Balta1701 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Just now, mqr said: That's what I was thinking. Put together a rotation that's solid but not by any means great and hope the lineup will win you games. Gah, if you would have told me 2 years ago it would be the pitching staff that's the problem I would have said 'well, that's not good' OT: Other than Yelich, the brewers success is pretty baffling. I would have said this rebuild is a flop and a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Just now, Balta1701 said: I would have said this rebuild is a flop and a failure. I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 1 minute ago, mqr said: That's what I was thinking. Put together a rotation that's solid but not by any means great and hope the lineup will win you games. Gah, if you would have told me 2 years ago it would be the pitching staff that's the problem I would have said 'well, that's not good' OT: Other than Yelich, the brewers success is pretty baffling. Right. I'm pretty sure people on here said "we have too many pitching prospects" at one point. There is no such thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: Right. I'm pretty sure people on here said "we have too many pitching prospects" at one point. There is no such thing. Still have the pieces for a decent rotation though, especially if this version of Giolito can stick. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I think the idea that there's anyone other than Cole who is clear-cut better than Keuchel is wrong. Literally a few posts above you can see people worried about a Keuchel velocity drop - his fastball was 90.5 in his Cy Young year, 90.2 last year, and 89.3 in 2016 for his lowest. Then you added Porcello and Bumgarner as people you'd prefer - Both of them have comparable velocity drops to Keuchel, 93 to 91.5 for Bumgarner and 92.7 to 91.7 for Porcello and I didn't bother looking at the rest. So, the chances of any of these guys being a better than average starter in 2021...seems like a coin flip as well. All of these guys should scare you. Out of Wheeler, Keuchel, Porcello, and Bumgarner, I'd say there's a good chance 1 of them, maybe 2, will be guys a team is happy with in 2021. Pretty much all FA SP you sign in their early 30s are coinflips to be good a couple seasons down the road. Building rotations primarily out free agency is very difficult. Which is why it is huge that (hopefully) we have four rotation spots covered with Kopech, Cease, Lopez and Giolito. I do suspect at least 1 of those guys will make under 10 starts for the Sox in 2021, which is another reason why I suspect the Sox will try to work something out to keep Rodon around. Other impending FA that could be of interest (some have been mentioned, some haven't) are Wood, Wacha, Odorizzi, Pineda, Ryu, Gibson, and Roark. I would love to shoot for the moon and get Cole, but I realize those odds are long. I'd be fine with something in the middle like a combo of Wheeler/Wacha/Pineda/Gibson from the rightside paired with Wood, Ryu or Bumgarner from the leftside. Those guys shouldn't command huge pay days and long term contracts that could cripple the Sox if they fall apart. I personally prefer the younger guys of that group in Wood, Wacha and Wheeler. I am curious to see what kind of deal Bumgarner ends up with next year. He hasn't been the Bumgarner he was in his early and mid 20s, but obviously had big name recognition and the casual fan probably still thinks he is quite good. I personally think he'll stay in the NL though because he loves to hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 A lot of freaking out about a guy that over his last 150 innings produced 1.6 fWAR. Carlos Rodon was done as a front line starter the day he went under for shoulder surgery. This setup just further cements his future in the pen on another club. This is not a big step back for the rebuild. The rebuild is still tenuous but this doesn't move the needle much. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: A lot of freaking out about a guy that over his last 150 innings produced 1.6 fWAR. Carlos Rodon was done as a front line starter the day he went under for shoulder surgery. This setup just further cements his future in the pen on another club. This is not a big step back for the rebuild. The rebuild is still tenuous but this doesn't move the needle much. Agreed. Rodon was always a nice to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: A lot of freaking out about a guy that over his last 150 innings produced 1.6 fWAR. Carlos Rodon was done as a front line starter the day he went under for shoulder surgery. This setup just further cements his future in the pen on another club. This is not a big step back for the rebuild. The rebuild is still tenuous but this doesn't move the needle much. Agreed. I never really expected him to be here very long if he stayed healthy and pitched great, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Last year the Sox got like 5 fWAR total from their rotation. This year they are on pace for about 10. That's awesome. There has been some development on that front, despite losing Kopech. Gio and Lopez turning into cromulent 3rd and 4th starters is huge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 37 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Last year the Sox got like 5 fWAR total from their rotation. This year they are on pace for about 10. That's awesome. There has been some development on that front, despite losing Kopech. Gio and Lopez turning into cromulent 3rd and 4th starters is huge. Let’s not get carried away here. Rodon makes up nearly 40% of that 10 fWAR you’re forecasting. It would be great if Giolito & Lopez could turn into mid rotation pitchers, but that’s still not a guarantee at this point. That being said, I’m far more optimistic on Giolito than I’ve ever been and I’ve always believed in Lopez despite his slow start this year. IMO, we need to go out and sign the best starter we can next offseason. Ideally that’s Cole, but I’d happily take Wheeler. I think a rotation of Wheeler, Cease, Kopech, Giolito, & Lopez could be playoff caliber, especially with Dunning & Lambert waiting in the wings. I’d still love to bring back Rodon for as these past 12 months has taught me you can never have enough pitching depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 22 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Let’s not get carried away here. Rodon makes up nearly 40% of that 10 fWAR you’re forecasting. It would be great if Giolito & Lopez could turn into mid rotation pitchers, but that’s still not a guarantee at this point. That being said, I’m far more optimistic on Giolito than I’ve ever been and I’ve always believed in Lopez despite his slow start this year. IMO, we need to go out and sign the best starter we can next offseason. Ideally that’s Cole, but I’d happily take Wheeler. I think a rotation of Wheeler, Cease, Kopech, Giolito, & Lopez could be playoff caliber, especially with Dunning & Lambert waiting in the wings. I’d still love to bring back Rodon for as these past 12 months has taught me you can never have enough pitching depth. 2020 is likely just another tank year. I don't think the Sox should sign any FA pitchers if they miss out on Cole. The Sox can roll with a rotation of Kopech/Cease/Lopez/Giolito/ Banuelos/Lambert/Flores for 2020. See what you have with these guys and sign somebody after 2020 if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: 2020 is likely just another tank year. I don't think the Sox should sign any FA pitchers if they miss out on Cole. The Sox can roll with a rotation of Kopech/Cease/Lopez/Giolito/ Banuelos/Lambert/Flores for 2020. See what you have with these guys and sign somebody after 2020 if needed. It absolutely shouldn't be treated as such. That's the front office admitting failure. Edited May 3, 2019 by mqr 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flythesock Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said: Last year the Sox got like 5 fWAR total from their rotation. This year they are on pace for about 10. That's awesome. There has been some development on that front, despite losing Kopech. Gio and Lopez turning into cromulent 3rd and 4th starters is huge. Indeed, cromulent young arms embiggen even the thinnest pitching staffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: 2020 is likely just another tank year. I don't think the Sox should sign any FA pitchers if they miss out on Cole. The Sox can roll with a rotation of Kopech/Cease/Lopez/Giolito/ Banuelos/Lambert/Flores for 2020. See what you have with these guys and sign somebody after 2020 if needed. We’d be crazy to punt on full seasons of Moncada, Anderson, Jimenez, Giolito, Lopez, Cease, Kopech, potentially Collins, and partial seasons of Robert, Madrigal, etc. Starting next year we need to begin supplementing our talent in free agency and/or trade. Edited May 3, 2019 by Chicago White Sox 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 1 minute ago, mqr said: It absolutely shouldn't be treated as such. Unless JR decides to open up the checkbook next year is likely another tank year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: We’d be crazy to punt on full seasons of Moncada, Anderson, Jimenez, Giolito, Lopez, Cease, Kopech, potentially Collins, and partial seasons of Robert, Madrigal, etc. Starting next year we need to begin supplementing our talent in free agency and/or trade. It's be absolutely insane to punt on a season to pick a guy that likely wouldn't step foot on a field with Yoan Moncada, Reynaldo Lopez, or Lucas Giolito Edited May 3, 2019 by mqr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: We’d be crazy to punt on full seasons of Moncada, Anderson, Jimenez, Giolito, Lopez, Cease, Kopech, potentially Collins, and partial seasons of Robert, Madrigal, etc. Starting next year we need to begin supplementing our talent in free agency and/or trade. I just don't see anyway this team can compete next year without signing a bunch of mid tier free agents ala Laroche/Robertson/Melky and hoping that they all hit. We've seen that movie before already and the ending sucked.I would totally be in favor of signing a guy like Cole, Rendon, or JD Martinez but I have no confidence that JR is ever gonna pony up a 100 million dollar plus contract. 2020 will be another development year because the rebuild is being built from within and our top prospects still need more seasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 1 minute ago, OneDog847 said: I just don't see anyway this team can compete next year without signing a bunch of mid tier free agents ala Laroche/Robertson/Melky and hoping that they all hit. We've seen that movie before already and the ending sucked.I would totally be in favor of signing a guy like Cole, Rendon, or JD Martinez but I have no confidence that JR is ever gonna pony up a 100 million dollar plus contract. 2020 will be another development year because the rebuild is being built from within and our top prospects still need more seasoning. JDM shouldn’t cost $100M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: I just don't see anyway this team can compete next year without signing a bunch of mid tier free agents ala Laroche/Robertson/Melky and hoping that they all hit. We've seen that movie before already and the ending sucked.I would totally be in favor of signing a guy like Cole, Rendon, or JD Martinez but I have no confidence that JR is ever gonna pony up a 100 million dollar plus contract. 2020 will be another development year because the rebuild is being built from within and our top prospects still need more seasoning. They need to add a competent outfielder and a competent starting pitcher and hope for continued development. That might not get them there, but running guys like Garcia/Delmonico/Palka/Cordell out there every single day in 2020 is completely unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flythesock Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: JDM shouldn’t cost $100M He’s only 31 and one of the five or so best hitters in baseball. He’ll get his hundred million for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Just now, Flythesock said: He’s only 31 and one of the five or so best hitters in baseball. He’ll get his hundred million for sure. Nah. 4 years, $85-90M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Cole and Castellanos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flythesock Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Nah. 4 years, $85-90M We’ll see. If he puts up another big year then I think 4/100 or 5/115 is what it would take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 14 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: I just don't see anyway this team can compete next year without signing a bunch of mid tier free agents ala Laroche/Robertson/Melky and hoping that they all hit. We've seen that movie before already and the ending sucked.I would totally be in favor of signing a guy like Cole, Rendon, or JD Martinez but I have no confidence that JR is ever gonna pony up a 100 million dollar plus contract. 2020 will be another development year because the rebuild is being built from within and our top prospects still need more seasoning. No offense, but this is ridiculous. Just because we missed out on Machado doesn’t mean we won’t spend at all. We won’t be rocking a sub $70M payroll next year which is what you seem to be suggesting. Give me Wheeler, Grandal, & Ozuna (which would be well within our budget) and we’d have a great shot at winning the division next year IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said: Cole and Castellanos. Castellanos would be alooooooooooooooooooooooot of pressure on Robert to be good in center Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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