Lillian Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 (edited) One has to question this notion that the only way to succeed in free agency acquisitions is to go after the top tier guys. So far this season, the best signings were Brantley, Adam Jones, Avi and Moustakas. None of them were in the same tier as Harper and Machado and certainly none of them received potentially crippling contracts, for their respective franchises. Harper and Machado have both been among the worst free agents acquired, based upon the amount of money they received. In the final analysis, it comes down to player evaluation and luck. Simply being willing to spend the most money, is not the most important criteria for success. Based upon risk versus reward, one could argue that the second tier guys are a better choice. Edited May 26, 2019 by Lillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, Lillian said: One has to question this notion that the only way to succeed in free agency acquisitions is to go after the top tier guys. So far this season, the best signings were Brantley, Adam Jones, Avi and Moustakas. None of them were in the same tier as Harper and Machado and certainly none of them received potentially crippling contracts, for their respective franchises. Harper and Machado have both been among the worst free agents acquired, based upon the amount of money they received. In the final analysis, it comes down to player evaluation and luck. Simply being willing to spend the most money, is not the most important criteria for success. Based upon risk versus reward, one could argue that the second tier guys are a better choice. Don't forget Jonathon Schoop , non tendered and signed for 1 year by the Twins for $7.5M You won't get a high OBP from him but he has been worth 1.3 bWAR this year with 10 HR's . Last year the Twins tried Free agency with mostly pitchers and it backfired, This year they went after more position players Besides Schoop it was Nelson Cruz, Marwin Gonzalez, and also picked up CJ Cron off waivers from Tampa Bay. One of their best pitchers was a Free Agent Martin Perez. One of their best relievers is Blake Parker who they also signed as a FA. Make no doubt the Twins hit a HR this year and that is ultra rare hitting on so many low cost guys. But it isn't so rare to get 1 or 2 that can contribute. The Twins spent less than $50M for all those FA's and waivers on an under 30 yrs old 30 HR guy in CJ Cron and gave him $4.8M for a year. . By the way his father Chris managed in the White Sox minor leagues so you could have thought he should've been on the Sox radar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 This is where a franchise's Major League player evaluation people come in. You can get productive "second tier" free agents if you have a department staffed by people who know what they are doing and can make good recommendations to the G.M. The track record speaks for itself regarding the "success" of the Sox acquisitions overall. Hahn doesn't work in a vacuum, the issue in this area doesn't fall completely on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Sox ain't competing for anything anytime soon. Kuechel makes a ton more sense for a team like the Twins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 hours ago, OneDog847 said: Sox ain't competing for anything anytime soon. Kuechel makes a ton more sense for a team like the Twins. Maybe. Add Keuchel for this year and next ,sign Bumgarner in the off season and suddenly you have Bumgarner, Keuchel Giolito Cease, Kopech Dunning and Rodon for 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) Nelson Cruz and Marwin Gonzalez were 2nd tier guys and Schoop got 7.5M but Perez and Cron each got under $5M. As of now the 3 cheapest guys are making the biggest contributions, Blake Parker is a bit like McCann in that he is eligible for arbitration next year but was signed for $1,8 and has been so far an outstanding member of their bull pen. Perez has a team option for 2020. Edited May 27, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Maybe. Add Keuchel for this year and next ,sign Bumgarner in the off season and suddenly you have Bumgarner, Keuchel Giolito Cease, Kopech Dunning and Rodon for 2020. And that's about what you need on a championship team. That kind of staff and a lineup augmented by Robert and Madrigal wins something. Maybe all of it after playing together for a year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 20 hours ago, Lillian said: One has to question this notion that the only way to succeed in free agency acquisitions is to go after the top tier guys. So far this season, the best signings were Brantley, Adam Jones, Avi and Moustakas. None of them were in the same tier as Harper and Machado and certainly none of them received potentially crippling contracts, for their respective franchises. Harper and Machado have both been among the worst free agents acquired, based upon the amount of money they received. In the final analysis, it comes down to player evaluation and luck. Simply being willing to spend the most money, is not the most important criteria for success. Based upon risk versus reward, one could argue that the second tier guys are a better choice. For some reason after the Adams fiasco the Sox got gun shy about their spending. It still comes down to spending wisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 8 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Maybe. Add Keuchel for this year and next ,sign Bumgarner in the off season and suddenly you have Bumgarner, Keuchel Giolito Cease, Kopech Dunning and Rodon for 2020. Bumgardner scares me a bit. For one, there are a lot of miles on that arm. Secondly, he has never pitched in the AL before. However, you have to take some risks in a rebuild to succeed so he might be worth it. What do you think his cost will be? I doubt the Sox even enter negotiations if we are looking at a contract north of 100 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 hours ago, poppysox said: And that's about what you need on a championship team. That kind of staff and a lineup augmented by Robert and Madrigal wins something. Maybe all of it after playing together for a year or two. You know you are too smart to keep saying Madrigal will be an integral part of the 2020 team. It's not even a sure thing Robert will be there in 2020. It hurts your credibility when u keep saying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 14 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: Bumgardner scares me a bit. For one, there are a lot of miles on that arm. Secondly, he has never pitched in the AL before. However, you have to take some risks in a rebuild to succeed so he might be worth it. What do you think his cost will be? I doubt the Sox even enter negotiations if we are looking at a contract north of 100 million. His arm does have a lot of miles but he is young enough that it should bounce back and it is showing signs of that . No pitcher or player comes without something that scares you. I pretty much guarantee his contract will be north of $100M. This is from a recent article on who the Phillies might go after. "Bumgarner had shown signs of decline the last two seasons with lower strikeout rates, higher ERAs and far fewer innings pitched. This season, he's off to a promising start, striking out 9.3 batters per nine innings compared to 7.6 last season, along with one of the lower walk rates of his career. His fastball velocity is also about a full mile per hour higher than it was last season." https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/phillies/mlb-trade-rumors-zack-greinke-madison-bumgarner-mike-minor-all-realistic-phillies-trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: You know you are too smart to keep saying Madrigal will be an integral part of the 2020 team. It's not even a sure thing Robert will be there in 2020. It hurts your credibility when u keep saying that. Madrigal was named by the baseball community as the most major league ready player in last years draft. Chris Getz said on Saturday that the fans should judge the front line minor leaguers on what they see in the second half. Actually said they were very happy with where Robert and Madrigal are in their development. When asked about Robert being major league ready he said he could do it but was better served where he is for now. I believe the players I mentioned will be part of next years team. I also think that next years team will be the pulling together of all these prospects into a year of mutual learning at the major league level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 22 minutes ago, poppysox said: Madrigal was named by the baseball community as the most major league ready player in last years draft. Chris Getz said on Saturday that the fans should judge the front line minor leaguers on what they see in the second half. Actually said they were very happy with where Robert and Madrigal are in their development. When asked about Robert being major league ready he said he could do it but was better served where he is for now. I believe the players I mentioned will be part of next years team. I also think that next years team will be the pulling together of all these prospects into a year of mutual learning at the major league level. Madrigal hasn't even made it to AA yet and AA is the hardest step . That would be a huge leap for him. https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/white-sox-prospect-nick-madrigal-leads-minors-strikeout-rate-its-not-translating-hits Ok you tell me what exactly are Sox employees supposed to say? 1st half results on Madrigal are not encouraging so of course Getz will say look at the 2nd half. It's their job to paint a rosy picture. I am not saying it's a bleak picture at all , just be a little more realistic. There's only one chance that Madrigal starts the season in 2020 with the Sox and that's if he all of a sudden goes on a tear and hit's .350 jumps through AA at the same pace and ends the year in AAA. But I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts he won't even make it to AAA by the end of the year. And it's 50/50 on him even making it to AA at some point this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Madrigal hasn't even made it to AA yet and AA is the hardest step . That would be a huge leap for him. https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/white-sox-prospect-nick-madrigal-leads-minors-strikeout-rate-its-not-translating-hits Ok you tell me what exactly are Sox employees supposed to say? 1st half results on Madrigal are not encouraging so of course Getz will say look at the 2nd half. It's their job to paint a rosy picture. I am not saying it's a bleak picture at all , just be a little more realistic. There's only one chance that Madrigal starts the season in 2020 with the Sox and that's if he all of a sudden goes on a tear and hit's .350 jumps through AA at the same pace and ends the year in AAA. But I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts he won't even make it to AAA by the end of the year. And it's 50/50 on him even making it to AA at some point this year. We will see what we shall see. I admittedly think with my heart when it comes to the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Madrigal hasn't even made it to AA yet and AA is the hardest step . That would be a huge leap for him. https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/white-sox-prospect-nick-madrigal-leads-minors-strikeout-rate-its-not-translating-hits Ok you tell me what exactly are Sox employees supposed to say? 1st half results on Madrigal are not encouraging so of course Getz will say look at the 2nd half. It's their job to paint a rosy picture. I am not saying it's a bleak picture at all , just be a little more realistic. There's only one chance that Madrigal starts the season in 2020 with the Sox and that's if he all of a sudden goes on a tear and hit's .350 jumps through AA at the same pace and ends the year in AAA. But I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts he won't even make it to AAA by the end of the year. And it's 50/50 on him even making it to AA at some point this year. His lack of xbh and ev is concerning. Not always a one year track to The Show. His future looks more lead-off than run producer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 hours ago, poppysox said: We will see what we shall see. I admittedly think with my heart when it comes to the White Sox. And that's not a terrible thing at all. I am often guilty of the same thing but time has taught me to be more of a pragmatist. I often will stick up for prospects when they are badmouthed but that doesn't mean I don't see the faults that cause the badmouthing. Hope is a wonderful thing if used in moderation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 I remember being roasted for saying the Sox should sign Adam Jones to play RF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 hours ago, pcq said: His lack of xbh and ev is concerning. Not always a one year track to The Show. His future looks more lead-off than run producer. I don't think even the most optimistic ever thought of him as a run producer. His upside is just a good all around baseball player who can help a team by getting on base , extending rallies, driving in some runs and fielding his position and running the bases well. More like Whit Merrifield without Merrifield's power and frankly Id be very pleased with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 hours ago, pcq said: His lack of xbh and ev is concerning. Not always a one year track to The Show. His future looks more lead-off than run producer. Someone needs to get on base if you want to see 3 run bombs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 18 hours ago, pcq said: His lack of xbh and ev is concerning. Not always a one year track to The Show. His future looks more lead-off than run producer. He was always going to be a 1, 2, or 9 hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: He was always going to be a 1, 2, or 9 hitter. Good guess might be lead off hitter with high average & walks for high obp... A forty + base stealer and a player with a high baseball IQ...a really good glove and the quarterback of the infield. I'll take a dozen years of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 They were expecting Madrigal to hit doubles and a few homers. It has yet to materialize. They might have over-projected his hit tool or he just needs more time in the cage with woody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisox378 Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 Madrigal has 10 Doubles, 2 triples, and a home run, .271 avg. 14 walks to 6 k's. Move him up to Birmingham! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gusguyman Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 On 5/27/2019 at 6:52 AM, poppysox said: Madrigal was named by the baseball community as the most major league ready player in last years draft. Chris Getz said on Saturday that the fans should judge the front line minor leaguers on what they see in the second half. Actually said they were very happy with where Robert and Madrigal are in their development. When asked about Robert being major league ready he said he could do it but was better served where he is for now. I believe the players I mentioned will be part of next years team. I also think that next years team will be the pulling together of all these prospects into a year of mutual learning at the major league level. FWIW, the most major-league ready bats in the 2017 draft were Pavin Smith and Adam Haseley, neither of which has made it past AA. Zack Collins was also considered a polished college bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 I read today that Keuchel is considering accepting a 1 year deal next week (actually less than 1 year since the season is 1/3 over). I’d throw $15M at him and plug him in with Cease for the rest of the season see what happens. The Sox are on pace for 75 wins with one viable starting pitcher. Adding two more and bumping Lopez and Nova down to the 4/5 spots could make things interesting at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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