ALONSO LINEUP EFFECT

[ChiSox59]

People really struggle to spell such an easy name.  A-L-O-N-S-O.  No Z.  1 A.  

Alonso is a fine baseball player.  He isn't the problem.  I hope he plays a lot of 1B when he is in the lineup - he is much better than Abreu over there. We haven't faced a LH starter yet, so I am curious to see what RickyBoy does with the lineup when we do.  I guess we'll find out tomorrow.  Hopefully Alonso is on the bench, because they're going to need to manage his PA with that 550 PA vesting option at $9M.  I guess its not the end of the world if he's around next season, but I'd rather upgrade at DH/1B with Castellanos.  Smoak could be another option that should be much cheaper.  

Maybe a lineup like this against LHP:

Leury 2B, Moncada 3B, Abreu 1B, Castillo C, Jimenez LF, Anderson SS, Rondon DH, Cordell RF, Engel CF

Still pretty gross. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

20 minutes ago, bmags said:

They should have given them a good player back then too. Really doubled down on making their rival better.

You all are the ones saying the trade helped the Indians a bunch. I don’t think it did as I’ve stated above but, if it did, what’s the big deal? It only helps them this year, a year in which the Sox are not contending and actually helps the Sox long term if the Indians were otherwise planning to trade Kluber last winter...

[bmags]

Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

You all are the ones saying the trade helped the Indians a bunch. I don’t think it did as I’ve stated above but, if it did, what’s the big deal? It only helps them this year, a year in which the Sox are not contending and actually helps the Sox long term if the Indians were otherwise planning to trade Kluber last winter...

I guess I just have higher standards for white sox organizational moves than "well, it's not going to hurt that much".

[Lillian]

33 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

People really struggle to spell such an easy name.  A-L-O-N-S-O.  No Z.  1 A.  

Alonso is a fine baseball player.  He isn't the problem.  I hope he plays a lot of 1B when he is in the lineup - he is much better than Abreu over there. We haven't faced a LH starter yet, so I am curious to see what RickyBoy does with the lineup when we do.  I guess we'll find out tomorrow.  Hopefully Alonso is on the bench, because they're going to need to manage his PA with that 550 PA vesting option at $9M.  I guess its not the end of the world if he's around next season, but I'd rather upgrade at DH/1B with Castellanos.  Smoak could be another option that should be much cheaper.  

Maybe a lineup like this against LHP:

Leury 2B, Moncada 3B, Abreu 1B, Castillo C, Jimenez LF, Anderson SS, Rondon DH, Cordell RF, Engel CF

Still pretty gross. 

I agree that he should not be in the lineup against lefties. He's not very good, versus LHP and they do need to limit his playing time.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

28 minutes ago, bmags said:

I guess I just have higher standards for white sox organizational moves than "well, it's not going to hurt that much".

The move helped the White Sox this year (if not in the wins column, it at least provides Yoan and Eloy with additional support at the top of the lineup and perhaps a mentor which is more important than wins/losses this year). The move may or may not have helped the Indians this year. If it did help the Indians a little bit, which again I’m still doubtful it did, then what’s the big concern? If the Sox were legit division contenders it would be a completely different story but they’re not. For these reasons, I am fine with the acquisition of Yonder Alonso.

[ChiSox59]

The storyline that the Sox did the Indians this huge favor by taking a guy making $8M off their hands (maybe a couple mill than he'd get on the open market) for minimal return is so overblown around here.  

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

The storyline that the Sox did the Indians this huge favor by taking a guy making $8M off their hands (maybe a couple mill than he'd get on the open market) for minimal return is so overblown around here.  

Yep and that’s all I was getting at. The other thing that is overblown around here is how bad of a fit he is for this current roster. Alonso is not the bad fit, Palka is. It’s really that simple.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Yep and that’s all I was getting at. The other thing that is overblown around here is how bad of a fit he is for this current roster. Alonso is not the bad fit, Palka is. It’s really that simple.

I mean, it makes sense to give Palka at bats right now though.  Palka was likely going to be in AAA if the Sox got MM.  But since they didn't, and this season is now about 98% chance to another rebuilding year instead of something closer to say 80%, Palka should be given every opportunity to see if be can become a future piece.  We all know Yonder Alonso is not a future piece of the puzzle.  He is a guy that will be on the 2019 White Sox, but that is about it.  The fact that Alonso and Abreu are both on the roster pigeon holes Palka into the OF.  But honestly, in a season where we'er likely to lose more than we win, I am fine with it. 

Palka has been straight awful to start the year (and in ST too), but it doesn't really make sense to sacrifice his at bats for a guy like Alonso considering where the Sox are in this process.  Thankfully for now, we can get Palka his ABs in the OF. 

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

That $6m specifically?  Maybe, maybe not on its own, but along with a few other moves? Definitely. They spent $44 million in new money this year, not counting offering arbitration to Abreu, and I can think of at least 1 player they missed on by exactly $50 million. 

Even if they saved that money, they wouldn't have spent it on Machado. They were adamant that they weren't going to go for a guaranteed 300 million and more 10 years. It had nothing to do with available money. it was the line they drew in the sand.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I guess I just have higher standards for white sox organizational moves than "well, it's not going to hurt that much".

That's what you get during a rebuild. the only thing that matters this year is the development of the players that will be here when they are ready to win. None of the players in this discussion matter to this at all.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Even if they saved that money, they wouldn't have spent it on Machado. They were adamant that they weren't going to go for a guaranteed 300 million and more 10 years. It had nothing to do with available money. it was the line they drew in the sand.

They weren't going to that dollar amount because they needed to keep funds free to waste on players like this. 

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

They weren't going to that dollar amount because they needed to keep funds free to waste on players like this. 

lol

[chitown87]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

They weren't going to that dollar amount because they needed to keep funds free to waste on players like this. 

This is simply not correct.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

11 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I mean, it makes sense to give Palka at bats right now though.  Palka was likely going to be in AAA if the Sox got MM.  But since they didn't, and this season is now about 98% chance to another rebuilding year instead of something closer to say 80%, Palka should be given every opportunity to see if be can become a future piece.  We all know Yonder Alonso is not a future piece of the puzzle.  He is a guy that will be on the 2019 White Sox, but that is about it.  The fact that Alonso and Abreu are both on the roster pigeon holes Palka into the OF.  But honestly, in a season where we'er likely to lose more than we win, I am fine with it. 

Palka has been straight awful to start the year (and in ST too), but it doesn't really make sense to sacrifice his at bats for a guy like Alonso considering where the Sox are in this process.  Thankfully for now, we can get Palka his ABs in the OF. 

But here’s the thing. Palka legitimately has no position in the field. To carry a DH only guy, that guy needs to post a wRC+ of 130 or better. The odds of a 27 year Palka becoming that are slim to none when you consider his average walk rate and high strikeout rate (34.1% last year!) The odds of a productive Alonso returning a 40 FV prospect are greater than Palka turning into someone worth carrying on the future roster. Just my opinion of course.

Edited April 4, 2019 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

But here’s the thing. Palka legitimately has no position in the field. To carry a DH only guy, that guy needs to post a wRC+ of 130 or better. The odds of a 27 year Palka becoming that are slim to none when you consider his average walk rate and high strikeout. The odds of a productive Alonso returning a 40 FV prospect are greater than Palka turning into someone worth carrying on the future roster. Just my opinion of course.

Palka hit 27 dingers and put up an OPS+ of 111 in 450 PA last season.  He is interesting enough to give at bats to this season.  He is obviously a flawed player, but he is the exact type of player that winning teams have on their roster and platoon appropriately.  There is no good reason to not give him at bats this season.  

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Palka hit 27 dingers and put up an OPS+ of 111 in 450 PA last season.  He is interesting enough to give at bats to this season.  He is obviously a flawed player, but he is the exact type of player that winning teams have on their roster and platoon appropriately.  There is no good reason to not give him at bats this season.  

As I'm fairly fond of pointing out - counting Alonso this year, the White Sox will have spent over $90 million on their DH position over the last 10 seasons, and over $200 million to cover DH/1b over the last 10 seasons, and about half of that money has been abjectly awful spending. If all Palka does is "bat 6th, hit home runs against righties, and be cheap for 3 years", that's a far better result than throwing $10 million a year at that position again. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

15 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Palka hit 27 dingers and put up an OPS+ of 111 in 450 PA last season.  He is interesting enough to give at bats to this season.  He is obviously a flawed player, but he is the exact type of player that winning teams have on their roster and platoon appropriately.  There is no good reason to not give him at bats this season.  

I guess what I’m saying is last year’s performance is his peak in my opinion. And that’s nowhere near good enough for a DH only type.

Of course there are always the anomalies like JDM that are late bloomers but at least JDM could play the outfield more competently than Palka in his early years. Even still, a terrible rebuilding team like the Astros simply gave up on him despite him putting up huge numbers in the minors. Maybe Palka will prove me wrong but I’m not holding my breath.

Edited April 4, 2019 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

As I'm fairly fond of pointing out - counting Alonso this year, the White Sox will have spent over $90 million on their DH position over the last 10 seasons, and over $200 million to cover DH/1b over the last 10 seasons, and about half of that money has been abjectly awful spending. If all Palka does is "bat 6th, hit home runs against righties, and be cheap for 3 years", that's a far better result than throwing $10 million a year at that position again. 

Then let’s throw $20M AAV at the position this winter for an actual productive player starting next season....

[ptatc]

47 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

They weren't going to that dollar amount because they needed to keep funds free to waste on players like this. 

I don't think so. That was their excuse but I don't buy it. they just weren't going to give the guarateed highest contract of all time with 10/300. 

[chitownsportsfan]

32 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I guess what I’m saying is last year’s performance is his peak in my opinion. And that’s nowhere near good enough for a DH only type.

Of course there are always the anomalies like JDM that are late bloomers but at least JDM could play the outfield more competently than Palka in his early years. Even still, a terrible rebuilding team like the Astros simply gave up on him despite him putting up huge numbers in the minors. Maybe Palka will prove me wrong but I’m not holding my breath.

Palka shouldn't be on the roster and Alonso is a solid player -- both are true.   It's frustrating that once again the Sox have too many shitty DH types on the 25 man but that's not Alonso's fault as he's actually a crumulent 1B/DH.

 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Palka shouldn't be on the roster and Alonso is a solid player -- both are true.   It's frustrating that once again the Sox have too many shitty DH types on the 25 man but that's not Alonso's fault as he's actually a crumulent 1B/DH.

 

Palka shouldn't be playing RF but a guy who put up his power numbers last year as a literal rookie deserves a spot on a roster somewhere in the AL, to either see if he can continue it, improve, or crash out. 

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Palka shouldn't be playing RF but a guy who put up his power numbers last year as a literal rookie deserves a spot on a roster somewhere in the AL, to either see if he can continue it, improve, or crash out. 

I think we're seeing the crash out and it's unfortunate we also have to see him play RF as it happens.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I think we're seeing the crash out and it's unfortunate we also have to see him play RF as it happens.

If we are, you've still got to play him for 2-3 months to see if that's what's happening or it's just a 2 week slow start, it's not exactly uncommon to see guys start off poorly for all of April and still hit 40 home runs in a season. But yeah, it should be at DH. 

[greg775]

I agree he passes the eye test and makes the lineup better. He might be a guy we've picked up at his age who can actually hit a bit. Hope so. But as of now I agree he looks like a real hitter.

[Lillian]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

If we are, you've still got to play him for 2-3 months to see if that's what's happening or it's just a 2 week slow start, it's not exactly uncommon to see guys start off poorly for all of April and still hit 40 home runs in a season. But yeah, it should be at DH. 

Remember that Palka missed a lot of the early Spring Training, with that hamstring issue. He might just be catching up, and need more at bats. Power hitters usually take longer to get their stroke.