Cubs thread 2k19

[Harry Chappas]

16 hours ago, Tony said:

So what does Jed Hoyer do???

Was in news last week that his LP home is on the market.

Hoyer is a Theo puppet that handed him Rizzo I'm sure in Boston he will trade Betts for Horner, Happ and Schwarber

[Harry Chappas]

Sucks Yelich got hurt as the Brewers got some bullpen help back.  All of a sudden AZ is struggling.

That series in NY was huge in keeping cub afloat.

 

[NWINFan]

Since it has been 50 years, some Cub fans are looking back at the "iconic" team of 1969, the team that won nothing. In the third game of the Padre series, the Cubs looked like the 1969 team down the stretch.  In the second Rizzo led off the inning by banging one off the right field wall. The ball got away from the right fielder, and Rizzo hustled out a triple on a fairly close play at third. But then the next batter hit a medium fly to center. Rizzo could have scored, but he didn't move off third. The throw from center was short and off line. Rizzo made an aggressive play to get his triple risking being thrown out at third. But he didn't risk getting thrown out at home when he had a better chance. He never scored. It was another example  of the Cubs looking like the down the 1969 stretch Cubs, looking for ways to lose. They still may get the second wild card, but I can't see them going deep into the playoffs. Right now they look like they are feeling the heat of expectations. It was almost easier when they were lovable losers.

[pcq]

On 9/11/2019 at 1:28 PM, 35thstreetswarm said:

He'll surely join Ian Happ and David Bote in the Hall of Fame

Wondering if you could build a lineup around Gleybar Soler Eloy and Lamaiheu. Just a thought. 

[almagest]

2 hours ago, pcq said:

Wondering if you could build a lineup around Gleybar Soler Eloy and Lamaiheu. Just a thought. 

Gleyber Eloy and LeMaheiu for sure. Not terrible to have a guy who can hit 40+ HRs in right field if he's one of your middle of the road players either, assuming this isn't an outlier year for Soler.

[Dominikk85]

Does anyone else epstein did a terrible job the last 3 years? He did a great job building that core and even a few good signings but the last years were pretty bad.

-he flopped about 250+m in free agent signings: heyward, darvish, chatwood, morrow, davis

- he gutted the farm:  no gm traded away more talent. You could argue the Chapman deal worked as he won a ws but the quintana trade didn't work all that well. 

Sure he brought a historical ws to chicago but what was so different from dombrowski who also won a WS and gutted the farm?

[Jerksticks]

15 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

Does anyone else epstein did a terrible job the last 3 years? He did a great job building that core and even a few good signings but the last years were pretty bad.

-he flopped about 250+m in free agent signings: heyward, darvish, chatwood, morrow, davis

- he gutted the farm:  no gm traded away more talent. You could argue the Chapman deal worked as he won a ws but the quintana trade didn't work all that well. 

Sure he brought a historical ws to chicago but what was so different from dombrowski who also won a WS and gutted the farm?

He outspent every other team to big a World Series.  They laid out almost half a billion in total contracts to win the first one and have gone over 3/4 billion to try to sustain it.  

Think about how much a half billion is.  That’s the amount of money they promised to win that World Series.  There’s no skill in that

[Dominikk85]

52 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

He outspent every other team to big a World Series.  They laid out almost half a billion in total contracts to win the first one and have gone over 3/4 billion to try to sustain it.  

Think about how much a half billion is.  That’s the amount of money they promised to win that World Series.  There’s no skill in that

He also built a pretty

impressive home grown Core with bryant,  schwarber, baez, contreras and Russell. First FA signings also weren't bad with zobrist, lester and lackey but then it went downhill after 2017.

Still a good team but in 2016 writers were talking about a "best of all time " kind of dynasty but this didn't really happen as some signings flopped and of course they were unable to develope any pitchers so they needed to trade their farm every season.

 

They are still good but Dodgers clearly overtook them as the best nl team so not the anticipated dynasty

[Jerksticks]

1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

He also built a pretty

impressive home grown Core with bryant,  schwarber, baez, contreras and Russell. First FA signings also weren't bad with zobrist, lester and lackey but then it went downhill after 2017.

Still a good team but in 2016 writers were talking about a "best of all time " kind of dynasty but this didn't really happen as some signings flopped and of course they were unable to develope any pitchers so they needed to trade their farm every season.

 

They are still good but Dodgers clearly overtook them as the best nl team so not the anticipated dynasty

Ehh.  Contreras and Baez were Hendry’s guys.  Bryant was a layup pick at #2- even I couldn’t mess that up.  

Schwarber & Russell are pretty one dimensional or platoon fringey busts.  

They got super lucky it was a down year in the league, the super teams were a year away, almost every pitcher on their roster had a career year, and Cleveland was decimated by injuries.   

 

[fathom]

The Pirates effort this weekend has been horrendous.  

[flavum]

4-3 Pirates, but actually winning the game is probably too much to ask for. 

[fathom]

46 minutes ago, flavum said:

4-3 Pirates, but actually winning the game is probably too much to ask for. 

I’ve never seen a team throw away an appeal play like that. 

[kitekrazy]

On 9/14/2019 at 4:48 PM, Jerksticks said:

Ehh.  Contreras and Baez were Hendry’s guys.  Bryant was a layup pick at #2- even I couldn’t mess that up.  

Schwarber & Russell are pretty one dimensional or platoon fringey busts.  

They got super lucky it was a down year in the league, the super teams were a year away, almost every pitcher on their roster had a career year, and Cleveland was decimated by injuries.   

 

That's how most series are won by career years.   Dynasties just don't exist in baseball except for division titles and playoff births.  

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, kitekrazy said:

That's how most series are won by career years.   Dynasties just don't exist in baseball except for division titles and playoff births.  

Rather than ripping the Cubs for being in the top 10% of performing teams...let's also gawk at the Dodgers and Astros. The Dodgers still haven't won a world series, but their player development has allowed them to be on a level that no other teams have reached. The Astros won their title and they are still, 2 years later, hanging right there with the best in the league again - without the type of signings the Cubs kept making to try to stay in the race as their roster started to weaken. 

The Cubs are in what looks like a normal rebuild - they peaked once, but have slowly fallen off from that peak. That's how most rebuilds go and you're lucky if you finish it off - Cleveland, KC, San Francisco - all peaked, 2 of them won their titles, and they've withered since then. We saw the Yankees and previous red sox teams do the same thing. Houston lasting for 3 years like this is already some next-level S***.

[caulfield12]

Would they be better off with Torres, Soler, Jimenez, Cease, Candelario, LeMahieu, etc.?

 

“In hindsight, (the Soler/W.Davis deal) was yet another questionable move by Theo Epstein especially in light of his early plan to prioritize hitting over pitching when embarking on the Cubs rebuild after replacing Jim Hendry. The consequence was dealing 2B/SS Gleyber Torres and OF Jorge Soler for two “rental” closers. 

The 3 months they acquired in Aroldis Chapman for Torres at the summer trade deadline in 2016 helped net the Cubs a World Series title. The one year of Wade Davis for Soler the following offseason aided the Cubs to the postseason in 2017 but didn’t result in a repeat title.

Add in the 3-1/2 years of team control the Cubs acquired in SP Jose Quintana (assuming they pick up his 2020 team option) for OF Eloy Jimenez and SP Dylan Cease in the 2017 mid-July trade and the Cubs now appear to have acquired 5 years of pitching for a couple of decades of quality players the team could have used now and going forward. The jury is still out on 2019 and 2020 in regards to postseason outcome but if the Cubs fail to land another World Series title in that time frame these deals might be be construed as a hefty price to pay, especially if these former Cub prospects develop into perennial All-Stars and help contribute to future titles of their own.”

[Balta1701]

In general they would be better off had they not made those moves, but they also might have missed the playoffs in 2018 had they not acquired Jose Quintana, and they may not have even made the world series in 2016, let alone stayed in it, had they not thrown Chapman out there so heavily. 

That's an open question that for the White Sox it would be nice if we actually had to answer it someday. If I were the Cubs, I might not have done the Darvish deal, but I'd almost certainly have made the Chapman and Quintana deals. My Cubs team was far worse in 2020 than it would have been had I not done those deals, but at the same time I have a world series trophy. 

IMO, win your title, then do everything you can to stay competitive for a few more years and give yourself another shot or two. If you don't win another, at least you get several more playoff appearances. Then, at some point, you have to decide whether to extend everyone, start trading everyone, or do last-gasps and then let guys you can't pay walk as free agents. 

Houston has sorta avoided this issue but even they lost a little this year when Morton left, and next year Cole departs, so eventually attrition may well get them too.

[raBBit]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

In general they would be better off had they not made those moves, but they also might have missed the playoffs in 2018 had they not acquired Jose Quintana, and they may not have even made the world series in 2016, let alone stayed in it, had they not thrown Chapman out there so heavily. 

That's an open question that for the White Sox it would be nice if we actually had to answer it someday. If I were the Cubs, I might not have done the Darvish deal, but I'd almost certainly have made the Chapman and Quintana deals. My Cubs team was far worse in 2020 than it would have been had I not done those deals, but at the same time I have a world series trophy. 

IMO, win your title, then do everything you can to stay competitive for a few more years and give yourself another shot or two. If you don't win another, at least you get several more playoff appearances. Then, at some point, you have to decide whether to extend everyone, start trading everyone, or do last-gasps and then let guys you can't pay walk as free agents. 

Houston has sorta avoided this issue but even they lost a little this year when Morton left, and next year Cole departs, so eventually attrition may well get them too.

Houston acquired Cole before Morton was gone.

Houson then acquired Greinke before Cole leaves. 

They haven't lost anything yet. Cole is a little better than Grienke so they'll take a down tick in production next year. 

[soxfan49]

Who was the poster who argued with me about Kimbrel still being good right before the Cubs signed him?

[Moan4Yoan]

18 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Who was the poster who argued with me about Kimbrel still being good right before the Cubs signed him?

Which of Kimbrel’s stats were you going by from last year to lead you to your guess that he would be bad with the Cubs?  Or was it based on missing Spring Training and the first half of the season?

Nice choke job by the Cubs.

[SoxAce]

Thank you Matt Carpenter. 

[soxfan49]

14 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Which of Kimbrel’s stats were you going by from last year to lead you to your guess that he would be bad with the Cubs?  Or was it based on missing Spring Training and the first half of the season?

Nice choke job by the Cubs.

It was the fact that Cora stopped using him in the World Series. Teams don't stop using great closers if they're truly great. They obviously knew something

[Moan4Yoan]

2 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

It was the fact that Cora stopped using him in the World Series. Teams don't stop using great closers if they're truly great. They obviously knew something

Eh, that’s a pretty small sample size.  David Price sucked in the postseason before he finally had success and helped the Red Sox win a World Series.

[Sarava]

6 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Eh, that’s a pretty small sample size.  David Price sucked in the postseason before he finally had success and helped the Red Sox win a World Series.

It was a talking point while he wasn't getting signed. The draft pick compensation, combined with his diminished effectiveness later in 2018.

[NWINFan]

If the Cubs find a way to get into the playoffs, I don't see them going far. They make bonehead plays and many times don't hit with runners in scoring in position. And all this stupid hype around Rizzo is making me sick. Please, St. Louis, sweep this series and end this stupid nonsense.

[soxfan49]

3 hours ago, Sarava said:

It was a talking point while he wasn't getting signed. The draft pick compensation, combined with his diminished effectiveness later in 2018.

^^^