OneDog847 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said: All the more reason to strike while the iron is hot, sign a big time 6 WAR 3B and get on with it. So frustrating! I agree but that is not how JR operates. The Sox are never going to hand out a 300 million dollar contract to anyone as long as JR is in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 1 minute ago, OneDog847 said: I agree but that is not how JR operates. The Sox are never going to hand out a 300 million dollar contract to anyone as long as JR is in charge. And they won't build a team that's capable of being a sustainable contender until there's a new front office in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: I agree but that is not how JR operates. The Sox are never going to hand out a 300 million dollar contract to anyone as long as JR is in charge. Then be honest about it with the fans not this bullshit they fed us after about "competitive offer". There is literally NOTHING redeeming about this FO and ownership group. NOTHING. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 1 hour ago, WBWSF said: I can't help but wonder, is Hahn this incompetent/stupid ? In commenting about the Rob Mackowiak trade, Hahn says, "`Everyone thought we got him as an insurance policy for Joe Crede at third base, but you know what? This guy can really play some center field.'' (Sun-Times, Feb. 15, 2006) 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Blackout Friday said: It was this offseason for me. It should have and very easily could have been a massive turning point for the rebuild, direction, narrative, everything to do with this team. Even beyond Machado and Harper. And they not only failed to do anything meaningful, they did it in the most embarrassing, fan murdering way possible, and then proceeded to make things worse by spewing a bunch of nonsense trying to save face and basically insulting the intelligence of what little fanbase remains in the process. It still boggles my mind when I look back at the sheer incompetence and lack of accountability in this entire organization. I realize Hahn isn’t the only one to blame, but he’s certainly one of the big ones. He’s the goddamn GM, not an intern. So, yeah... I’m done giving that dipshit any benefit of the doubt. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This x 2! Well said, Blackout Friday! My sentiments exactly. To make matters worse, next offseason's free agent class is trash. So stop telling us that the $$ will be spent. No it won't! Unless you go back to the old ways of doing business and spend $$ on acquiring a bunch of mid range talent and hope to catch lightning in a bottle. Or trading from within the farm system to bring talent in from other organizations. But don't worry, Hahn will keep telling us that the narrative has changed and they have spent $$ on international talent, made a trade with the Cubs and are indeed embarking in a rebuild. This is nice, Rick! How about actually converting on your major free agent target? Why the hell should white sox fans be jealous of Padres and Phillies fans? Makes no sense, unless your incompetent and/or cheap. I know, I know, KW HATES it when people call Jerry cheap, he just wanted to get Machado with insulting incentive clauses-- deep down knowing Machado would likely sign elsewhere. Oh, but we should be proud of their efforts though... give me a break! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Just now, maxjusttyped said: And they won't build a team that's capable of being a sustainable contender until there's a new front office in charge. Time will tell. Let's hope that Hahn can hit on most of the tier 2 and 3 free agents that JR will let him sign over the next couple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: Time will tell. Let's hope that Hahn can hit on most of the tier 2 and 3 free agents that JR will let him sign over the next couple years. We’ve already seen this game before. The answer is no. The list of dumpster diving free agents that Hahn has signed has been plentiful and also a waste of millions. Edited April 10, 2019 by Harper2Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: Time will tell. Let's hope that Hahn can hit on most of the tier 2 and 3 free agents that JR will let him sign over the next couple years. Do we need Alonso, Dunn, and Frazier again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, GreatScott82 said: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This x 2! Well said, Blackout Friday! My sentiments exactly. To make matters worse, next offseason's free agent class is trash. So stop telling us that the $$ will be spent. No it won't! Unless you go back to the old ways of doing business and spend $$ on acquiring a bunch of mid range talent and hope to catch lightning in a bottle. Or trading from within the farm system to bring talent in from other organizations. But don't worry, Hahn will keep telling us that the narrative has changed and they have spent $$ on international talent, made a trade with the Cubs and are indeed embarking in a rebuild. This is nice, Rick! How about actually converting on your major free agent target? Why the hell should white sox fans be jealous of Padres and Phillies fans? Makes no sense, unless your incompetent and/or cheap. I know, I know, KW HATES it when people call Jerry cheap, he just wanted to get Machado with insulting incentive clauses-- deep down knowing Machado would likely sign elsewhere. Oh, but we should be proud of their efforts though... give me a break! This is exactly what they are going to do. Last offseason was perfect evidence that this is the plan going forward. I fully expect them to sign three FA agents this offseason in the same vein as the Melky Cabrera, Robertson, Laroche signings from a few years ago. They will also trade prospects for a veteran pitcher or catcher similar to the Frazier/Samardjzia trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Just now, OneDog847 said: This is exactly what they are going to do. Last offseason was perfect evidence that this is the plan going forward. I fully expect them to sign three FA agents this offseason in the same vein as the Melky Cabrera, Robertson, Laroche signings from a few years ago. They will also trade prospects for a veteran pitcher or catcher similar to the Frazier/Samardjzia trades. Not a fan of Narvaez as a starter but he has been absolutely tearing it up in Seattle. That trade looks like ass as well given the situation at catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Machado was no way worth 300 but the Sox braintrust did not grasp the value added concepts that were aired here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, pcq said: Machado was no way worth 300 but the Sox braintrust did not grasp the value added concepts that were aired here. Machado is worth $300 million. A 33 year old scrub like Jeff Keppinger was not worth $12 million dollars. But Reinsdorf owns the Sox and Hahn is our GM. Edited April 10, 2019 by Harper2Sox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Not a fan of Narvaez as a starter but he has been absolutely tearing it up in Seattle. That trade looks like ass as well given the situation at catcher. .258/.275/.410 Tearing it up... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: Do we need Alonso, Dunn, and Frazier again? No we need signings like Cain, Chacin, and Jedd Lowrie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 1 minute ago, OneDog847 said: No we need signings like Cain, Chacin, and Jedd Lowrie Hahn has proven he signs the wrong middle and lower tier free agents time and time again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Not a fan of Narvaez as a starter but he has been absolutely tearing it up in Seattle. That trade looks like ass as well given the situation at catcher. If Colome continues to pitch well he will be flipped in a couple months. I'm not sure what the long term plan at catcher is. Throw Collins and Zavala out there next year and let them sink or swim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: If Colome continues to pitch well he will be flipped in a couple months. I'm not sure what the long term plan at catcher is. Throw Collins and Zavala out there next year and let them sink or swim? With the guys Hahn has gotten in deadline trades for relievers, you can only hope to get a player as productive as Narvaez in a trade. We'll see I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Not a fan of Narvaez as a starter but he has been absolutely tearing it up in Seattle. That trade looks like ass as well given the situation at catcher. If they're convinced Narvaez won't improve behind the plate, it's fine. If he eventually becomes a competent or better receiver, then it's another indication the Sox are bad at player development. I feel pretty confident Collins can at least develop into a ~110 wRC+ guy with bad defense behind the plate. I think Narvaez's quotes about the White Sox player development staff after the trade were very damning: "And then Paul Hoover, the catching coordinator there, he divulged the inner secrets to me. Like I never knew that we got rated on receiving, I never knew that we got rated on blocking, pitch framing; I didn’t know any of that stuff. I didn’t know that we got pluses and minuses, and I’m sitting there going, what are you talking about? I thought we just caught the ball and tried to get strikes.” https://sodomojo.com/2019/01/31/omar-narvaez-seattle-mariners-underrated-offseason-acquisition/ I also remember reading that Tyler Flowers became aware of pitch framing not from the White Sox, but because he saw it mentioned on MLB Network & did his own research on the subject. Edited April 10, 2019 by maxjusttyped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, ron883 said: With the guys Hahn has gotten in deadline trades for relievers, you can only hope to get a player as productive as Narvaez in a trade. We'll see I guess. He won't come anywhere close to getting a Narvaez for him, based on his prior midseason deals. Hahn's basically relatively quiet in July, and satisfied with Rule 5 guys when he makes a move; he really should look to score in July as that's the overpay time of the year. Edited April 10, 2019 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 25 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said: .258/.275/.410 Tearing it up... sporting a cool 100 wRC+ at the moment, which is almost certainly about 30 points higher than McCann will finish with. As I said, I'm not a huge Omar guy, his framing sucked to the point where it took away his shiny OBP from the C spot but replacing him with McCann and netting a veteran reliever for the trouble is just the sort of "meh" move that Hahn makes over and over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisox378 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) Narvaez was a good hitter,period. His K to walk was good. We could have made him into something special. The Mariners figured this out. Did we get Wellington Castillo for defensive purposes? Our judging talent is bad. We like the guys that hit for low average and K a ton, ala not very good hitters who do little to move runners over or get RBIs. In my opinion it's Thome and Steverson that wants these lousy hitters, and Hahn is the "yes" guy even though he knows it stinks. Honestly if they let Ricky manage and give him a say he wins the division this year. Edited April 10, 2019 by Chisox378 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 I thnik the only teams that did a worse job during Hahn‘s tenure are the Marlins and the Angels. The way that the Angels built a team around Mike Trout should be a felony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 1 hour ago, OneDog847 said: What these three teams did is not easy. Also, KC tanked for a decade plus in order to build a World Series winner. A third of the league is actively tanking. There isn't going to be seats for everyone when the game of musical chairs stops. None, none whatsoever of those teams started off with the advantage of 3 players to trade from your somehow garbage organization that the White Sox started off with. That was like 3 drafts worth of big league quality talent gifted to us as a head start. That should start mattering, well, now, if it ever is going to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 37 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: None, none whatsoever of those teams started off with the advantage of 3 players to trade from your somehow garbage organization that the White Sox started off with. That was like 3 drafts worth of big league quality talent gifted to us as a head start. That should start mattering, well, now, if it ever is going to. It is impossible to overstate how advantageous of a position the Sox were in when their rebuild started. Teams like the Astros, Cubs, Padres, Phillies, Braves etc did not have a core of AS caliber players signed to bargain contracts. Any competent front office should have been able to turn those pieces into a sustainable contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 48 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said: It is impossible to overstate how advantageous of a position the Sox were in when their rebuild started. Teams like the Astros, Cubs, Padres, Phillies, Braves etc did not have a core of AS caliber players signed to bargain contracts. Any competent front office should have been able to turn those pieces into a sustainable contender. Also worth noting - they started their rebuild after 3 additional losing seasons, including a season where they won 63 games, so they should also have had a chance to stock up on talent before they started the official rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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