TaylorStSox Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Harper2Sox said: Yep, and wasn’t it even hinted in either the books or show that generations of incest causes mental problems / psychosis? The whole book series she's actively trying to fight becoming like the rest of the Targaryens. She becomes the worst of them all. That's the tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 It's going to even crazier in the books because her and Missandei are both children in the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 A lot of people lose people and don’t start randomly killing innocents. It did not explain why she did it, and “well she’s crazy now! With rage!” Isn’t good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said: And her nephew doesn’t want to bang her anymore. ? Many losses and perceived betrayals. It was strange when Jon said he loved her and then she got close and he was like nah not really tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 I agree with some of the points made here. Six episodes was far too short to get through this story so now it is all rushed, after how slow moving the story was going initially. How long was the dead army traveling? Since which season/episode? ? Episode 3 of this season was a bust to me but this episode 5 redeemed the show. I definitely am looking forward to some sort of twist ending next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, bmags said: I was a supporter of Dany turning bad but I have zero clue why she started indiscriminately flaming people. They can’t just expect a dramatic look to do that work. Her wanting to rule through fear doesn’t cut it. Yeah I really wish they would have set this up a little better. They were offered 10 episodes and chose to do less. The couple of extra hours would have really helped sell the Dany gone Mad Queen angle. The more I think about it though, the bread crumbs are all there. She worked her entire life to regain the throne. She gets to Westeros and immediately her closest friends and allies either fuck things up, die, or stab her in the back. She loses two of her dragons. And then the one person she loved not only has a better claim to the throne, but is loved by everyone. And then the last straw is that he no longer wants to be with her. She has nothing left. There needed to be more build up to that moment with Jon to make it more believable, but I understand why they didn't want Jon to tell the audience what was going on. And I think this arc for her is 100% GoT. Her being the prophesized good guy and then actually winning at the end of the story is more Tolkien than Martin. There were plenty of bigger problems in this episode IMO. Suddenly those ballistas aren't shooting 100%. Dumb. Euron surviving dragon fire. Dumb. Jaime really coming back to be with/save Cersei. Dumb. Cersei having the least satisfying death for a show villain ever. Dumb. (The two of them dying at the same time was nice, but a little too cute). Arya getting 99% of the way to her goal and then stopping just because the Hound tells her to not be stupid. Dumb. The Clegane Bowl was fun to watch, but had zero stakes. Dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: It was strange when Jon said he loved her and then she got close and he was like nah not really tho Yeah, like he now only loves her as his queen but also as his family (auntie). Once you dive in and go spelunking Jon, there’s no going back! Edited May 13, 2019 by Harper2Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Someone on the ASOIAF subreddit said the original plan was to have Rhaegal killed during the ringing of the bells and have Dany snap after that but they decided Episode 4 needed more shock value. That would have been far better than what happened. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, bmags said: I was a supporter of Dany turning bad but I have zero clue why she started indiscriminately flaming people. They can’t just expect a dramatic look to do that work. Her wanting to rule through fear doesn’t cut it. I think the key here is she no longer has the best claim to the throne and just watched as one of her trusted advisors tried to undermine over just that. Her only chance to get what she’s always felt she’s destined for (the throne) is now only achievable through fear and in this case outright slaughter. The desire for power at all costs has turned her into the tyrant she always said she’d rid the world of. Again, I think the producers really rushed this and should have built up this turn over more episodes. IMO, it was a mistake to make these last two seasons shortened ones as it’s taken away some much needed character development to help explain all the end-game motivations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, bmags said: A lot of people lose people and don’t start randomly killing innocents. It did not explain why she did it, and “well she’s crazy now! With rage!” Isn’t good enough. What would be a good explanation for her to do that though? Not sure there is one other than because she's pissed/crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Jenksismyhero said: Yeah I really wish they would have set this up a little better. They were offered 10 episodes and chose to do less. The couple of extra hours would have really helped sell the Dany gone Mad Queen angle. The more I think about it though, the bread crumbs are all there. She worked her entire life to regain the throne. She gets to Westeros and immediately her closest friends and allies either fuck things up, die, or stab her in the back. She loses two of her dragons. And then the one person she loved not only has a better claim to the throne, but is loved by everyone. And then the last straw is that he no longer wants to be with her. She has nothing left. There needed to be more build up to that moment with Jon to make it more believable, but I understand why they didn't want Jon to tell the audience what was going on. And I think this arc for her is 100% GoT. Her being the prophesized good guy and then actually winning at the end of the story is more Tolkien than Martin. There were plenty of bigger problems in this episode IMO. Suddenly those ballistas aren't shooting 100%. Dumb. Euron surviving dragon fire. Dumb. Jaime really coming back to be with/save Cersei. Dumb. Cersei having the least satisfying death for a show villain ever. Dumb. (The two of them dying at the same time was nice, but a little too cute). Arya getting 99% of the way to her goal and then stopping just because the Hound tells her to not be stupid. Dumb. The Clegane Bowl was fun to watch, but had zero stakes. Dumb. I thought it was good that the stupid dragon strategy changed for the better. Dive bombing. I was fine with the scorpion ballistas not working after the dragon and Dany learned from the last time. Cersei and Jamie’s death was definitely lame. Also, it wasn’t Arya’s fight and they wanted to show that The Hound became human and showed concern for someone. I thought he Clegane Bowl was great and he killed his brother with fire (and himself). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, OmarComing25 said: Someone on the ASOIAF subreddit said the original plan was to have Rhaegal killed during the ringing of the bells and have Dany snap after that but they decided Episode 4 needed more shock value. That would have been far better than what happened. Rhaegal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, bmags said: A lot of people lose people and don’t start randomly killing innocents. It did not explain why she did it, and “well she’s crazy now! With rage!” Isn’t good enough. Yet people have been predicting this is how it ends from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said: I thought it was good that the stupid dragon strategy changed for the better. Dive bombing. I was fine with the scorpion ballistas not working after the dragon and Dany learned from the last time. Cersei and Jamie’s death was definitely lame. Also, it wasn’t Arya’s fight and they wanted to show that The Hound became human and showed concern for someone. I thought he Clegane Bowl was great and he killed his brother with fire (and himself). She's been saying for 4 or 5 seasons now that her entire purpose was to get revenge against the people who killed her family. She traveled all the way to King's Landing from Winterfell just to do that. And steps from her goal she stops and suddenly realizes that because of the risk of death she shouldn't do it? That's weak. And I think they set up that the Hound was becoming more "human" and cared for others, in his own way, the last 2-3 seasons. They didn't need another example of that. The problem with the Clegane Bowl was that it was for nothing. Who won didn't matter. The Mountain wasn't protecting Cersei or anyone else. It was just someone was going to die, and then the other was going to die from the fire/falling debris. I don't have a problem with the Hound killing himself to kill his brother, but without any stakes behind the fight it felt pretty hollow to me. Edited May 13, 2019 by Jenksismyhero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaDoc Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said: Rhaegal? The second dragon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) Yeah, the scorpion ballistas didn't stop working, they were just ambushed last time and this time they were ready for them. People were really looking for Cersei to get hers, but her dying with Jaime makes sense, but definitely a little underwhelming. Everyone wanted Arya to kill her and anything short of that was going to make people mad. The creators obviously valued one last scene with Jaime and Cersei over Arya killing her in a hall way as the city burns and where she was going to die anyway. I liked the exchange between the Hound and Arya, I feel like the Hound has been trying to talk Arya into not becoming him and it seemed to finally take hold. Although I don't think she is done yet. I'm going to miss the Hound, I love his shit attitude and general crankiness. Edited May 13, 2019 by GoSox05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 I liked Cersei's death. The kingdom literally crumbled on top of her. There's been a lot of stupid in the show, but this season makes total sense. In fairness, it's how I thought it would end... For the most part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said: She's been saying for 4 or 5 seasons now that her entire purpose was to get revenge against the people who killed her family. She traveled all the way to King's Landing from Winterfell just to do that. And steps from her goal she stops and suddenly realizes that because of the risk of death she shouldn't do it? That's weak. And I think they set up that the Hound was becoming more "human" and cared for others, in his own way, the last 2-3 seasons. They didn't need another example of that. The problem with the Clegane Bowl was that it was for nothing. Who won didn't matter. The Mountain wasn't protecting Cersei or anyone else. It was just someone was going to die, and then the other was going to die from the fire/falling debris. I don't have a problem with the Hound killing himself to kill his brother, but without any stakes behind the fight it felt pretty hollow to me. Arya's been on a suicide mission since season 1. She realized she has a purpose in the same episode Dany realized she no longer had a purpose. Is symbolism lost on all of you? I blame M Night Shyamalan. Everyone wants textbook story's with a twist now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) Arya's not done. I guarantee she slits Dany's throat. Also, Arya is the main character of the entire series, not Jon or Dany. Edited May 13, 2019 by TaylorStSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said: Arya's been on a suicide mission since season 1. She realized she has a purpose in the same episode Dany realized she no longer had a purpose. Is symbolism lost on all of you? I blame M Night Shyamalan. Everyone wants textbook story's with a twist now. Haha, this is true. I do like these endings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 They are going to have to stealth kill Dany, cause she is the only one with an army now and a dragon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said: She's been saying for 4 or 5 seasons now that her entire purpose was to get revenge against the people who killed her family. She traveled all the way to King's Landing from Winterfell just to do that. And steps from her goal she stops and suddenly realizes that because of the risk of death she shouldn't do it? That's weak. And I think they set up that the Hound was becoming more "human" and cared for others, in his own way, the last 2-3 seasons. They didn't need another example of that. The problem with the Clegane Bowl was that it was for nothing. Who won didn't matter. The Mountain wasn't protecting Cersei or anyone else. It was just someone was going to die, and then the other was going to die from the fire/falling debris. I don't have a problem with the Hound killing himself to kill his brother, but without any stakes behind the fight it felt pretty hollow to me. Wasn’t it revenge for his brother torturing and mutilating him (i.e. burning his face) when he was younger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, GoSox05 said: They are going to have to stealth kill Dany, cause she is the only one with an army now and a dragon. The only question is whose face Arya will wear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: The only question is whose face Arya will wear Jon would be epic... and if she somehow does it in secret and is able to blame some one else for her death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Arya's been on a suicide mission since season 1. She realized she has a purpose in the same episode Dany realized she no longer had a purpose. Is symbolism lost on all of you? I blame M Night Shyamalan. Everyone wants textbook story's with a twist now. If the realization is for her to kill Dany instead of Cersei, that comes well after her decision to turn around. The Hound tells her that Cersei is going to die anyway and to not become him (e.g., a monster with a single minded goal of revenge). There is no connection between her decision to turn around and her realization that Dany is now her target. IF they had written the episode better and IF it was clear that Arya recognized this, then sure, it would be a great reason for her to turn around. And BTW, Arya killing Cersei is not a "twist." It's literally what everyone has been expecting for years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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