FS: Andrew Vaughn Profile

[Rankin]

It’s MLB draft season and the White Sox have plenty of value to choose from.

Power hitting 1B Andrew Vaughn is up first in our draft prospect preview.

[tray]

I was admonished for posting something about the Draft that was not in an existing thread about the Draft.

That thread  not on my first page but you may want to look for it.

[Y2Jimmy0]

4 minutes ago, tray said:

I was admonished for posting something about the Draft that was not in an existing thread about the Draft.

That thread  not on my first page but you may want to look for it.

We always pin our FutureSox articles on the first page. 

[ChiSox59]

Great analysis here - but I really hope Vaughn isn’t the guy. Not that I don’t think he can be good, I just really don’t want to spend a top 3 pick on a 1B. 

[oldsox]

Do we have current stats for Vaughn?  And the OSU catcher, too?

I have tried to get them from school web sites.  Not easy.

[SoxBlanco]

2 hours ago, oldsox said:

Do we have current stats for Vaughn?  And the OSU catcher, too?

I have tried to get them from school web sites.  Not easy.

Vaughn: .375/.532/.704 with 13 HR, 47 BB, and 28 K

Rutschman: .431/.581/.791 with 15 HR, 60 BB, and 31 K

Their number of at bats are almost identical (152 to 153).

Edited May 11, 2019 by SoxBlanco

[BackDoorBreach]

4 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Great analysis here - but I really hope Vaughn isn’t the guy. Not that I don’t think he can be good, I just really don’t want to spend a top 3 pick on a 1B. 

I feel the same way.  I feel that Ruschman has a low chance falling to us since KC already has a stud Catcher coming up and I don't see the O's taking him.

 

I don't really want another 1B/DH type.

[poppysox]

Lets not corner the market on 1B / DH.  We already have 3 or 4 high draft choice people who profile for this.

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Lets not corner the market on 1B / DH.  We already have 3 or 4 high draft choice people who profile for this.

Not one of them projects as everyday starter. By no means would any of them block Vaughn.

[poppysox]

9 minutes ago, fathom said:

Not one of them projects as everyday starter. By no means would any of them block Vaughn.

Jimenez, Burger & Collins have all been mentioned to be better suited to 1B / DH rather than outfield, third & catcher respectively.  Time will tell.

[Chisox378]

To get the college stats check out The Baseball Cube website: http://thebaseballcube.com/

[Chisox378]

Rutschman the catcher from Oregon is a switch hitter, don't think he he is a better pure hitter than Vaughn.  We have Collins who I think is ready today but is blocked by McCann who could be our catcher for the next few years if he keeps at this pace.  I don't mind stacking 1B as long as they can learn to play a different position. I would even love to get 1B Pavin Smith from the D Backs.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Chisox378

[poppysox]

Vaughn is only 5'11"...not very big for a 1st / DH.

[tray]

I read that Derek Jeter really likes CJ Abrams and hopes that he is available at #4. 

i'd take  Abrams over the short, stout Vaughn who looks to be a single tool player.

[Quin]

1 hour ago, tray said:

I read that Derek Jeter really likes CJ Abrams and hopes that he is available at #4. 

i'd take  Abrams over the short, stout Vaughn who looks to be a single tool player.

I'm not a big Andrew Vaughn fan, but you're making me one. Vaughn is 5'11, not 5'5. He's also been graded as a solid defender, so who knows, maybe he has a good standing reach. In addition to this, he's not fat like you keep implying in threads, but has a strong build, kind of like Jim Thome. Unless you think Jim Thome is some sort of chunker. 

Moving on from his body, he's not a one tool player. His hit tool is what has skyrocketed him up the draft charts and it pairs with his tremendous raw power. Combine that with the ability to field his position, his only flaw is he's slow. Considering you keep bringing Abrams and Vaughn's weight up, I feel this is your issue. 

Regarding Derek Jeter, he also really liked Gordon Beckham. But we can let that slide, he wasn't running a team yet. What about when he is running a team?

He traded Christian Yelich for Lewis Brinson, Isan Díaz, Monte Harrison, and Jordan Yamamoto.

Giancarlo Stanton for Starlin Castro, Jorge Guzman, Jose Devers.

Marcell Ozuna for Sandy Alcántara, Magneuris Sierra, Zac Gallen, and Daniel Castano.

J.T. Realmuto for Jorge Alfaro, Sixto Sánchez, Will Stewart, and $250,000 in international bonus slot money.

The above is Derek Jeter's haul for four highly coveted players in baseball that multiple teams tried to acquire. In fact, whenever I feel bad about our rebuild I think "it could be worse, we could have traded away Sale, Q, Eaton, and the bullpen arms for nothing like the Marlins did."

I'm not trying to hound you from thread to thread, but your analysis boils down to "I don't like Vaughn. I like Abrams. Let me provide no truly substantive reasoning as to why."

[tray]

"I I'm not a big Andrew Vaughn fan, but you're making me one. Vaughn is 5'11, not 5'5. He's also been graded as a solid defender... 'm not trying to hound you from thread to thread, but your analysis boils down to "I don't like Vaughn. I like Abrams. Let me provide no truly substantive reasoning as to why."

I have a basis for my opinions and a right to express them on this fan forum.  FYI, I have done what most fans interested in this Draft have done, namely I have searched for and read everything I can find  on  the players I think will be available at no. 3, including  Vaughn and CJ Abrams. I have also watched numerous video highlights from their careers which I understand are just that - highlights., and looked over their available stats. This is something that was not as easy to do with a prep player like Abrams, but there is still a lot to be found on line about him. I  have also looked at fan forum sites for the Orioles, Marlins and Tigers on their Draft topics just to see what their fans' opinions are on these players.

There are substantive reasons why the WS might not choose Vaughn over another a top player at another position.  As others have pointed out,  the Sox already have major league talent and numerous prospects that fit into the 1B/DH role.   The fact is that 1B/DH  is essentially a one tool position which is easier to fill than positions requiring more speed, athleticism, flexibility and a healthy, trim physique.  I considered the potential upside of these players. Vaughn developed power after lifting weights (according to his own account) and gaining bulk.  I am not sure how much more he can add to his frame and wonder, at what point added bulk (from age or weight lifting)  begins to slow his swing and speed on the bases.  

I looked for some example of a 6 ft. tall first basemen selected that high in the Draft that ended up being a star in the majors, and could not come up many examples. ...at least not in recent years. I  even looked at Paul Konerko's rookie card .   Even as a catcher,  he was taller and far less bulky, or leg heavy (as Lillian pointed out) than Vaughn.    Of course there have been guys who had a big azz and could hit  like the Bull, Greg Luzinski, but they are always a liability on the bases and now, with the increased use of defensive shifts, their averages would have dropped.,

I am not going to defend Derek  Jeter, but I do respect his opinion about a young shortstop's talent.  My own opinion about CJ Abram is based on his athleticism,  speed and that LH swing, and more than anything,  scout evaluations. IMO, which is not an isolated one,  CJ has tremendous upside potential.  I just don't see that with Vaughn.  He might end up being a guy who already maximized his talent , perhaps like another guy from Vandy we Drafted a few years ago.

And just to add, I expect that the White Sox  will take Vaughn. I did not like most of the Draft selections they have made in recent years and I don't expect this year to be any different.   Collins, Fulmer, Burgur...

 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by tray
technical error in sentence construction.

[PolishPrince34]

Vaughn plays at California 

[tray]

typo and Ill change that to clarify. Thanks bud.

[poppysox]

16 hours ago, tray said:

"I I'm not a big Andrew Vaughn fan, but you're making me one. Vaughn is 5'11, not 5'5. He's also been graded as a solid defender... 'm not trying to hound you from thread to thread, but your analysis boils down to "I don't like Vaughn. I like Abrams. Let me provide no truly substantive reasoning as to why."

I have a basis for my opinions and a right to express them on this fan forum.  FYI, I have done what most fans interested in this Draft have done, namely I have searched for and read everything I can find  on  the players I think will be available at no. 3, including  Vaughn and CJ Abrams. I have also watched numerous video highlights from their careers which I understand are just that - highlights., and looked over their available stats. This is something that was not as easy to do with a prep player like Abrams, but there is still a lot to be found on line about him. I  have also looked at fan forum sites for the Orioles, Marlins and Tigers on their Draft topics just to see what their fans' opinions are on these players.

There are substantive reasons why the WS might not choose Vaughn over another a top player at another position.  As others have pointed out,  the Sox already have major league talent and numerous prospects that fit into the 1B/DH role.   The fact is that 1B/DH  is essentially a one tool position which is easier to fill than positions requiring more speed, athleticism, flexibility and a healthy, trim physique.  I considered the potential upside of these players. Vaughn developed power after lifting weights (according to his own account) and gaining bulk.  I am not sure how much more he can add to his frame and wonder, at what point added bulk (from age or weight lifting)  begins to slow his swing and speed on the bases.  

I looked for some example of a 6 ft. tall first basemen selected that high in the Draft that ended up being a star in the majors, and could not come up many examples. ...at least not in recent years. I  even looked at Paul Konerko's rookie card .   Even as a catcher,  he was taller and far less bulky, or leg heavy (as Lillian pointed out) than Vaughn.    Of course there have been guys who had a big azz and could hit  like the Bull, Greg Luzinski, but they are always a liability on the bases and now, with the increased use of defensive shifts, their averages would have dropped.,

I am not going to defend Derek  Jeter, but I do respect his opinion about a young shortstop's talent.  My own opinion about CJ Abram is based on his athleticism,  speed and that LH swing, and more than anything,  scout evaluations. IMO, which is not an isolated one,  CJ has tremendous upside potential.  I just don't see that with Vaughn.  He might end up being a guy who already maximized his talent , perhaps like another guy from Vandy we Drafted a few years ago.

And just to add, I expect that the White Sox  will take Vaughn. I did not like most of the Draft selections they have made in recent years and I don't expect this year to be any different.   Collins, Fulmer, Burgur...

 

 

 

 

I like the points made in this post.

[tray]

This is a pretty uninviting fan forum that I plan on visiting far less than I have in the past, and yes, I know I won't be missed.   There is just too much one-upmanship and juvenile taunting that leaves many true Sox fans wondering what is really behind it. 

[Soxfest]

Don’t draft another one dimensional player......pass on him.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I knew Vaughn would be a lightning rod. That's why we chose to do his profile first. 

[oldsox]

3 hours ago, tray said:

This is a pretty uninviting fan forum that I plan on visiting far less than I have in the past, and yes, I know I won't be missed.   There is just too much one-upmanship and juvenile taunting that leaves many true Sox fans wondering what is really behind it. 

keep posting.

[poppysox]

12 hours ago, tray said:

This is a pretty uninviting fan forum that I plan on visiting far less than I have in the past, and yes, I know I won't be missed.   There is just too much one-upmanship and juvenile taunting that leaves many true Sox fans wondering what is really behind it. 

I need to remind myself that there are many more fans who try to keep a positive attitude than there are negative nellies.  They simply are louder and say the same stuff over & over.  As far as your question (what's behind it) I think it's easier to take a shot at what someone else said then think up an original thought.

[bmags]

I don't like mixing sports but vaughn really is a value question for me. I think players like Pete Alonso are probably underrated in team building - but on the other hand alonso was a below slot second rounder. Rhys Hoskins was in the 5th round. Goldschmidt in the 8th(?). Bellinger in the 4th. You had Seth Beer in the late first/comp rounds. (things that teams with player dev can do).

And then lets look at college 1b drafted top 15 in last several years:

Pavin Smith - a .342/.427/.570 hitter as JR in college, is now a 23 year old in AA hitting .223/.320/.402

Evan White - a .373/.453/.637 hitter as JR in college, is now a 23 year old in AA with a .769 OPS. And Evan is considered a plus plus defender that could maybe pass in outfield.

So, teams have accurately stayed away, especially from rh hitting 1b, but ones that did seem worth it have struggled once they hit AA.

Advanced bats, power and contact! But there wasn't much more to tap into, they were pretty much developed, which can destroy college hitting but may not mean a thing for pros.

Now, Pavin Smith and White at the time were no where NEAR Vaughns reputation for hitting.

But I really worry about the idea that a player like vaughn doesn't have more to tap into to get better as the competition increases, and instead just is what he is so the production atrophies and you just hope you are still getting at least an .800 OPS 1b.

And you could fish that out of later rounds unless you are the white sox and you get Gavin Sheets.

Edit: I forgot to mix the sports - but it's comparable to running back. Vaughn may be gurley/elliott, but guys that good are plucked later quite a bit.