WBWSF Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 How much longer will Nova and Santana be in the White Sox starting rotation? Better yet, how much longer will Nova and Santana be on the White Sox team? In 2016 Matt Latos was in the starting rotation and was 6-2 with a ERA of 4.62. Hahn took Latos off the team. I won't even post the 2019 records of Nova and Santana. Simply put, there records are BRUTAL. I know enough about Hahn to know that he is a stubborn man who doesn't like to admit to mistakes. I think its fair to say that both Nova and Santana are not only mistakes, they are disasters. The White Sox best pitching prospect is Cease. Every other MLB team would love to have him in there rotation now. Yet he hasn't been brought up and the team is subjected to two bums like Nova and Santana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, WBWSF said: How much longer will Nova and Santana be in the White Sox starting rotation? Better yet, how much longer will Nova and Santana be on the White Sox team? In 2016 Matt Latos was in the starting rotation and was 6-2 with a ERA of 4.62. Hahn took Latos off the team. I won't even post the 2019 records of Nova and Santana. Simply put, there records are BRUTAL. I know enough about Hahn to know that he is a stubborn man who doesn't like to admit to mistakes. I think its fair to say that both Nova and Santana are not only mistakes, they are disasters. The White Sox best pitching prospect is Cease. Every other MLB team would love to have him in there rotation now. Yet he hasn't been brought up and the team is subjected to two bums like Nova and Santana. Cease isn't the answer right now. But I'd rather see Banuelos and Covey than Santana and Nova. Or even give Fulmer another shot. Anyone really. I'd give Charlie Tilson a shot at starting... Edited April 25, 2019 by turnin' two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 The only reason to let veterans like Nova and Santana pitch, is that they might be able to net someone, in a trade. However, at the rate they're going, that isn't likely. I agree with those who would rather see guys who could be part of the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Lillian said: The only reason to let veterans like Nova and Santana pitch, is that they might be able to net someone, in a trade. However, at the rate they're going, that isn't likely. I agree with those who would rather see guys who could be part of the future. $13.4 million dollars turned into fire kindling in one offseason. No team will even take on their money, much less give up a lottery ticket prospect for them. Rick has got to freaking go. Edited April 25, 2019 by Harper2Sox 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 They removed Latos from the rotation in 2016 because they thought they were playoff contenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, fathom said: They removed Latos from the rotation in 2016 because they thought they were playoff contenders. And then they traded Tatis Jr. for Shields because they still thought they had a shot. Always remember. https://www.mlb.com/news/padres-trade-james-shields-to-white-sox/c-182127960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 19 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said: $13.4 million dollars turned into fire kindling in one offseason. No team will even take on their money, much less give up a lottery ticket prospect for them. Rick has got to freaking go. So who is the talent evaluator who makes the final call on who we acquire? I know in the case of Machado/Harper that JR is the final call. Everyone agrees that both players have pluses. The disagreement comes in when we discuss how high to go in salary negotiation. Does RH get a scouting report on Alonzo and say we'll give him 9 mill and an option or is Kenny & JR in on it. How about when it's only 4 mil for Santana. Someone must be the talent evaluator and that person isn't very good sometimes. Neither RH or JR are baseball skills evaluators. Just like most of us... they watch lots of games and have their opinions. Someone is being paid to be that baseball evaluating professional. If it's Kenny I would like to know. Someone has to have looked at Nova, Santana and Alonzo and decided we were getting good value for the money. If what they are really doing is group think then the group needs to be held accountable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Great thread. Nova still has some rope. Two more outings like the last one and I may change my tune. I'd guess Santana is gone soon or put on the DL if he doesn't show something. He's looked like a softball pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 21 minutes ago, poppysox said: So who is the talent evaluator who makes the final call on who we acquire? I know in the case of Machado/Harper that JR is the final call. Everyone agrees that both players have pluses. The disagreement comes in when we discuss how high to go in salary negotiation. Does RH get a scouting report on Alonzo and say we'll give him 9 mill and an option or is Kenny & JR in on it. How about when it's only 4 mil for Santana. Someone must be the talent evaluator and that person isn't very good sometimes. Neither RH or JR are baseball skills evaluators. Just like most of us... they watch lots of games and have their opinions. Someone is being paid to be that baseball evaluating professional. If it's Kenny I would like to know. Someone has to have looked at Nova, Santana and Alonzo and decided we were getting good value for the money. If what they are really doing is group think then the group needs to be held accountable. I wish they'd ask super fans their opinion before acquiring certain stiffs. For instance I'd have screamed NO PLEASE NO on John Jay as well as Alonso. I'm sure many of you would have screamed NO on the Shields acquisition for a potential stud. Laugh at my suggestion, but at least super fans could express their concerns and why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 8 hours ago, greg775 said: I wish they'd ask super fans their opinion before acquiring certain stiffs. For instance I'd have screamed NO PLEASE NO on John Jay as well as Alonso. I'm sure many of you would have screamed NO on the Shields acquisition for a potential stud. Laugh at my suggestion, but at least super fans could express their concerns and why. I guess what's the harm. I mean, we're 30th of 30 teams in wins since our current GM took over, you could have done something nonsensical like move Anderson to catcher and you still literally couldn't do worse than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 12 hours ago, Lillian said: The only reason to let veterans like Nova and Santana pitch, is that they might be able to net someone, in a trade. However, at the rate they're going, that isn't likely. I agree with those who would rather see guys who could be part of the future. Nova and Santana could completely turn it around and make the All Star team, and they're still not going to return anything of substance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 It's just another tank year. You know you're going to be picking top 5 when your losing games to the Orioles because of guys like Nova and Santana being a part of your rotation. We might've been swept if not for Banuelos actually having a good game. Next year, I expect it will be much different. Kopech Cease Rodon Lopez Giolito Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 I'd be happy to see Stephens over Santana at the 5th spot at this point. Banuelos for Nova and Stephens for Santana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 15 hours ago, Harper2Sox said: And then they traded Tatis Jr. for Shields because they still thought they had a shot. Always remember. https://www.mlb.com/news/padres-trade-james-shields-to-white-sox/c-182127960 Oh man, I had almost forgotten about the trade until you dropped this link. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Quin said: Oh man, I had almost forgotten about the trade until you dropped this link. And if you look at the soxtalk thread from 2016, it seems like nobody was concerned about giving up Tatis, even though they all knew he would be the #1 prospect in all of baseball. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 minute ago, GermanSoxFan said: And if you look at the soxtalk thread from 2016, it seems like nobody was concerned about giving up Tatis, even though they all knew he would be the #1 prospect in all of baseball. ? Yeah, whenever he gets mentioned its mostly that 1) He's a lottery ticket (which is still true - he just happened to be the winning ticket) 2) Why are we giving up anything other than Erik Johnson? We had basically 0 insight into Tatis back then. The only reason people disliked it was because it was acquiring James Shields, who we all basically hated. I still think SoxTalk basically willed Tatis the super prospect into being. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 56 minutes ago, Quin said: Yeah, whenever he gets mentioned its mostly that 1) He's a lottery ticket (which is still true - he just happened to be the winning ticket) 2) Why are we giving up anything other than Erik Johnson? We had basically 0 insight into Tatis back then. The only reason people disliked it was because it was acquiring James Shields, who we all basically hated. I still think SoxTalk basically willed Tatis the super prospect into being. Ha! If Soxtalk had this power, it would definitely be used as something that is negative for the Sox. Haha. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 When an organization works toward a common goal investing much effort and many millions, then a trip to Baltimore makes it all worth while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 21 hours ago, South Sider said: It's just another tank year. You know you're going to be picking top 5 when your losing games to the Orioles because of guys like Nova and Santana being a part of your rotation. We might've been swept if not for Banuelos actually having a good game. Next year, I expect it will be much different. Kopech Cease Rodon Lopez Giolito That starting rotation plus Madrigal & Robert and you have a team worth watching. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 1 hour ago, poppysox said: That starting rotation plus Madrigal & Robert and you have a team worth watching. I'm not sure on that starting rotation yet. Every single one of them has a big question mark or two, at least for 2020, especially given how this year has started. Have Giolito and Lopez convinced you of anything yet? Rodon has been inconsistent his entire career and so far he's lost 2 mph on his fastball from pre-surgery. Cease would be basically a rookie. Kopech would be a rookie coming back from TJS. It's a talented rotation, but it could just as easily be the worst rotation in the league as it could be a top rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 I'm fully a believer in this corbin'ing version of Rodon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I'm not sure on that starting rotation yet. Every single one of them has a big question mark or two, at least for 2020, especially given how this year has started. Have Giolito and Lopez convinced you of anything yet? Rodon has been inconsistent his entire career and so far he's lost 2 mph on his fastball from pre-surgery. Cease would be basically a rookie. Kopech would be a rookie coming back from TJS. It's a talented rotation, but it could just as easily be the worst rotation in the league as it could be a top rotation. Still at least worth watching. Watching the progress of Rodon, Kopech, Cease, Lopez and Giolito and least gives you a reason to tune into every game. Edit: although, I would bet on them adding a starter in some way. Edited April 26, 2019 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, bmags said: I'm fully a believer in this corbin'ing version of Rodon. Me too. The stuff is clearly there. It is just harnessing it and staying healthy. Carlos has everything he needs to be a dominant starter. He, Yoan and Tim could be (and have been) the silver lining to this crap sandwich of a season. Edited April 26, 2019 by turnin' two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, turnin' two said: Me too. The stuff is clearly there. It is just harnessing it and staying healthy. Carlos has everything he needs to be a dominant starter. He, Yoan and Tim could be (and have been) the silver lining to this crap sandwich of a season. Don't count Gio out either. He looked like he was about to turn a corner before he got injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 I'm usually more tolerant of veterans signed or traded for. I'd typically be willing to give them more rope. But I'm absolutely done with seeing Santana pitch. He has nothing out there. I'm getting close to being done with Nova, too. He showed a couple times that he might be serviceable, but that's about it. At this point, I'd rather see Banuelos, Fulmer, or Covey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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