adam engel or charlie tilson?

[Kyyle23]

That's neither a prediction or a limit, that's a peyote dream.  Tilson will not hit .280 and steal 40 lol

[ChiSox59]

26 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

Let's say Tilson worked hard this offseason and improved very much. If he is hitting .333 in Charlotte and continues to get better there is no reason why he cant hit .280. Thats a 60 point drop from Charlotte. You act as if I had him at .320 at the MLB level. He can do that as well,  I dont put limits on players, but just give predictions.

If the Sox gave Charlie Tilson a full season of at bats, I’d be shocked if his OBP was .280, let alone his batting average. And 40 steals? Cmon man. At least try to pay attention. 

[Chisox378]

Tilson has a good thankful attitude towards the game, he has earned another shot, we cant put our players in a bubble especially when he is batting .333 in Charlotte.  He has a good short swing, keeps his head still, is fast, and hustles. I'm excited to see what he can do.

[Moan4Yoan]

Are some of these posters just joke/troll accounts?  ?

[zisk]

16 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said:

Are some of these posters just joke/troll accounts?  ?

Probably, but he's got 2 hits and scored a pair of runs tonite. P.S. he's not Adam Engel.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

14 hours ago, Harper2Sox said:

Are some of these posters just joke/troll accounts?  ?

Now I guess you know why people say the same about you. Overly negative or overly positive makes people wonder. I like overly positive better.

 I don't think batting . 280 is a reach. Last year he had 120 PA and hit .264 with a .331 OBP with the Sox. 40  steals is more of a reach. Very few nowadays steal 40. The stolen base is mostly out of vogue.

In his Sox career he is 31 for 112 . That's .277 . OBP is .341 .

Edited May 7, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[ChiSox59]

A nice article from fegan on the Athletic yesterday about Tilson.  His leg injuries really affected his ability to use his lower half the past couple years and he said he's just this season finally getting the feel back.  He looked good yesterday.  Happy to give him a look, though I am not expecting a bunch.  And that is ok.

Give em' hell, Charlie. 

[Moan4Yoan]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Now I guess you know why people say the same about you. Overly negative or overly positive makes people wonder. I like overly positive better.

 I don't think batting . 280 is a reach. Last year he had 120 PA and hit .264 with a .331 OBP with the Sox. 40  steals is more of a reach. Very few nowadays steal 40. The stolen base is mostly out of vogue.

In his Sox career he is 31 for 112 . That's .277 . OBP is .341 .

You forgot to mention Tilson’s .292 SLG and .623 OPS last year.  He is what he is and that’s a fourth outfielder at best.  I apologize for being overly negative and not being excited about another Adam Engel.

[greg775]

31 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

A nice article from fegan on the Athletic yesterday about Tilson.  His leg injuries really affected his ability to use his lower half the past couple years and he said he's just this season finally getting the feel back.  He looked good yesterday.  Happy to give him a look, though I am not expecting a bunch.  And that is ok.

Give em' hell, Charlie. 

He's only 26, one year younger than Engel. He only had 121 plate appearances last year. He has four full seasons before he hits the dreaded 30. A second round draft pick, former 9th rated prospect in Cardinals organization who has been plagued by injuries, he deserves this final shot. Here's yet another guy who has to prove he can hit or it's about over for him. If he gets hurt again, you would think MLB would cut bait with him. Last chance here for Charlie?

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Harper2Sox said:

You forgot to mention Tilson’s .292 SLG and .623 OPS last year.  He is what he is and that’s a fourth outfielder at best.  I apologize for being overly negative and not being excited about another Adam Engel.

He's really nothing like Adam Engel.  Like at all.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Harper2Sox said:

You forgot to mention Tilson’s .292 SLG and .623 OPS last year.  He is what he is and that’s a fourth outfielder at best.  I apologize for being overly negative and not being excited about another Adam Engel.

And why would I mention it.? Not a single person reacted to the post about Tilson hitting  .280 and 40 steals except to say he wouldn't hit .280 and steal 40. I proved it's possible to hit .280 and also said the 40 steals was a reach. I did not lie .I did not exaggerate.  I mentioned OBP because it's tied to batting average.I just used what he had already done in his limited ML career

You also take every opportunity to gloat about Hahn's acquisitions sucking.  You said something like 2 of 10 being good so far. Herrera had a bad outing because of back problems and his ERA jumped well into the 5's. Before that it was 2.75 thereabouts . Baneulos same thing. .One bad inning in a small sample size does not denote how he has done the rest of the season. Most everyone was pretty pleased with him. But not you. You took that 1 outing and turned it into "there's another Hahn acquisition that sucks."

You should also make a separate category that eliminates any dumpsters dives from those acquisitions because you know most of those are going to suck. Can't even include Santana because the Sox got out of him very cheaply. The Manny friends and family plan might have been responsible for the acquisitions of Nova, Colome Alonso and Jay though the Sox would never admit that. Yes the Sox needed an innings eater and also relieve pitchers . Just coincidence that those 4 found their way to the Sox this off season. ? We might never know but it sure is suspicious.

Edited May 7, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Moan4Yoan]

17 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And why would I mention it.? Not a single person reacted to the post about Tilson hitting  .280 and 40 steals except to say he wouldn't hit .280 and steal 40. I proved it's possible to hit .280 and also said the 40 steals was a reach. I did not lie .I did not exaggerate.  I mentioned OBP because it's tied to batting average.I just used what he had already done in his limited ML career

You also take every opportunity to gloat about Hahn's acquisitions sucking.  You said something like 2 of 10 being good so far. Herrera had a bad outing because of back problems and his ERA jumped well into the 5's. Before that it was 2.75 thereabouts . One bad inning in a small sample size does not denote how he has done the rest of the season. Most everyone was pretty pleased with him. But not you. You took that 1 outing and turned it into "there's another Hahn acquisition that sucks."

You should also make a separate category that eliminates any dumpsters dives from those acquisitions because you know most of those are going to suck. Can't even include Santana because the Sox got out of him very cheaply. The Manny friends and family plan might have been responsible for the acquisitions of Nova, Colome Alonso and Jay though the Sox would never admit that. Yes the Sox needed an innings eater and also relieve pitchers . Just coincidence that those 4 found their way to the Sox this off season. ? We might never know but it sure is suspicious.

Neither Tilson nor Engel are even worth discussing.  These guys don’t sniff good team’s rosters.

So one bad outing ballooned Herrera’s ERA.  I expect him to have a decent season but a $9 million dollar reliever serves no purpose on this team for this year and likely next year at this rate.

And why can’t I include Santana?  Hahn signed him thinking he was worth $4.3 million dollars even though he couldn’t break 90 mph with his fastball.  The only thing that got the Sox out of eating that $4.3 million dollars was Santana being stupid and not accepting the assignment to Charlotte, not Hahn and his wizardry of the GM role.

It was a terrible offseason.  There is really no way to sugarcoat it, as you are apparently trying hard to do.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Harper2Sox

[Bob Sacamano]

5 hours ago, Harper2Sox said:

You forgot to mention Tilson’s .292 SLG and .623 OPS last year.  He is what he is and that’s a fourth outfielder at best.  I apologize for being overly negative and not being excited about another Adam Engel.

Why do you even bother posting here? Literally everything you post is negative.

Edited May 7, 2019 by soxfan2014

[turnin' two]

9 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Now I guess you know why people say the same about you. Overly negative or overly positive makes people wonder. I like overly positive better.

 I don't think batting . 280 is a reach. Last year he had 120 PA and hit .264 with a .331 OBP with the Sox. 40  steals is more of a reach. Very few nowadays steal 40. The stolen base is mostly out of vogue.

In his Sox career he is 31 for 112 . That's .277 . OBP is .341 .

I don't think this is a ridiculous expectation.  Throughout the minors, until his injury, he always hit higher than .280.  He may not offer much in terms of pop, but he seems to have the bat to ball skills.  I think .280 would be well within his probable outcome bell curve.  

[Jose Abreu]

3 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

Why do you even bother posting here? Literally everything you post is negative.

Definitely a great question. 

[wegner]

To all you Engel haters, they just said in the postgame that he is hitting .600 in Charlotte ?

[Moan4Yoan]

3 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

Why do you even bother posting here? Literally everything you post is negative.

21 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Definitely a great question. 

Because I am a realist.  Engel and Tilson are AAAA players.  Go read the game thread and see how positive I was about Giolito start tonight.  Also, don't worry so much about what other posters think.  I don't tell you that you are being too positive, do I?

Edited May 8, 2019 by Harper2Sox

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

19 hours ago, Harper2Sox said:

Neither Tilson nor Engel are even worth discussing.  These guys don’t sniff good team’s rosters.

So one bad outing ballooned Herrera’s ERA.  I expect him to have a decent season but a $9 million dollar reliever serves no purpose on this team for this year and likely next year at this rate.

And why can’t I include Santana?  Hahn signed him thinking he was worth $4.3 million dollars even though he couldn’t break 90 mph with his fastball.  The only thing that got the Sox out of eating that $4.3 million dollars was Santana being stupid and not accepting the assignment to Charlotte, not Hahn and his wizardry of the GM role.

It was a terrible offseason.  There is really no way to sugarcoat it, as you are apparently trying hard to do.

 

12 hours ago, Harper2Sox said:

Because I am a realist.  Engel and Tilson are AAAA players.  Go read the game thread and see how positive I was about Giolito start tonight.  Also, don't worry so much about what other posters think.  I don't tell you that you are being too positive, do I?

So I make a couple of good points about Tilson and all of a sudden he's not worth discussing when you were discussing him in the 1st place. Maybe they don't sniff a good team's roster but I guess I have to remind you we are not a good team and are rebuilding so your point makes no sense. This is what rebuilding teams do . They take flyers on injured guys, reclamation projects  etc, and see if they can win the lottery .

I agree it was a terrible off season. There's not enough lipstick in the world to make that pig look good and you serve a purpose of reminding us of that, They don't deserve our trust. I have made many posts regarding that situation. However it is still a rebuild so I/we have to realize that there is going to be a good amount of suck. I just prefer not to dwell on the suck or in the past and look ahead .

[poppysox]

This forum is about discussion not arguments.  State your point of view and let others discuss it or offer other ways to look at it.  When people are just trying to make others look dumb...they're not changing anyone's mind.  We all love the Sox just not what we might see out of them from day to day.  Even when I agree with you it doesn't make either one of us right.

[Two-Gun Pete]

For me, the frustrating thing with this crop of AAAA types was the stupid and uneven way they were handled.

Engel has 1 MLB caliber tool, but his complete and utter lack of any sort of ability to hit made his 857 MLB PAs seem to be a waste of time. Him being scouted by the Doug Laumann Clown College, and [snicker] signed in the 19th round by a failed front office meant that he was likely never a prospect in the FIRST PLACE.

Tilson was actually scouted, drafted, and developed by a [then] successful and intelligent front office in St. Louis. Him being drafted in the 2nd round, and then his relative prospect status in a decent organization makes me more interested in what he might do with more of a look. His injuries aside, I can't understand why he's only had 123 PA leading into this season.

Cordell doesn't seem to have any PLUS tools, but then, he doesn't suffer from an abject and crippling LACK of any one tool that would prevent him from at least having more of a look. Though, again, his injury history has also sidetracked him hereto fore.

 

I suppose on balance, Engel's utter shittiness at hitting, yet him having 9,999 lives in the MLB roster was typical of a stupid organization like this one. In a rebuild, a team HAS TO get lucky with the odd AAAA type becoming a cromulent piece of the 25 man. Yet, 857 PAs were squandered on a 19th round no-hoper who could never fucking hit, when other, less flawed options are/were available. Were they too stupid to figure out that Engel isn't MLB caliber, or was it simply Tilson's/Cordell's health?

 

Who knows. And yes, I recognize that Tilson and Cordell and Delmonico are all probably AAAA nothing burgers. But, they have to find out if any of them can provide more value than Engel's one MLB caliber tool, rather than wasting PAs on players who don't have the requisite level of OVERALL ability.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Two-Gun Pete