The Rick Hahn Haters thread, sponsored by Balta1701 and Jack Parkman

[Jack Parkman]

16 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

To me it's just growing up a Sox fan and never even thinking about changing allegiance. I love baseball . Sure I'd like to win more than we lose. But it's not about the owner or the GM . I just enjoy it and despite the losing I enjoy discussing baseball . Every day even knowing I won't likely see wins I tune in one way or another and hope for the best.

^^

That being said, it is approaching the point where we can declare  the rebuild a failure. 

[fathom]

8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

^^

That being said, it is approaching the point where we can declare  the rebuild a failure. 

Nah they still have a chance, but they have given themselves no margin for error going forward.

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Nah they still have a chance, but they have given themselves no margin for error going forward.

If they ever reach the point where there is no margin for error, then you can take it one step further and declare failure. Injuries always happen. 

[OneDog847]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

If they ever reach the point where there is no margin for error, then you can take it one step further and declare failure. Injuries always happen. 

Dude, rebuilds aren't linear. This one is just likely stuck in neutral for a couple years. The Sox should be competitive come 2022 or so. 

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, OneDog847 said:

Dude, rebuilds aren't linear. This one is just likely stuck in neutral for a couple years. The Sox should be competitive come 2022 or so. 

Not really. Most of their players time will be close to up. That is about the time where they'll have to make a decision to reboot or not. Not to mention the CBA is up that year, and nobody knows if baseball will be played. 

Edited May 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[OneDog847]

19 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Not really. Most of their players time will be close to up. That is about the time where they'll have to make a decision to reboot or not. Not to mention the CBA is up that year, and nobody knows if baseball will be played. 

Every single "core" player will be under control in 2022 and 2023. These will be the years the Sox need to make serious noise. 

People have been spoiled by the Cubs and Astros long competitive windows. The Sox rebuild will likely mirror Kansas City's at this juncture. 

[Jack Parkman]

30 minutes ago, OneDog847 said:

Every single "core" player will be under control in 2022 and 2023. These will be the years the Sox need to make serious noise. 

People have been spoiled by the Cubs and Astros long competitive windows. The Sox rebuild will likely mirror Kansas City's at this juncture. 

KC had a 4 year window. The Sox will be lucky to even have one open. 

[Moan4Yoan]

Can I call Herrera a bad signing for a non-competitive team now that his ERA is above 5?

[Lip Man 1]

3 hours ago, OneDog847 said:

Dude, rebuilds aren't linear. This one is just likely stuck in neutral for a couple years. The Sox should be competitive come 2022 or so. 

Now it's a six year rebuild....interesting.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Now it's a six year rebuild....interesting.

It'd be cool to have a soxtalk fan forum where we all could get together and tape a 2 hour special arguing topics. Greg would vehemently argue against rebuilds and against tanking. The clock keeps ticking, ticking. Now it's a 6 year rebuild?? Wow. Credit the Sox for making money and lots of it in such a losing environment.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

^^

That being said, it is approaching the point where we can declare  the rebuild a failure. 

Nah you're just being hopeless. Robert sure looks like the real deal and we have Kopech and Cease to eventually arrive, Dunning too. Will Cease be good ? Will Kopech and Dunning be good after TJ surgery ? Remains to be seen but they all were our top starting pitching prospects. Until they come back and display what they got the rebuild is on hold. That's just the way it is. Imagine the lineup without Moncada, Robert and Jimenez (who I have faith in as a hitter). That's the effect we are now seeing without our top pitching prospects,  And really of those 5 all we have now is Moncada .

[greg775]

6 hours ago, fathom said:

Nah they still have a chance, but they have given themselves no margin for error going forward.

They certainly are relying on a lot of players they drafted in the futuristic fans' beloved draft. 

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Nah you're just being hopeless. Robert sure looks like the real deal and we have Kopech and Cease to eventually arrive, Dunning too. Will Cease be good ? Will Kopech and Dunning be good after TJ surgery ? Remains to be seen but they all were our top starting pitching prospects. Until they come back and display what they got the rebuild is on hold. That's just the way it is. Imagine the lineup without Moncada, Robert and Jimenez (who I have faith in as a hitter). That's the effect we are now seeing without our top pitching prospects,  And really of those 5 all we have now is Moncada .

It has to come together over the next two seasons though. If they get to 2021 and they haven't broken 80 wins yet, it is too late. 

In my opinion, they have a 15-20% chance to actually get in contention. The margin for error is razor thin. No more injuries and underperformance. Jimenez needs to hit in 2020 at the latest. Moncada needs to take a step this year. Kopech and Cease have to get healthy, stay healthy and dominate. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It has to come together over the next two seasons though. If they get to 2021 and they haven't broken 80 wins yet, it is too late. 

One step at a time. What happens will happen. Still so much ahead that we cannot see the future. Free agents or surprises in development , future draft picks and trades will turn the current roster upside down. And yes the opposite can happen. Even more injuries and more bad draft picks but no sense getting all worked up about it now.

[greg775]

19 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

One step at a time. What happens will happen. Still so much ahead that we cannot see the future. 

I long for the days my favorite team at least tried to win. It was fun going into a season thinking we had a chance and not being OK with the Cub saying, "Wait til next year." Next year blows. I want to win now.

Edited May 6, 2019 by greg775

[tray]

Pitching shortcomings got magnified against a hot hitting Boston line-up.

Hopefully things will eventually settle down a bit in our rotation and bullpen.

Unfortunately we go to Cleveland next and they will have no mercy.

Steve Stone tried to assuage fans that things will get better.  Hang in there men.

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by tray

[GradMc]

On 5/2/2019 at 11:36 AM, Dick Allen said:

He actually should be a hero. White Sox fans like to complain. He's given us many reasons.

Rick reminds me of the guys that used to make Dick Vitale's all airport team. Guys who looked good at the airport but couldn't play worth a damn. Rick is a bright guy, talks a good game, makes everything seem to make a lot of sense, and then loses,and loses, and loses. He looks and sounds the part, but the evidence suggests he should be doing something else.

Mergers and Acquisitions at GE ??

LOL...That wouldn't be a good fit either.

Perhaps in Public Relations.

He's definitely a Spin-Master 

[GradMc]

On 5/2/2019 at 11:48 AM, Jack Parkman said:

Yeah, 15 years ago. Kenny hasn't made a good move since the 2007-08 offseason.  Hahn has been bad for a while. Kenny should have been whacked with the conclusion of the 2009 season. Hahn should have been whacked on 7/1/2016. My gripe is and always has been that the guy that wasted Sale, Quintana, Abreu and Eaton shouldn't have been allowed to rebuild this team. 

Agree.

That's on Reinsdorf - but if the point is tank for increased owner wealth - Kenny-Hahn are the best money can buy. 

LOL.  That's probably why Reinsdorf vetoed Kenny's Toronto move.

[GradMc]

11 hours ago, OneDog847 said:

Dude, rebuilds aren't linear. This one is just likely stuck in neutral for a couple years. The Sox should be competitive come 2022 or so. 

Reinsdorf's rebuilds are circular....LOL

[GradMc]

On 5/2/2019 at 3:42 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I keep wondering where the idea came from to get a bunch of guys that Machado had good relationships with. Was it the whole front office ? Was it Hahn's , Kenny's or even Jerry's Idea. 

We have to remember that not only was it Alonso and Jay but Castillo earlier , then Colome and Nova who were on the WBC team with him. Did that friends and family plan start with Castillo and then they expanded it knowing all along they weren't likely to offer top dollars for him ? Obviously it ended in tragedy and if that was the plan starting with Castillo .Then Hahn, Kenny and Jerry all suck. But I have said all along that it's mostly Reinsdorf and I'm sticking with that.

We have to remember that Reinsdorf is loyal above all else and it could be he saw in Machado the same traits and formulated a plan that loyalty might win out of money. The fatal flaw in that thinking probably was if Reinsdorf was in the same position what would he do ? I 'm pretty confident in saying Jerry would've taken the bigger guaranteed payday too.

 

This Reinsdorf loyalty thing is a myth.

The guy has a massive ego and a know-it-all attitude. Getting rid of management folks - especially when you get to the Kenny-Hahn / Gar-Pax level causes the closest scrutiny into his own business acumen.

While he laments letting La Russa get away, we have NEVER heard him admit the even bigger mistake was naming Harrelson the GM in the first friggin' place. 

And we never will because again that's a direction reflection on him. 

[GradMc]

15 hours ago, OneDog847 said:

Every single "core" player will be under control in 2022 and 2023. These will be the years the Sox need to make serious noise. 

People have been spoiled by the Cubs and Astros long competitive windows. The Sox rebuild will likely mirror Kansas City's at this juncture. 

The Cubs and especially the Astros have committed, well-heeled ownership that employs superior, analytical decision-makers and talent-evaluators who bring skilled on-field difference makers into their respective organizations via the draft and various forms of domestic and international free-agency.

We don't.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by GradMc

[GradMc]

On 5/4/2019 at 9:32 PM, GreenSox said:

I just look at the Sox v. the Padres.  Started the rebuilds at the same time; both had made failed "go for it moves" a couple of seasons before.  The difference is that Preller mitigated his losses; Hahn didn't.  That put Preller close to an even start with Hahn despite Hahn having so much ammo to trade.  Then of course, he schooled Hahn in the Tatis trade; it's not surprising as Preller spent years in the weeds scouting talent, while Hahn sat in an office. And beyond Tatis, the difference is striking.

The dismal record, the failed 2013-2016 effort; the scorched earth disaster in June 2016.....and being so far behind the Padres.  Devotion to lifers, hiring buddies,  failure to modernize the front office with analytics.  When is enough enough?

The Chicago Bulls and White Sox provide a lot of case study examination in those graduate management programs.

[SCCWS]

7 hours ago, tray said:

Pitching shortcomings got magnified against a hot hitting Boston line-up.

Hopefully things will eventually settle down a bit in our rotation and bullpen.

Unfortunately we go to Cleveland next and they will have no mercy.

Steve Stone tried to assuage fans that things will get better.  Hang in there men.

 

You forgot the 28 walks we gave them

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

It has to come together over the next two seasons though. If they get to 2021 and they haven't broken 80 wins yet, it is too late. 

In my opinion, they have a 15-20% chance to actually get in contention. The margin for error is razor thin. No more injuries and underperformance. Jimenez needs to hit in 2020 at the latest. Moncada needs to take a step this year. Kopech and Cease have to get healthy, stay healthy and dominate. 

That's just tunnel vision . I know we all don't think the Sox can sign effective free agents but they can. It isn't that hard. JD Martinez a few years ago was an easy choice when the Red Sox were the only ones who wanted him. They can also make trades. There is no specific window until we see what everyone is capable of.

You seem to be worried some guys may reach FA before the newer arrivals get good. Too far down the road to care. You know you can always trade major league quality for other major league quality players or major league ready talent.

You could be right but what's the sense of worrying ? It's the Sox. You're a fan of one of the worst franchises in baseball history. You know the chances of a successful rebuild resulting in a World Series win are scarce anyway. Is your goal to show everyone you are smarter than people like me, who are just hopeful ,for predicting the obvious ? For the Sox, 4 or 5 winning seasons in a row is a coup . 4 or 5 playoffs appearances in a 5 or 7 year period is likely beyond our grasp.

I've lived to see the Bears win a Superbowl,  the Bulls 6 championships,  the Blackhawks 3 Stanley Cups and a White Sox World Series Winner. I actually feel blessed by all that.

[Jack Parkman]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

That's just tunnel vision . I know we all don't think the Sox can sign effective free agents but they can. It isn't that hard. JD Martinez a few years ago was an easy choice when the Red Sox were the only ones who wanted him. They can also make trades. There is no specific window until we see what everyone is capable of.

You seem to be worried some guys may reach FA before the newer arrivals get good. Too far down the road to care. You know you can always trade major league quality for other major league quality players or major league ready talent.

You could be right but what's the sense of worrying ? It's the Sox. You're a fan of one of the worst franchises in baseball history. You know the chances of a successful rebuild resulting in a World Series win are scarce anyway. Is your goal to show everyone you are smarter than people like me, who are just hopeful ,for predicting the obvious ? For the Sox, 4 or 5 winning seasons in a row is a coup . 4 or 5 playoffs appearances in a 5 or 7 year period is likely beyond our grasp.

I've lived to see the Bears win a Superbowl,  the Bulls 6 championships,  the Blackhawks 3 Stanley Cups and a White Sox World Series Winner. I actually feel blessed by all that.

I'm not saying that it is impossible, I just don't trust the morons running the FO to get the job done. Probably the healthiest way to look at it is to look at only known quantities and what is happening now. I can't help myself from thinking bigger picture, but the best approach is to just let this season play out and see what happens. Idk, maybe I need to lower my standards and not expect as much. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Jack Parkman