. It's not racism, it's more of a culture clash, The way it used to be vs. The way it's going to be. Out with the old in with the new.

 In multicultural sports it's always going to be that way. Even within cultures there are issues. Japanese baseballs unwritten rules were extremely conservative ,team oriented , crushed individuality.

Get over it and get used to it. It's just what happens when everything is ultra competitive. The losers always want the winners to be humble otherwise its seen as humiliating emasculating them.

 

 

 

The thing that's always made me roll my eyes is that pitchers have never had a problem making a big dramatic show after a huge strikeout or something, but then act like huge babies and try to physically injure a batter who dares celebrate a big hit.

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by StrangeSox

[ptatc]

50 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So tingler is shaving runs because he used to coach for the other team and you think that's an OK reason? He messed up? Lol this is the big leagues, managers shouldn't be giving take signs.

Regardless the players should listen to the managers.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And fun is often perceived as rubbing it in to the losers. There will always be people upset when they lose and happy when they win

 Its competitive juices. It's a way to get in the other teams head. It's not racism, it's more of a culture clash, The way it used to be vs. The way it's going to be. Out with the old in with the new.

 In multicultural sports it's always going to be that way. Even within cultures there are issues. Japanese baseballs unwritten rules were extremely conservative ,team oriented , crushed individuality.

Get over it and get used to it. It's just what happens when everything is ultra competitive. The losers always want the winners to be humble otherwise its seen as humiliating emasculating them.

 

 

 

This is all fine and dandy, but when there is a manager literally attempting to suppress his players stats and output because he has friends in the other clubhouse there's something seriously wrong.

As someone else noted already, there are incentives based on your production. You are paid based on what you do. You cannot afford to give at bats up in the name of sympathy. The pitcher you are facing is a professional, he has a job to do and if he can't do it he needs to find another profession.

[ptatc]

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And fun is often perceived as rubbing it in to the losers. There will always be people upset when they lose and happy when they win

 Its competitive juices. It's a way to get in the other teams head. It's not racism, it's more of a culture clash, The way it used to be vs. The way it's going to be. Out with the old in with the new.

 In multicultural sports it's always going to be that way. Even within cultures there are issues. Japanese baseballs unwritten rules were extremely conservative ,team oriented , crushed individuality.

Get over it and get used to it. It's just what happens when everything is ultra competitive. The losers always want the winners to be humble otherwise its seen as humiliating and emasculating.

 

 

 

The only issue would be if he ignored the manager. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Regardless the players should listen to the managers.

?

Because teams give FA contracts based on your grade from your manager and not your stats, right?

Get out of here with this. If my manager is shaving runs and trying to prevent me from producing because he has friends in the other dugout he can go on and get f*cked.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

?

Because teams give FA contracts based on your grade from your manager and not your stats, right?

Get out of here with this. If my manager is shaving runs and trying to prevent me from producing because he has friends in the other dugout he can go on and get f*cked.

This is wrong in so many levels. Why have a manager then if the players should do whatever they want? Let the players make their own lineups and the bullpen pitcher who runs the fastest to the mound get to pitch the next inning. 

[flavum]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

?

Because teams give FA contracts based on your grade from your manager and not your stats, right?

Get out of here with this. If my manager is shaving runs and trying to prevent me from producing because he has friends in the other dugout he can go on and get f*cked.

Enough with the “shaving runs” stuff. Tingler wasn’t trying to lose. He wasn’t trying to take the bat out of Tatis’s hands either. He was making Tatis take one pitch on 3-0. If he walked, they score a run, and Machado comes up with bases loaded, one out. 

I’m on the side of hitting 3-0, especially if you’re a good or great hitter. But holy overreaction. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Its a war out there and you are at the highest level of competition. You dont get to that level without being very competitive. Losing upsets us all. Look how we act in game threads and we are eating chips and getting fat on our couches. Imagine you're out there in the war zone and some pitcher buzzes your head

. The mound is the pedestal. You are the king of the hill up there. Every hit makes you look incompetent .Every K a God. It's your livelihood and the SOB at the plate is trying to not only hurt you but hurt your family. Its do or Die,  kill or be killed

Take no prisoners

Edited August 18, 2020 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[ptatc]

5 minutes ago, flavum said:

Enough with the “shaving runs” stuff. Tingler wasn’t trying to lose. He wasn’t trying to take the bat out of Tatis’s hands either. He was making Tatis take one pitch on 3-0. If he walked, they score a run, and Machado comes up with bases loaded, one out. 

I’m on the side of hitting 3-0, especially if you’re a good or great hitter. But holy overreaction. 

Exactly.  It was one pitch.

[caulfield12]

48 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Does that mean we can't talk about the 1919 White Sox either or is it too soon ?

Or 1967, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2008 (TCQ injury), 2010, 2012 and 2016?  
 

What about the year Dunn (2011) became front page news in The NY Times and WSJ?  1959 World Series?  Jerry Dybzynski?  Tito Landrum?   

[hogan873]

46 minutes ago, Tony said:

No, they don’t. That’s the point. There isn’t a valid point on both sides. It shouldn’t be much of an argument. 

The ONLY argument could be Tatis ignoring a sign. The call was stupid, but a player not doing what his coaching staff said is a problem. Handle it in the locker room, not in the media, isn’t that an “unwritten rule” too?

 I agree.  Giving the guy the take sign is dumb.  What other reason besides "Let's take it easy on the other guys" would he be given the take sign?  Not because there was risk of him getting an out.

[caulfield12]

I’m kind of shocked most are siding with Tatis here.

That said, hard to believe there’s an issue here at all if not on the road...if not the #11 (MLB leader over Trout) homer of the early season and especially if no existing “special relationship” between Tingler and Woodward?
 

Unless he reads the local newspaper pregame in team hotel, he's not going to be aware of all this context...as it’s doubtful Tingler specifically brought it up in any way like, “let’s get these guys, my personal pride’s on the line here facing my personal mentor in the sport, etc.”

Edited August 18, 2020 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

53 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Bryce harper has received his fair share of criticism too but for the most part it effects players from Latin culture more, as they play the game in a MORE FUN way.

Like Alex Colome, for example, haha...fwiw, flamboyant is perhaps the best word choice here, especially Cubans and Dominicans.

Edited August 18, 2020 by caulfield12

[ptatc]

7 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

 I agree.  Giving the guy the take sign is dumb.  What other reason besides "Let's take it easy on the other guys" would he be given the take sign?  Not because there was risk of him getting an out.

Managers give a take sign on 3-0 all the time. The reasons are too set up a bigger inning, make the pitcher work more, work on the patience of the hitter and many others. 

[Kyyle23]

That's my shortstop

[caulfield12]

Love TA.

115.5 MPH exit velocities are GOOD for the game, generally speaking.

[ptatc]

7 minutes ago, Tony said:

Except in this case......when both managers whole point is that the game was out of hand, so making the pitchers work more didn’t seem to part of the equation. Plus, if an “unwritten rule” is not to run up the score, shouldn’t the same rule apply to not making a sad pitcher “work more” during a blow out? You don’t see how stupid this all is?

Not saying it was a good decision. Just that managers have their reasons and the players need to do what the managers say.

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Not saying it was a good decision. Just that managers have their reasons and the players need to do what the managers say.

I agree with this. In this case the manager is wrong, but if you set up the "never do what manager says if I disagree" you are then asking the players to always be right on the field. 

[flavum]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Not saying it was a good decision. Just that managers have their reasons and the players need to do what the managers say.

And real talk here...if Tatis took a 3-0 fastball down broadway, nobody would have flinched. Is it outdated in today’s scoring environment? Yes, I’d say so. Star players should let it rip. But up big in the 8th, bases loaded, 3-0 count, that’s been a standard take for decades. People need to understand the human being part of this equation. Now, maybe Tatis “changed the game” last night. But if Tingler asks his backup catcher to take a pitch in the same situation, he should do it.

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, flavum said:

And real talk here...if Tatis took a 3-0 fastball down broadway, nobody would have flinched. Is it outdated in today’s scoring environment? Yes, I’d say so. Star players should let it rip. But up big in the 8th, bases loaded, 3-0 count, that’s been a standard take for decades. People need to understand the human being part of this equation. Now, maybe Tatis “changed the game” last night. But if Tingler asks his backup catcher to take a pitch in the same situation, he should do it.

Players and managers haven't always had a take on 3-0. Sometimes they did, sometimes the didn't.  But if the manger gives the take sign the player should listen. I guess I'm old but I still think players should listen to coaches and mangers.

[knightni]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Does that mean we can't talk about the 1919 White Sox either or is it too soon ?

I was talking about the Pale Hose Tatis trade whining thread.

Too soon.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

58 minutes ago, flavum said:

Enough with the “shaving runs” stuff. Tingler wasn’t trying to lose. He wasn’t trying to take the bat out of Tatis’s hands either. He was making Tatis take one pitch on 3-0. If he walked, they score a run, and Machado comes up with bases loaded, one out. 

I’m on the side of hitting 3-0, especially if you’re a good or great hitter. But holy overreaction. 

No, he was very clearly not trying to score the most runs possible. That's literally what this entire issue is about.

Tingler didn't want Tatis to try his hardest to score the most runs because that's disrespectful in his eyes. Had he missed a sign and that was teh only issue, his manager wouldn't be publicly calling him out.

Oh and NOT TRYING to maximize your runs is the very definition of shaving runs.