HollywoodTim Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Flash said: Detmers curveball looks to be the best SO pitch in this draft and among the best I've seen. The guy struck out better than 2 batters per inning this year. Plus he's young and who's to say he can't add a couple ticks to his fastball. If he can get his heater up to mid-90s, he is a 1/2 rotation piece...might be anyway. I saw some clips on google that makes him look better to me. Maybe he's JA Happ or better yet Ted Lilly if the change is good enough. But I don't see the hype. JMO. He ahs an MLB arm but it's the Major Leagues and pretty much everybody there is a good and has an MLB arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I want to see Reid Detmers after a year of being in an MLB strength program and after a year of being exposed to a team's pitching lab. While he does have one killer pitch in his curveball, he doesn't have elite stuff but he does have average tools across the board. When the last true pitchability guy the Sox had or developed? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 10 hours ago, PolishPrince34 said: The only prep player I want the Sox not to pick is Soderstrom. I’m tired of Wasting high draft picks that are very questionable with their defense position and being able to handle it ( Collins, Burger, Sheets) When in doubt go up the middle. That is an interesting concern Law brings up Detmers about Pitching every 5th day. You hope it wouldn’t be the case due to his size, but if he loses a little velocity- Big mistake Tyler Soderstrom actually has above average athleticism going for him. He's nothing like those guys you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Longenhagen on Detmers... Detmers' curveball is arguably the best pitch in the entire draft and he locates his fastball well enough to get away with throwing only 92 Detmers' curveball is hell's rainbow, especially for left-handed hitters who think it's headed for their lips, bail, and watch it bend into the zone. He does go on to state his concern over lack of a well developed third offering but seems more optimistic than others about his MLB path. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Graded 55 my ass. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince34 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 4 hours ago, Joshua Strong said: Tyler Soderstrom actually has above average athleticism going for him. He's nothing like those guys you mentioned. Most scouts lean on him not making it as a defensive catcher. His next best position might be 3b or LF. Sorry, but I want someone up the middle or even has a chance in RF. Their needs to be so much development done with Soderstrom And it scares me the White Sox would be able to make him into a key asset down the road. They’ve been struggling with developing players and moving them around (Bush, Curbello, Delgado, Fisher). Yes I know Bush and Delgado are both young still, but still are miles away. I also like Hassell, PCA, and Hendricks hitting profile better than Soderstrom. I agree with Law that their needs to be some mechanical changes done to get more power in his bat. Too much work for the 11th overall pick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Soxfan Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I am still hopeful for pitching but PCA is growing on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Surprised people down on Detmers, I’d be really happy. Among other things, we have nothing like him in system. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 37 minutes ago, sox71 said: I am still hopeful for pitching but PCA is growing on me. Same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 6 hours ago, Joshua Strong said: I want to see Reid Detmers after a year of being in an MLB strength program and after a year of being exposed to a team's pitching lab. While he does have one killer pitch in his curveball, he doesn't have elite stuff but he does have average tools across the board. When the last true pitchability guy the Sox had or developed? Not developed entirely in house, but do we get any credit for Quintana? 1 hour ago, SoxAce said: Graded 55 my ass. It's clearly flat as an arrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 9 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: https://www.mlb.com/prospects/draft/reid-detmers-672282 MLB pipeline also has Detmers' curveball as a 55. Not impressed. If the curveball was a 70 or something like that I'd get the hype, but everyone with grades has him as a 55. I'd rather miss on Crochet than Detmers. Fair enough. Those guys are underselling the curveball though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince34 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) I’m a fan of Detmers, but Law and PTATC bring up questions that make you pause a little with possibility of losing velocity pitching every 5th day and core/flexibility issues which can lead to injuries down the road. Love Detmers curveball and we need a lefty. I would be happy if Sox selected him. We need to hit on this pick after Fulmer,Collins, and Burger. Whether This pick makes it on out ball club or as a trade bait for a playoff run. I do feel more confident with how the Sox has played catch up to the rest of league in the analytics and development department. Just need to continue to see improvement on development of our young hitters. Edited June 7, 2020 by PolishPrince34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I missed that Law had Masyn Wynn at 47. That would be awesome, but feels like a Rays guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollywoodTim Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Quin said: Not developed entirely in house, but do we get any credit for Quintana? It's clearly flat as an arrow. Did anyone say it is flat? Also, have you seen Major League pitching before? You can make pitching ninja gifs about like 85-90% of the pitchers in baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollywoodTim Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Put it this way, he's no Carlos Rodon. And how has Rodon turned out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Fair enough. Those guys are underselling the curveball though. That could be true, but what I saw is that a lot of scouts don't think his curveball is going to be as devastating in pro ball as it is in NCAA. They think that it's "loopy" (meaning lots of break but not sharp break) and they're also concerned about it being a slower pitch. That said, a slow curve worked ok for Kershaw(sarcasm intended), but he threw mid-high 90s at his peak, while in the best case scenario Detmers will average around 92mph. If Detmers is a top 10-15 pick MLB is drafting pitching wrong. My understanding is that if a breaking ball has a lot of movement but it doesn't break sharply, it's a less effective pitch than one with that doesn't move as much but it does break sharply. That's what sets a pitch like Rodon's slider apart. It does both. Edited June 7, 2020 by Jack Parkman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I've seen comparisons of Crochet to Sale because he's left handed and a bit of a tiny motion. The big difference is that Sale never had arm issues in college or ever until this year when he's 31 and was suspended at the beginning of the season for undisclosed reasons. Major red flags. I do not want that 11 where I see his ceiling as an Andrew Miller and a floor as out of the league in 5 years. Some team will take him in the 20s and have him pitch in the bullpen this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollywoodTim Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 21 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: That could be true, but what I saw is that a lot of scouts don't think his curveball is going to be as devastating in pro ball as it is in NCAA. They think that it's "loopy" (meaning lots of break but not sharp break) and they're also concerned about it being a slower pitch. That said, a slow curve worked ok for Kershaw(sarcasm intended), but he threw mid-high 90s at his peak, while in the best case scenario Detmers will average around 92mph. If Detmers is a top 10-15 pick MLB is drafting pitching wrong. My understanding is that if a breaking ball has a lot of movement but it doesn't break sharply, it's a less effective pitch that one with that doesn't move as much but it does break sharply. That's what sets a pitch like Rodon's slider apart. It does both. Also the great CB pitchers usually seem to be able to throw several different variations of it. The best ones like Zito and Lilly eg from the left side always seem to have a devastating changeup to go with it. Rich Hill, etc. Even though he's a RHP, Brandon McCarthy's CB change combination was another example. I think about John Danks for example. Does he have better stuff all-around or even a better CB than prime John Danks? Danks was a late first rounder. I think overall Danks in his prime is a better pitcher for sure. Again, it's MLB pitching. And I would really be shocked if this CB I'm looking at in gifs is really the best K pitch in the draft. I highly doubt it. Out of all of the eligible players, someone has to have a Bobby Jenks / Kerry Wood yellow hammer or a wicked slider or something, somewhere, and if not right now, it is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollywoodTim Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, GGajewski18 said: I've seen comparisons of Crochet to Sale because he's left handed and a bit of a tiny motion. The big difference is that Sale never had arm issues in college or ever until this year when he's 31 and was suspended at the beginning of the season for undisclosed reasons. Major red flags. I do not want that 11 where I see his ceiling as an Andrew Miller and a floor as out of the league in 5 years. Some team will take him in the 20s and have him pitch in the bullpen this year. I'd take Meyer, Kelly and Bitsko over Detmers even if it isn't Crochet. Edited June 7, 2020 by HollywoodTim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 1 minute ago, HollywoodTim said: I'd take Meyer, Kelly and Bitsko over Detmers even if it isn't Crochet. Meyer is a given. That I agree with you. Kelly is falling big time on draft boards although I do like him. I just like Detmers more. Bitsko is very interesting, I just don't think it's the Sox MO (at least right now) College pitching or prep hitting is what I would target in round 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, GGajewski18 said: I've seen comparisons of Crochet to Sale because he's left handed and a bit of a tiny motion. The big difference is that Sale never had arm issues in college or ever until this year when he's 31 and was suspended at the beginning of the season for undisclosed reasons. Major red flags. I do not want that 11 where I see his ceiling as an Andrew Miller and a floor as out of the league in 5 years. Some team will take him in the 20s and have him pitch in the bullpen this year. This is fair, however with Detmers you have to look at a couple things. 1. The possibility that his stuff doesn't play as well in pro ball(fastball backing up starting every 5th day, curveball not as effective) 2. As Ptatc said, there are some issues in his delivery. I just think the risk level is similar, and at least with Crochet you'd have a guy who if he stays healthy, will at the very least be a lights out reliever. With Detmers, there's a very real chance he never makes it past AA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: This is fair, however with Detmers you have to look at a couple things. 1. The possibility that his stuff doesn't play as well in pro ball(fastball backing up starting every 5th day, curveball not as effective) 2. As Ptatc said, there are some issues in his delivery. I just think the risk level is similar, and at least with Crochet you'd have a guy who if he stays healthy, will at the very least be a lights out reliever. With Detmers, there's a very real chance he never makes it past AA. See, I think it's the other way around. With Crochet's injury history and not much college success, if he struggles at all, it can sink fast. In general, for the Sox at 11, they would take Detmers over Crochet 10 times out of 10 because his floor is higher, safer pick, and can contribute next year if everything clicks. Everything is above average with him that can make him a good #3. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 1 hour ago, HollywoodTim said: Put it this way, he's no Carlos Rodon. And how has Rodon turned out? They could sign Crochet underslot, Detmers would be a slot or overslot signing. I think using your logic, that makes Detmers better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Why on earth would Rodons career be a comp to Detmers other than they are left handed? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Comps in draft talk are the worst. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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