How Much Longer?

[Chisox378]

5 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

I'm usually more tolerant of veterans signed or traded for.  I'd typically be willing to give them more rope.  But I'm absolutely done with seeing Santana pitch.  He has nothing out there.  I'm getting close to being done with Nova, too.  He showed a couple times that he might be serviceable, but that's about it.  At this point, I'd rather see Banuelos, Fulmer, or Covey.

That's really who we should have started the season with..Fulmer, Covey....but I would have probably signed Nova if I thought he was going to pitch his usual 4era. I think Hahn just wants to deal guys for prospects and doesn't care about the current team and chemistry. Which is unfortunate.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Welp, and there goes Santana. 

 

 

 

[turnin' two]

30 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Don't count Gio out either. He looked like he was about to turn a corner before he got injured. 

I sure hope he rewards your faith in him.  It could be a game changer for the team.  Personally, I need to see more than 2 2/3 against a terrible Royals team before I even start to consider he could be a useful part of the future.  

[Jack Parkman]

10 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

I sure hope he rewards your faith in him.  It could be a game changer for the team.  Personally, I need to see more than 2 2/3 against a terrible Royals team before I even start to consider he could be a useful part of the future.  

Pitching the way he did vs the Jankees in a monsoon told me a lot. Showed a lot of guts in that start. 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[turnin' two]

18 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Pitching the way he did vs the Jankees in a monsoon told me a lot. Showed a lot of guts in that start. 

But not the ability to limit runs and get outs.  

[Jack Parkman]

18 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

But not the ability to limit runs and get outs.  

The seeds for improvement are there. The peripherals are good this year. 

18.2 IP, 23 K 10 BB and 15 H. 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[turnin' two]

21 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The seeds for improvement are there. The peripherals are good this year. 

18.2 IP, 23 K 10 BB and 15 H. 

That is true.  The walks being down are a great sign.  Reason for hope.

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

I'm fully a believer in this corbin'ing version of Rodon.

 

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

Don't count Gio out either. He looked like he was about to turn a corner before he got injured. 

I would say don't count any of them out - in fact I would say that, barring injury or trade, they should all have a clear rotation slot in 2020. What I would say is - what are the odds that all of them work out well enough for that to even be a solid rotation? Rodon becomes Corbin, Gio and Lopez turn corners, the rookies don't struggle, no one gets majorly injured?

We saw people playing exactly this game over the offseason when they were projecting ways for the White Sox to be competitive this year - it's nice and happy to assume that everything is going to go right. It's not likely that everything will go wrong either, the most likely end result is somewhere in the middle...and then you have to ask "is that good enough to achieve the goal you just set"? If a couple of these guys are good (yay) but one gets hurt and 2 more continue to have various struggles, is that a competitive rotation? 

[bmags]

28 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

 

I would say don't count any of them out - in fact I would say that, barring injury or trade, they should all have a clear rotation slot in 2020. What I would say is - what are the odds that all of them work out well enough for that to even be a solid rotation? Rodon becomes Corbin, Gio and Lopez turn corners, the rookies don't struggle, no one gets majorly injured?

We saw people playing exactly this game over the offseason when they were projecting ways for the White Sox to be competitive this year - it's nice and happy to assume that everything is going to go right. It's not likely that everything will go wrong either, the most likely end result is somewhere in the middle...and then you have to ask "is that good enough to achieve the goal you just set"? If a couple of these guys are good (yay) but one gets hurt and 2 more continue to have various struggles, is that a competitive rotation? 

Oh I wouldn't bet on that rotation at all, I'd definitely add a guy. But I'm glad Rodon was like "#$%*($ trying to make me a fastball pitcher, I'm just going to throw this unhittable pitch over and over again"

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

23 hours ago, turnin' two said:

Ha!  If Soxtalk had this power, it would definitely be used as something that is negative for the Sox.  Haha.

It's always interesting how the sons of former MLB players do. Among the current guys in majors or minors doing well are  Bellinger ,Tatis, Biggio, Bo  ( not Dante Jr.) Bichette, Guerrero Jr., McCullers, Jr. Dee Gordon, Mondesi, Joc Pederson, and Travis Shaw.

Often forgotten is Robinson Cano's dad had a very brief MLB career.  Of course many more sons never carve out much of a career but when they do some surpass or equal their fathers careers like Griffey, Jr. , Bonds, the Alomar Brothers, Buddy Bell ,Prince Fielder, and Bob Boone and then his sons Bret and Aaron.

The Sox haven't had much luck with father/son combos .Vance Law, Jerry Hairston, Jr.,Nick Swisher ,  Jaime Navarro , the Alomars , Griffey, Jr. LaRoche at the ends of their careers. Steve Trout might be the biggest success the Sox had with a son of a former MLB player.

Of course there are guys like Tatis Jr. and the late developing once he left the Sox organization Carlos Martinez.

[poppysox]

3 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Welp, and there goes Santana. 

 

 

 

Good News!

[Two-Gun Pete]

33 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Good News!

OK, I'll bite. Exactly how is this "good news?"

Is it "good news" reaffirming that this organization is dumb and incompetent?

Is it "good news" that for a mere $5MM/year *10 years more than their stupid offer to MM, they could have signed an actual GOOD player, instead of the piles of crap they've signed?

Or, is it "fuck the epic, ongoing failures in talent evaluation and the cavalcade of wasted resources, all I care is that a bad player who was stupidly given a contract is cut from my bad team?"

 

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Two-Gun Pete

[poppysox]

1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

OK, I'll bite. Exactly how is this "good news?"

Is it "good news" reaffirming that this organization is dumb and incompetent?

Is it "good news" that for a mere $5MM/year *10 years more than their stupid offer to MM, they could have signed an actual GOOD player, instead of the piles of crap they've signed?

Or, is it "fuck the epic, ongoing failures in talent evaluation and the cavalcade of wasted resources, all I care is that a bad player who was stupidly given a contract is cut from my bad team?"

 

 

They admit their mistake and move on.  We don't need to look at Santana ever again.

[Balta1701]

10 hours ago, bmags said:

I'm fully a believer in this corbin'ing version of Rodon.

We have 2 Cease threads and he immediately gives up 6 runs and then Rodon drops 5+ in the 3rd inning to detroit after this post. I think these threads are bad for us.

[GradMc]

On 4/24/2019 at 10:12 PM, poppysox said:

So who is the talent evaluator who makes the final call on who we acquire?  I know in the case of Machado/Harper that JR is the final call.  Everyone agrees that both players have pluses.  The disagreement comes in when we discuss how high to go in salary negotiation.  Does RH get a scouting report on Alonzo and say we'll give him 9 mill and an option or is Kenny & JR in on it. How about when it's only 4 mil for Santana.  Someone must be the talent evaluator and that person isn't very good sometimes.  Neither RH or JR are baseball skills evaluators.  Just like most of us... they watch lots of games and have their opinions.  Someone is being paid to be that baseball evaluating professional.  If it's Kenny I would like to know.  Someone has to have looked at Nova, Santana and Alonzo and decided we were getting good value for the money.  If what they are really doing is group think then the group needs to be held accountable.

Reinsdorf is no better at talent evaluation than Kenny-Hahn. Proof is he put Kenny-Hahn in their current roles and his know-it-all massive ego keeps them there.

[poppysox]

10 minutes ago, GradMc said:

Reinsdorf is no better at talent evaluation than Kenny-Hahn. Proof is he put Kenny-Hahn in their current roles and his know-it-all massive ego keeps them there.

I think Hahn has his job because he is valued for contract negotiations  earned as a Harvard grad and agent.  His contract skills were well displayed in the Sale, Q, Anderson, etc. extensions.  Kenny is valued by Reinsdorf as a talent evaluator.  Reinsdorf just like you and I... thinks he knows quite a bit about baseball and am quite sure when Kenny/Hahn suggest someone he questions his advisors and blesses their decisions.  Where Jerry is different from us is holding advisors accountable.  I would guess that Jerry is guilty of loyalty...not stupidity.

[Lip Man 1]

37 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I think Hahn has his job because he is valued for contract negotiations  earned as a Harvard grad and agent.  His contract skills were well displayed in the Sale, Q, Anderson, etc. extensions.  Kenny is valued by Reinsdorf as a talent evaluator.  Reinsdorf just like you and I... thinks he knows quite a bit about baseball and am quite sure when Kenny/Hahn suggest someone he questions his advisors and blesses their decisions.  Where Jerry is different from us is holding advisors accountable.  I would guess that Jerry is guilty of loyalty...not stupidity.

I have been told in the past from two different sources that JR on Draft Day has "suggested" to his people whom to take. Now as owner he has the right to do whatever he wishes but I'd hate to be the scouting director say and have to try to tell the guy who signs my pay checks, "no...that's a bad idea."

My point is JR should not be doing that in the first place, he doesn't know, like the people who have made a living at this, know baseball and again it is putting those people in a very awkward situation. That's not good business sense in my opinion.

[WBWSF]

12 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I have been told in the past from two different sources that JR on Draft Day has "suggested" to his people whom to take. Now as owner he has the right to do whatever he wishes but I'd hate to be the scouting director say and have to try to tell the guy who signs my pay checks, "no...that's a bad idea."

My point is JR should not be doing that in the first place, he doesn't know, like the people who have made a living at this, know baseball and again it is putting those people in a very awkward situation. That's not good business sense in my opinion.

The only good thing JR has done as a White Sox owner is make a ton of money. Other than making money he has been a terrible owner.

[pcq]

There is room for disagreement on what to spend on FA's. People here get really juvenile and filthy. Meanwhile the market has been contracting. We should be so lucky to have Sale or Cabrera for five years.