Argument for Keeping Cease at AAA?

[ChiSox59]

Just now, mqr said:

Definitely think you can make a winning team out of those guys + what is in house.  

Definitely possible.  Grandal + Castellanos + Cole would be pretty neat, but it'll never happen.

C  - Grandal, 3B - Moncada, SS - Anderson, 2B - Yolmer, 1B - Abreu (resigned cheap for 2 years), LF - Eloy, CF - Leury, RF - Castellanos, DH - Cheap Vet

Eventually trade out Madrigal for Yolmer, Robert for Leury, shift Castellanos to DH / 1B when the first of Basabe/Adolfo/Rutherford/Gonzalez are ready.  Get Collins into DH/1B/ backup C  mix.    

Eventually sport a lineup of: 

C - Grandal

1B / DH - Castellanos / Collins

2B: Madrigal

SS: Anderson

3B: Moncada

LF: Eloy

CF: Robert

RF: Best of Basabe/Adolfo/Rutherford/Gonzalez

Rotation: Cole, Rodon, Kopech, Cease, Gio/Lopez 

Plenty of options to fill out a pen.

There is still a path to having a very nice (and inexpensive) ballclub by 2021, but who knows if we'll see it come to fruition. 

[turnin' two]

1 hour ago, mqr said:

Definitely think you can make a winning team out of those guys + what is in house.  

Edit: I don't mean adding *all* of those guys

Haha!  All of them would work.  I guess what we should really be looking at realistically, though, is who are the guys that are friends with JD, Rendon, etc.

[justBLAZE]

Thread needs to be closed ASAP.

[SCCWS]

5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Spending a bunch in the upcoming free agent market is unlikely to be the thing that puts you over the top. JD Martinez might be a difference maker at DH, but that's about it.

Just to be clear. If he goes FA,  JD Martinez will insist on playing the outfield for some number of games(20-25%). He is mediocre but not awful. 

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

Just to be clear. If he goes FA,  JD Martinez will insist on playing the outfield for some number of games(20-25%). He is mediocre but not awful. 

Well there is this thing called "Interleague"? If he's hitting well enough, bah. I don't like the signing, I'd hate spending money on another DH, but it's not like we left ourselves a lot of options. 

[greg775]

Cease is 23 fricking years old. He should be in the big leagues ... case closed. It's not that difficult, folks. Why does he have to be 24 before he gets the call? Think of all those wasted pitches with the same wear and tear on the arm as if he were in the bigs. 

First of all, 23 isn't that young. If he comes up and is miserable it's not because of his age. Somebody should take an anonymous poll of front office types around baseball and see if they think Cease should be in the bigs. He's never thrown more than 124 innings in a season, so I guess we have to keep him in the minors all year to gradually increase his workload or something. I don't like it.

[kitekrazy]

 I guess the only reason is to see a potential bright spot in a really sucky season. I'd prefer him to stay down. We'll see him in Sept. and the only constant is the sucky season.

[SCCWS]

12 hours ago, greg775 said:

Cease is 23 fricking years old. He should be in the big leagues ... case closed. It's not that difficult, folks. Why does he have to be 24 before he gets the call? Think of all those wasted pitches with the same wear and tear on the arm as if he were in the bigs. 

First of all, 23 isn't that young. If he comes up and is miserable it's not because of his age. Somebody should take an anonymous poll of front office types around baseball and see if they think Cease should be in the bigs. He's never thrown more than 124 innings in a season, so I guess we have to keep him in the minors all year to gradually increase his workload or something. I don't like it.

I agree 23 is not young.  But a pitcher who has not thrown 25 games above A Ball is not experienced.  Experience is probably more important than age.  The kid had a very short stint in AA never mind just geeting his feet wet in AAA.  I think he would be better getting at least 12-15 AAA starts.

[DirtySox]

Kopech and Cease are so cute. I can't wait until they are both in the rotation.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Kopech is a cool ass dude.

[poppysox]

28 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

Kopech and Cease are so cute. I can't wait until they are both in the rotation.

 

Really unusual comment.  Hope he's right.

[SoxAce]

3 hours ago, DirtySox said:

Kopech and Cease are so cute. I can't wait until they are both in the rotation.

 

The feels.

[GradMc]

I wonder what the sentiment would be if we were talking about 20  year old Tatis Jr.

SD ownership certainly didn't have a problem bringing him up.

We tend to see baseball and basketball operations strictly through Reinsdorfian lenses which is a terrible perspective for a lover of sports and athletic competition.

However, to a cold-blooded bean counter, Reinsdorf is a first ballot HOF inductee. 

If I owned the Sox, at least Robert and Cease would be on the parent club.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by GradMc

[SCCWS]

34 minutes ago, GradMc said:

I wonder what the sentiment would be if we were talking about 20  year old Tatis Jr.

SD ownership certainly didn't have a problem bringing him up.

We tend to see baseball and basketball operations strictly through Reinsdorfian lenses which is a terrible perspective for a lover of sports and athletic competition.

However, to a cold-blooded bean counter, Reinsdorf is a first ballot HOF inductee. 

If I owned the Sox, at least Robert and Cease would be on the parent club.

 

 

White Sox aside. How many starting pitchers in the majors skipped AAA.  How many position players went to the Majors right from A ball. 

I think Robert needs to at least play 1 year in AA/AAA and Cease needs to spend 2-3 months in AAA. 

[Chicago White Sox]

On 4/25/2019 at 4:23 PM, ChiSox59 said:

Definitely possible.  Grandal + Castellanos + Cole would be pretty neat, but it'll never happen.

C  - Grandal, 3B - Moncada, SS - Anderson, 2B - Yolmer, 1B - Abreu (resigned cheap for 2 years), LF - Eloy, CF - Leury, RF - Castellanos, DH - Cheap Vet

Eventually trade out Madrigal for Yolmer, Robert for Leury, shift Castellanos to DH / 1B when the first of Basabe/Adolfo/Rutherford/Gonzalez are ready.  Get Collins into DH/1B/ backup C  mix.    

Eventually sport a lineup of: 

C - Grandal

1B / DH - Castellanos / Collins

2B: Madrigal

SS: Anderson

3B: Moncada

LF: Eloy

CF: Robert

RF: Best of Basabe/Adolfo/Rutherford/Gonzalez

Rotation: Cole, Rodon, Kopech, Cease, Gio/Lopez 

Plenty of options to fill out a pen.

There is still a path to having a very nice (and inexpensive) ballclub by 2021, but who knows if we'll see it come to fruition. 

I like you’re thinking here, but would propose something a little different.  As much as Cole would be the ideal ace to lead a young staff, I think it’s a pipe dream at this point.  Instead, I’m going to propose we sign Zack Wheeler, who should come considerably cheaper (due to his injury history) but can still be a ~4 win pitcher.  And instead of Castellanos, I think we should sign Marcell Ozuna.  With all the AA OFs currently struggling and Eloy looking ugly AF in LF, I think we have to add one established OF.  Ozuna makes the makes sense to me because of his age, arm (allowing him to play RF if needed), and power profile fitting well at the Rate.  Add those three guys and here’s how things could look the next two years:

             2020 (OD)               2021 (OD)

1. Moncada#, 3B   /   Moncada#, 3B
2. Anderson, SS     /   Anderson, SS
3. Jimenez, LF        /    Jimenez, DH
4. Abreu, DH         /    Collins*, 1B
5. Grandal#, C      /    Ozuna, RF
6. Ozuna, RF.        /    Grandal#, C
7. Collins*, 1B      /    Robert, CF
8. Sanchez#, 2B   /    Basabe#, LF
9. L. Garcia#, CF   /   Madrigal, 2B

Rotation: Wheeler, Kopech, Cease, plus two of Giolito, Lopez, Rodon (if not traded), Dunning, & Lambert.

I honestly think that 2021 roster looks legit and Robert, Madrigal, & Basabe (or another OF prospect) should be up at some point in 2020.  The biggest wild card here would be Collins at 1B, which is why I’d like to see him called ASAP to help see what we may have in him.

Also, all else being equal, I’d prioritize Witt & Abrams over Vaughn.  Let me clear here, I’m 100% for BPA, but I don’t think if things are close we should go with Vaughn because of proximity to the majors.  I personally love Witt and think he’d be the ideal selection either way.

[SCCWS]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I like you’re thinking here, but would propose something a little different.  As much as Cole would be the ideal ace to lead a young staff, I think it’s a pipe dream at this point.  Instead, I’m going to propose we sign Zack Wheeler, who should come considerably cheaper (due to his injury history) but can still be a ~4 win pitcher.  And instead of Castellanos, I think we should sign Marcell Ozuna.  With all the AA OFs currently struggling and Eloy looking ugly AF in LF, I think we have to add one established OF.  Ozuna makes the makes sense to me because of his age, arm (allowing him to play RF if needed), and power profile fitting well at the Rate.  Add those three guys and here’s how things could look the next two years:

             2020 (OD)               2021 (OD)

1. Moncada#, 3B   /   Moncada#, 3B
2. Anderson, SS     /   Anderson, SS
3. Jimenez, LF        /    Jimenez, DH
4. Abreu, DH         /    Collins*, 1B
5. Grandal#, C      /    Ozuna, RF
6. Ozuna, RF.        /    Grandal#, C
7. Collins*, 1B      /    Robert, CF
8. Sanchez#, 2B   /    Basabe#, LF
9. L. Garcia#, CF   /   Madrigal, 2B

Rotation: Wheeler, Kopech, Cease, plus two of Giolito, Lopez, Rodon (if not traded), Dunning, & Lambert.

I honestly think that 2021 roster looks legit and Robert, Madrigal, & Basabe (or another OF prospect) should be up at some point in 2020.  The biggest wild card here would be Collins at 1B, which is why I’d like to see him called ASAP to help see what we may have in him.

Also, all else being equal, I’d prioritize Witt & Abrams over Vaughn.  Let me clear here, I’m 100% for BPA, but I don’t think if things are close we should go with Vaughn because of proximity to the majors.  I personally love Witt and think he’d be the ideal selection either way.

Are you saying call him up and let him catch and if that fails then convert him to a !B back in AAA? 

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, SCCWS said:

Are you saying call him up and let him catch and if that fails then convert him to a !B back in AAA? 

I’m suggesting calling him up and letting him focus on hitting, which means making him a full-time 1B.  Everything we’ve heard is that Collins is a poor receiver and if true I think we’re getting to the point where that isn’t going to change materially.  What does look promising is how his bat is responding to the juiced ball and a better hitter environment (he’s currently sporting a 150 wRC+ in AAA).  If he can figure out a way to be more aggressive with two strikes he could be even better.  I really want to see what we have in this kid offensively and that may mean abandoning the catcher experiment.

[Jack Parkman]

On 4/26/2019 at 3:38 PM, DirtySox said:

Kopech and Cease are so cute. I can't wait until they are both in the rotation.

 

Wow, that takes brass balls to say that as a pro athlete. 

[SCCWS]

10 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m suggesting calling him up and letting him focus on hitting, which means making him a full-time 1B.  Everything we’ve heard is that Collins is a poor receiver and if true I think we’re getting to the point where that isn’t going to change materially.  What does look promising is how his bat is responding to the juiced ball and a better hitter environment (he’s currently sporting a 150 wRC+ in AAA).  If he can figure out a way to be more aggressive with two strikes he could be even better.  I really want to see what we have in this kid offensively and that may mean abandoning the catcher experiment.

I agree with your idea, but the Sox would be better off moving him to 1st in Charlotte. It is really difficult trying to learn a new position in the majors. He has been working at !B in the minors but I guess not in games.   

[ChiSox59]

On 4/28/2019 at 7:02 AM, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m suggesting calling him up and letting him focus on hitting, which means making him a full-time 1B.  Everything we’ve heard is that Collins is a poor receiver and if true I think we’re getting to the point where that isn’t going to change materially.  What does look promising is how his bat is responding to the juiced ball and a better hitter environment (he’s currently sporting a 150 wRC+ in AAA).  If he can figure out a way to be more aggressive with two strikes he could be even better.  I really want to see what we have in this kid offensively and that may mean abandoning the catcher experiment.

I just really don't think there is any benefit to removing all doubt about Collins being a catcher at this point.  We can always move him to 1b.  Once that happens, there is 99% chance its never going back.  We'll always have that option.  I would prefer to use him as any early career Gattis/Carlos Santana/ Napoli type, then just making him a DH/1B only right away.

 

On 4/28/2019 at 6:45 AM, Chicago White Sox said:

And instead of Castellanos, I think we should sign Marcell Ozuna.  With all the AA OFs currently struggling and Eloy looking ugly AF in LF, I think we have to add one established OF.  Ozuna makes the makes sense to me because of his age, arm (allowing him to play RF if needed), and power profile fitting well at the Rate.  Add those three guys and here’s how things could look the next two years:

I'd be fine with Ozuna or Castellanos.  I think Castellanos would be a bit cheaper.  Both are poor defenders.  

[ChiSoxFanMike]

On the topic of Collins, I also think he's best suited for 1B long term. I really believe his bat will be good enough to play at that spot and not catching all that often would save so much wear and tear on his body. I'd personally like to see the Sox sign Grandal this coming offseason. Zavala can be the backup and Collins can be the emergency 3rd catcher and start at that spot maybe once a week to increase his versatility. Abreu can then transition to DH if they decide to keep him around since Collins would play 1B most of the time. Seems like a win/win all the way around.

[chitownsportsfan]

2 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

On the topic of Collins, I also think he's best suited for 1B long term. I really believe his bat will be good enough to play at that spot and not catching all that often would save so much wear and tear on his body. I'd personally like to see the Sox sign Grandal this coming offseason. Zavala can be the backup and Collins can be the emergency 3rd catcher and start at that spot maybe once a week to increase his versatility. Abreu can then transition to DH if they decide to keep him around since Collins would play 1B most of the time. Seems like a win/win all the way around.

I like this idea quite a bit.  Not least because it transitions Jose to full time DH, long overdue.

[TheBlackSox8]

44 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I just really don't think there is any benefit to removing all doubt about Collins being a catcher at this point.  We can always move him to 1b.  Once that happens, there is 99% chance its never going back.  We'll always have that option.  I would prefer to use him as any early career Gattis/Carlos Santana/ Napoli type, then just making him a DH/1B only right away.

 

I'd be fine with Ozuna or Castellanos.  I think Castellanos would be a bit cheaper.  Both are poor defenders.  

Yeah, I agree...how did Ozuna win a Gold Glove?  

[mqr]

Just now, TheBlackSox8 said:

Yeah, I agree...how did Ozuna win a Gold Glove?  

Gold Gloves are dumb mostly