Dallas Keuchel signs one year deal with Braves

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, OneDog847 said:

The Sox are going to have to add a lot more than just a starting pitcher if they plan to compete next year.  Half of the current roster needs to be replaced. Very difficult to do that in one offseason. 2020 is very likely to be another tank/developmental year.

Well sure, we’ll have to add more than just a starting pitcher and they most definitely will.  Your plan on tanking for another couple seasons would simply end up with perpetual rebuilding.

[RTC]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Well sure, we’ll have to add more than just a starting pitcher and they most definitely will.  Your plan on tanking for another couple seasons would simply end up with perpetual rebuilding.

Serious question: what gives you hope that this front office either WILL or HAS THE CAPABILITY TO identify, and/or pay for (i.e., have the biggest offer), the correct players that will bring more than sub-replacement level performance (i.e., Alonso, Jay, etc) and make a significant contribution to a drive to a championship?

[Chicago White Sox]

24 minutes ago, RTC said:

Serious question: what gives you hope that this front office either WILL or HAS THE CAPABILITY TO identify, and/or pay for (i.e., have the biggest offer), the correct players that will bring more than sub-replacement level performance (i.e., Alonso, Jay, etc) and make a significant contribution to a drive to a championship?

Wether they ultimately add the right players remains to be seen and I have zero optimism they add the biggest of stars (Rendon / Cole), but I think they will be very active in that next tier of players such as Wheeler, Ozuna, Martinez, Grandal, etc.  We literally have minimal payroll obligations over the next few years and the Sox are going to spend big to complement our cheap young core of Moncada, Eloy, Anderson, Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Robert, and potentially a few other guys.  Tanking is officially over after this season.

[OneDog847]

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Wether they ultimately add the right players remains to be seen and I have zero optimism they add the biggest of stars (Rendon / Cole), but I think they will be very active in that next tier of players such as Wheeler, Ozuna, Martinez, Grandal, etc.  We literally have minimal payroll obligations over the next few years and the Sox are going to spend big to complement our cheap young core of Moncada, Eloy, Anderson, Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Robert, and potentially a few other guys.  Tanking is officially over after this season.

What makes you believe the Sox will spend big?

The Sox have already tried playing the add Tier B and C free agents to a good young core game and lost. It is insane to try that route again with Rick Hahn in charge. 

Either pony up for elite talent like Cole, Rendon, and JD Martinez or don't play the FA game at all. 

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, OneDog847 said:

What makes you believe the Sox will spend big?

The Sox have already tried playing the add Tier B and C free agents to a good young core game and lost. It is insane to try that route again with Rick Hahn in charge. 

Either pony up for elite talent like Cole, Rendon, and JD Martinez or don't play the FA game at all. 

And just end up in a perpetual rebuild?  Is that really your plan?

[Jack Parkman]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And just end up in a perpetual rebuild?  Is that really your plan?

He's right though. They either have to spend what it takes to get elite talent or they're going to end up in perpetual mediocrity again. 

Do or do not. (Spend or sit out FA) there is no try (tier B/C FA) 

Edited May 25, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Chicago White Sox]

13 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

He's right though. They either have to spend what it takes to get elite talent or they're going to end up in perpetual mediocrity again. 

Do or do not. (Spend or sit out FA) there is no try (tier B/C FA) 

100% disagree.  I’m all for going after the elite guys, but assuming we miss out on them we can’t continue punting more seasons.  We have four seasons of control left of Moncada & Giolito and most of our key minor league reinforcements should be ready by early next year.  The time to make moves is next offseason.  And B tier free agents aren’t necessarily a bad thing, especially in this environment where they aren’t getting ridiculous contacts.

[OneDog847]

41 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And just end up in a perpetual rebuild?  Is that really your plan?

A perpetual rebuild is not my plan.  I've already seen the plan that you are suggesting and the ending sucked. The Sox should not try to accelerate this rebuild by signing a bunch of Yasiel Puig and Michael Wacha type guys. All the injuries have turned this into a slow burn rebuild and the Sox need to let the meat marinate a bit. 

Pretty much all of the future "core" should be in Chicago by the all star break next year. They should have a better idea on what holes to fill after 2020. The exception is pitching. The time to start stockpiling pitching is always. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by OneDog847

[OneDog847]

12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

100% disagree.  I’m all for going after the elite guys, but assuming we miss out on them we can’t continue punting more seasons.  We have four seasons of control left of Moncada & Giolito and most of our key minor league reinforcements should be ready by early next year.  The time to make moves is next offseason.  And B tier free agents aren’t necessarily a bad thing, especially in this environment where they aren’t getting ridiculous contacts.

Next year is only year 4 of the Sox rebuild. Houston punted away 5 straight seasons in their rebuild. Minnesota has been rebuilding since 2011. 

2020 is likely another tank/developmental year and that is okay. 

[Chicago White Sox]

17 minutes ago, OneDog847 said:

A perpetual rebuild is not my plan.  I've already seen the plan that you are suggesting and the ending sucked. The Sox should not try to accelerate this rebuild by signing a bunch of Yasiel Puig and Michael Wacha type guys. All the injuries have turned this into a slow burn rebuild and the Sox need to let the meat marinate a bit. 

Pretty much all of the future "core" should be in Chicago by the all star break next year. They should have a better idea on what holes to fill after 2020. The exception is pitching. The time to start stockpiling pitching is always. 

When did we execute the plan I’m suggesting?  When we added Melky & LaRoche?  I would consider those guys to be C free agents.

[RTC]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And just end up in a perpetual rebuild?  Is that really your plan?

Your not answering everyone’s question though.  Not what you think they SHOULD do, or even will have the resources available TO do, but upon what do you base any confidence that they actually WILL be able to successfully do it. EDIT: And I'm not even limiting this to the huge free agents, I'm including signing the CORRECT 2nd tier guys.

Edited May 25, 2019 by RTC

[Jack Parkman]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

100% disagree.  I’m all for going after the elite guys, but assuming we miss out on them we can’t continue punting more seasons.  We have four seasons of control left of Moncada & Giolito and most of our key minor league reinforcements should be ready by early next year.  The time to make moves is next offseason.  And B tier free agents aren’t necessarily a bad thing, especially in this environment where they aren’t getting ridiculous contacts.

Tier B guys aren't enough to win when you're competing with the Yankees, Red Sawx and Astros in their current form. Those teams have as damn close to a complete roster as you can get. 

 

Edited May 25, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[greg775]

I get the feeling the Sox are not adding anybody this season. Just the draft picks. I can't believe the rebuild people in baseball got their way and this is an acceptable way to build contenders. Of course the Sox should sign free agent pitching. They are in nobody's way and would help us win games, heaven forbid maybe even contend. I read another story about baseball attendance sucking so hopefully that will continue to plague this wretched sport of teams that try to lose in order to someday win.

Edited May 25, 2019 by greg775

[Lip Man 1]

4 hours ago, OneDog847 said:

Next year is only year 4 of the Sox rebuild. Houston punted away 5 straight seasons in their rebuild. Minnesota has been rebuilding since 2011. 

2020 is likely another tank/developmental year and that is okay. 

Didn't Minnesota have a winning seasons and just miss the playoffs, was it two years ago? I don't know if you can say they are still rebuilding because of that. Last year they went "all in" and it backfired but this year they are an almost sure lock to win the division and make the postseason. That's not rebuilding any longer to me.

 

[poppysox]

3 hours ago, greg775 said:

I get the feeling the Sox are not adding anybody this season. Just the draft picks. I can't believe the rebuild people in baseball got their way and this is an acceptable way to build contenders. Of course the Sox should sign free agent pitching. They are in nobody's way and would help us win games, heaven forbid maybe even contend. I read another story about baseball attendance sucking so hopefully that will continue to plague this wretched sport of teams that try to lose in order to someday win.

When we see what the Sox do with Abreu & Colome we will get insight as to how far away the FO thinks we are.

[SCCWS]

6 hours ago, OneDog847 said:

Next year is only year 4 of the Sox rebuild. Houston punted away 5 straight seasons in their rebuild. Minnesota has been rebuilding since 2011. 

2020 is likely another tank/developmental year and that is okay. 

 Houston had 6 years below .500 before they bounced back. This most likely will be the Sox 6th year below .500.  So Houston was smarter and started their rebuild faster than we did. 

[poppysox]

3 hours ago, greg775 said:

I get the feeling the Sox are not adding anybody this season. Just the draft picks. I can't believe the rebuild people in baseball got their way and this is an acceptable way to build contenders. Of course the Sox should sign free agent pitching. They are in nobody's way and would help us win games, heaven forbid maybe even contend. I read another story about baseball attendance sucking so hopefully that will continue to plague this wretched sport of teams that try to lose in order to someday win.

We have an incredible amount of star talent already on the big club and approximately a year away.  I would beef up quality starting pitching as much as budget will allow.  Kopech & Rodon will be back but not at full throttle for awhile.  Cease will be getting his feet wet.  Spend the money on pitching and don't shoot your wad on some over payed slugger.  Pitching-defense-and a balanced offense wins baseball games.  Do all that and still need a stud then I'm all in.  Build the sound foundation first.

[Lip Man 1]

20 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

 Houston had 6 years below .500 before they bounced back. This most likely will be the Sox 6th year below .500.  So Houston was smarter and started their rebuild faster than we did. 

Actually it would be their seventh straight losing season and ninth in the last 12 years.

[Lip Man 1]

17 minutes ago, poppysox said:

We have an incredible amount of star talent already on the big club and approximately a year away.  I would beef up quality starting pitching as much as budget will allow.  Kopech & Rodon will be back but not at full throttle for awhile.  Cease will be getting his feet wet.  Spend the money on pitching and don't shoot your wad on some over payed slugger.  Pitching-defense-and a balanced offense wins baseball games.  Do all that and still need a stud then I'm all in.  Build the sound foundation first.

Agree. Just look at 2005 for example. The Sox had excellent starting pitching, a lights-out bullpen and were in the top quarter of the league in home runs, sacrifice fly's, infield hits, stolen bases and sacrifice bunts. That's great balance. They could beat you with a blast into the seats, a bloop hit into short right field or a bunt down the third base line.

[poppysox]

4 hours ago, greg775 said:

I get the feeling the Sox are not adding anybody this season. Just the draft picks. I can't believe the rebuild people in baseball got their way and this is an acceptable way to build contenders. Of course the Sox should sign free agent pitching. They are in nobody's way and would help us win games, heaven forbid maybe even contend. I read another story about baseball attendance sucking so hopefully that will continue to plague this wretched sport of teams that try to lose in order to someday win.

I'm certainly with you on the pitching needing reinforcements.  Never have enough.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 hours ago, RTC said:

Your not answering everyone’s question though.  Not what you think they SHOULD do, or even will have the resources available TO do, but upon what do you base any confidence that they actually WILL be able to successfully do it. EDIT: And I'm not even limiting this to the huge free agents, I'm including signing the CORRECT 2nd tier guys.

That is always a concern, but the last few years it really hasn't been that hard to identify some decent 2nd tier guys. Just look for guys that have a track record of production in the AL who aren't all that old , who play solid defense have some power and on base abilities.

I thought Avi and Schoop were the most talented guys among the non tendered guys. I thought Brantley would've been a really good pick up this year. You can see my comments on him in the recently bumped thread about the Colome trade.

I thought McCann was the right choice among the catchers to pick up just because he was the youngest and offered the most unrealized potential when the rest of the catchers were just old guys. Also comments on him in that Colome thread and earlier than that in some spring training threads though I have no idea which ones.

I liked Moustakas and JD Martinez not necessarily to keep  for a long time but they seemed to offer the most upside while having very few teams going after them and could have been flipped..  Moustakas came cheap 2 years in a row although 2 years ago i believe he had a draft choice attached to him. I also like left handed hitters a lot more than righties. I think you also have to take some chances on injured guys like the Sox did with Jermaine Dye and Houston did with Brantley.

I don't think I'm as good with picking pitchers but I do like Bumgarner . I'm  also of the group that the Sox should kick the tires on Keuchel who at this point should be considering as a Tier B guy because after the draft I'm thinking it won't take more than 2 years and whoever gets him may offer 3 and while the Sox might have to outbid some contenders i don't think he'll be more than 30M . If he is I'd pass on him. Ideally for the rest of 2019 and 2020 at somewhere under $30M.And yes I'd love Rendon,

[Chisox378]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And yes I'd love Rendon,

Mee too.

[greg775]

11 hours ago, OneDog847 said:

Next year is only year 4 of the Sox rebuild. Houston punted away 5 straight seasons in their rebuild. Minnesota has been rebuilding since 2011. 

2020 is likely another tank/developmental year and that is okay. 

Hopefully not OK with the fans. I hope our attendance plummets and our TV ratings suck.

[OneDog847]

21 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

When did we execute the plan I’m suggesting?  When we added Melky & LaRoche?  I would consider those guys to be C free agents.

The Sox executed your plan by signing guys like Melky, LaRoche, Robertson, and trading for guys like Shark, Frazier, and Shields. 

Again, no more buying cars from Carmax when you can afford a brand new Audi or Range Rover. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

45 minutes ago, OneDog847 said:

The Sox executed your plan by signing guys like Melky, LaRoche, Robertson, and trading for guys like Shark, Frazier, and Shields. 

Again, no more buying cars from Carmax when you can afford a brand new Audi or Range Rover. 

But that isn't his plan because that was before the rebuild and the payroll was higher than then now. His plan if to definitely go after high end guys but either supplement it with less expensive types or reinforce weak positions only if needed. For example you let Alonso not get the AB's necessary to vest his option and go after Rendon. If Rendon falls through maybe you go after Moustakas if he is available to either play 1st base or third and even some second base like the Brewers are using him. Or you can go after both. He has actually played more games at 2nd base than 3rd base this year and has done enough there for his WAR not to suffer  He's already been worth 1.6 bWAR this year and was a relatively cheap option for 2 years in a row. He should be a 2.5 WAR guy who is a run producer;

Look at someone like Yolmer Sanchez who was a 3.5 and 2,5 bWar guy for 2 years in a row coming into this year but much of it was fielding, Once he stopped hitting he became a 0 WAR guy . You pretty much always know what you are going to get from Moustakas. Inexpensive guys who play multiple positions who can hit 30 HR's while not batting below .250 are always decent pickups. You cannot have stars at every position.

Right now Moustaskas is Jose Abreu with the bat but with twice the bWAR because he plays 3rd and 2nd equally well and if that's the case he can also play 1st. He's also around 1.5 years younger than Abreu.

Edited May 26, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside