GameThread: White Sox (Nova) @ Indians (Clevinger)

[chitownsportsfan]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You think Rick Renteria isn't good in the locker room? That's literally the only thing I think Rick is good at. He's the only latin/spanish speaking manager in baseball on a team full of Hispanics. Rick is a players coach.

As for this angst about Yoan hitting first instead of second - it's pointless. Yoan will see just as many fastballs leading off as he will hitting second, and even if he attacks earlier in the count this year he'll always be a naturally patient hitter. He's attacking earlier in the count this year because he was TOO patient last year and MLB pitchers attacked him with the first pitch, but by years end he'll be top 50 in pitches/pa because that's who he naturally is. Walking is one of yoan's strengths - he's not going to suddenly become one of the most aggressive hitters in baseball. If Yoan has turned a corner this year, and has begun to figure it out, it won't matter if he hits first or second. 

The only way I have of judging if a manager is good in the locker room is if players have good years for him consistently because they are relaxed and yet ready to play  That hasn't happened AT ALL and the team constantly looks completely out of sorts -- like we've seen with all the collisions already.

For a so called "Latin Whisperer" the latin guys on the team under him haven't performed that well.  

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

9 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

The only way I have of judging if a manager is good in the locker room is if players have good years for him consistently because they are relaxed and yet ready to play  That hasn't happened AT ALL and the team constantly looks completely out of sorts -- like we've seen with all the collisions already.

For a so called "Latin Whisperer" the latin guys on the team under him haven't performed that well.  

A players production really says nothing about their comfort in a clubhouse. The White Sox have not had players speaking anonymously in a negative manner against the team. You don't hear of fights or mutiny in the locker room. These guys seem to really like each other - which doesn't really mean much, but it's better than a team that sucks and hate each other I guess. The players don't openly question his decisions either. 

To use an example; the White Sox players openly questioned Ventura and the organization, and were critical of both in the media. We haven't seen any signs of that with Rick.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

A players production really says nothing about their comfort in a clubhouse. The White Sox have not had players speaking anonymously in a negative manner against the team. You don't hear of fights or mutiny in the locker room. These guys seem to really like each other - which doesn't really mean much, but it's better than a team that sucks and hate each other I guess. The players don't openly question his decisions either. 

That's fine but play better baseball.  Guys can be "too comfortable" -- see Robin Ventura.  Sloppy fundamentals and execution have plagued Ricky's teams his entire tenure.  I'll tell you one thing: it's easier to swap out the manager than the 25 man roster.  If the Sox are floundering in July I'd hope and expect that they make a move towards the future and get a real manager in here.  I continue to think Girardi would be great for the young guys.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

That's fine but play better baseball.  Guys can be "too comfortable" -- see Robin Ventura.  Sloppy fundamentals and execution have plagued Ricky's teams his entire tenure.  I'll tell you one thing: it's easier to swap out the manager than the 25 man roster.  If the Sox are floundering in July I'd hope and expect that they make a move towards the future and get a real manager in here.  I continue to think Girardi would be great for the young guys.

As I said, I agree it means nothing in the W/L column but it's better than everyone hating each other I guess. 

Ventura did not have control of his locker room at all. He had his best player cutting up jerseys in the locker room before a game. He had the team ripping his decisions in the media. As a fan, that was more embarrassing and harder to watch than just sucking but liking each other. 

A good locker room is one of those things that may be able to help a really good team overcome some turbulence and struggles throughout the course of a year, but it has next to zero impact on a bad team.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Quin]

What the hell is that lineup?

[Dick Allen]

29 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You think Rick Renteria isn't good in the locker room? That's literally the only thing I think Rick is good at. He's the only latin/spanish speaking manager in baseball on a team full of Hispanics. Rick is a players coach.

As for this angst about Yoan hitting first instead of second - it's pointless. Yoan will see just as many fastballs leading off as he will hitting second, and even if he attacks earlier in the count this year he'll always be a naturally patient hitter. He's attacking earlier in the count this year because he was TOO patient last year and MLB pitchers attacked him with the first pitch, but by years end he'll be top 50 in pitches/pa because that's who he naturally is. Walking is one of yoan's strengths - he's not going to suddenly become one of the most aggressive hitters in baseball. If Yoan has turned a corner this year, and has begun to figure it out, it won't matter if he hits first or second. 

Where did you come up with this?

[Buehrle>Wood]

Alex Cora definitely speaks spanish.

[flavum]

Charlie Montoyo, Dave Martinez...

[Boopa1219]

Raul Ibanez speaks Spanish too. 

[Quin]

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

 

Well, it's certainly an explanation.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Alex Cora definitely speaks spanish.

Yes, I should have said when he was hired. Other managers have now joined him.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Joshua Strong said:

Raul Ibanez speaks Spanish too. 

Yes, but he's not a coach so that doesn't really matter. I speak Spanish too but I'm not a MLB manager so I thought that tidbit would be irrelevant to the thread jaja.

[Dick Allen]

Sloppy play and poor fundamentals are also a sign of bad players. I am not a Renteria fan, but other than bunting, and some of his bullpen use, I don't see how he's at fault for badness like when guys air mail a throw to a wrong base. 

[chitownsportsfan]

4 minutes ago, Quin said:

Well, it's certainly an explanation.

Or he's a guy with a timing mechanism and a long ass swing that now has a scouting report on him.

Edited April 1, 2019 by chitownsportsfan

[bmags]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Or he's a guy with a timing mechanism and a long ass swing that now has a scouting report on him.

No no no. Because he is now in front of Abreu, it's a rule that you will now get fastballs. Despite the fact that you will more likely get him out on offspeed pitches, you should throw fastballs because you are scared of the batter behind him, and should throw him the pitches that make it more likely he will hit them and get on base.

[Dick Allen]

Palka has always had that flash in the pan vibe to me, and that flash was home runs in very meaningless games. He can hit it a long way and hard, but I doubt he ever duplicates what he did last year. It's worth a shot to see considering the White Sox current position, but chances are he is a guy who shows you why he was waived in the first place.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Sloppy play and poor fundamentals are also a sign of bad players. I am not a Renteria fan, but other than bunting, and some of his bullpen use, I don't see how he's at fault for badness like when guys air mail a throw to a wrong base. 

This is a discussion we've had ad nauseum before, so I'm just going to say this one time and you can rip me all you want for it in replies. In 2012 we saw a fundamentally sound White Sox team that, in many cases, featured the same players who in 2011 and 2013 were fundamental disasters. They spent 2012 throwing to the correct base, and in the other seasons those same players had no idea what they were doing. In my opinion, that was the difference between that team being above .500 and far below .500. Furthermmore, in my opinion that was attributed mostly to a manager who, in 2012, prioritized players making proper decisions and proper throws as something that was practiced heavily in the spring and not just assumed to be something that players were familiar with and ready to do. 

[chitownsportsfan]

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Sloppy play and poor fundamentals are also a sign of bad players. I am not a Renteria fan, but other than bunting, and some of his bullpen use, I don't see how he's at fault for badness like when guys air mail a throw to a wrong base. 

Def true.  We need better players, especially in the OF.

[Boopa1219]

I don’t like shuffling Moncada around to get Palka going. I think that’s terribly stupid. Moncada is more important to the team’s future and he looked really good in KC. 

[Boopa1219]

12 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, but he's not a coach so that doesn't really matter. I speak Spanish too but I'm not a MLB manager so I thought that tidbit would be irrelevant to the thread jaja.

In title no, but he’s probably a future manager in the bigs and runs the Dodgers farm system

[mqr]

11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Sloppy play and poor fundamentals are also a sign of bad players. I am not a Renteria fan, but other than bunting, and some of his bullpen use, I don't see how he's at fault for badness like when guys air mail a throw to a wrong base. 

He did plenty fine with the bullpen in 17 when it was actually god fwiw

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

No no no. Because he is now in front of Abreu, it's a rule that you will now get fastballs. Despite the fact that you will more likely get him out on offspeed pitches, you should throw fastballs because you are scared of the batter behind him, and should throw him the pitches that make it more likely he will hit them and get on base.

I understand your point completely, but command of off-speed stuff is frequently lesser than command of fastballs - there are obviously exceptions. And Palka isn't dangerous enough to avoid throwing him any pitch, so rather than walk a bad baseball player you may go with the pitch you have the most command with. Guys in front of good hitters factually see more fastballs. My issue with batting Palka second is he blows, and you're giving the second most at bats in the game to a guy who sucks.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

22 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Where did you come up with this?

When he was hired, this was a fact. 

Since then, as has been pointed out - Davie was hired, as was Cora and this year Montoyo but at the time he was the only latin manager in baseball and that was just in 2017.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

In title no, but he’s probably a future manager in the bigs and runs the Dodgers farm system

He's a special assistant to Friedman - he does not run the Dodgers farm system.

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

When he was hired, this was a fact. 

Since then, as has been pointed out - Davie was hired, as was Cora and this year Montoyo but at the time he was the only latin manager in baseball and that was just in 2017.

Dusty Baker, Mike Matheny, Mike Scoscia, and Joe Maddon were all managing when he was hired, and although none are Latin, they all speak Spanish fluently.