Rodon TJS

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said:

This why we should have moved him when he was riding high last year. Too much risk.

F'n Hahn.

What would you accept for him at the deadline last year knowing that he came off the DL in what, May/June?

[ChiSox59]

14 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

What would you accept for him at the deadline last year knowing that he came off the DL in what, May/June?

Yah, trading Rodon last July wasn't really much of an option.  

[spiderman]

9 hours ago, poppysox said:

Won't be back until Spring 2020 at best.  Barely enough time to show he has anything.  His agent won't be signing any cheap extensions so that probably leaves us trading before the deadline for something modest.  Maybe he comes back like a house on fire and we recoup something kind of nice.  I hate dealing with Boras as you can never find a fair middle ground with his clients.

Let's imagine that everything goes as well as could possibly go with his rehab. Assuming that he begins rehab starts and needs 4-5 starts to get his pitch count up to around 80 pitches and he makes his major league debut in August, he likely wouldn't throw more than 50 innings (and probably less assuming he's on a pitch count/innings restriction) in 2020. Even if his velocity returns and he pitches well in the limited time in the majors, I still can't imagine other teams are going to give up much for a pitcher who hasn't shown the ability to lead a rotation, is still coming off of yet another arm injury and is starting to approach free agency (I think that is 2021?). 

That's why I think, for good or bad, the White Sox are better off just getting whatever they can from him, but in a lesser role when he returns. I don't think there is any scenario where they can depend on him to start the season in 2021 as a #1 or #2 starter. If he's a #3 starter, the White Sox are probably in major trouble still. He's likely a #4 type of starter on a contending team, but that will come with major risk.

[greg775]

2 hours ago, spiderman said:

That's why I think, for good or bad, the White Sox are better off just getting whatever they can from him, but in a lesser role when he returns. I don't think there is any scenario where they can depend on him to start the season in 2021 as a #1 or #2 starter. If he's a #3 starter, the White Sox are probably in major trouble still. He's likely a #4 type of starter on a contending team, but that will come with major risk.

I think this all matters not. Rodon's injury throws him into the category of "Just Another Guy." Doesn't matter where he was drafted. There's no reason to trade him. Why would any team acquire him just to help him through rehab time?? You just thrust him into the background of a player that "if he ever gives us something, fine." He's certainly no longer to be considered a can't miss prospect or even a good prospect. He has to come back from surgery. He's one of those guys now, not worth discussing anymore. Who the heck would want him via trade? That's just absurd to think another GM is thinking, "I know, I'll trade for that Rodon guy just in case he recovers well from surgery and gets good again."

[poppysox]

Keuchel &Kimbrel are still available and the season is not lost yet.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, poppysox said:

Keuchel &Kimbrel are still available and the season is not lost yet.

I'd definitely be interested in Kimbrel post-draft. Do we give him a multi-year deal and what he wants? Gotta spend the money somewhere right?

[Jerksticks]

33 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

I'd definitely be interested in Kimbrel post-draft. Do we give him a multi-year deal and what he wants? Gotta spend the money somewhere right?

I think that would be a fabulous use of money.  

 

[southsideirish71]

4 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

I'd definitely be interested in Kimbrel post-draft. Do we give him a multi-year deal and what he wants? Gotta spend the money somewhere right?

Post draft go nuts.  Its just money. 

[TheTruth05]

31 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

Post draft go nuts.  Its just money. 

JR does not compute 

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

JR does not compute 

Ah, yes. The sole important factor.

[Moan4Yoan]

2 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Ah, yes. The sole important factor.

You can’t spend a dollar when you only have fifty cents.

[Balta1701]

44 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

You can’t spend a dollar when you only have fifty cents.

Dude your quote is totally out of date.

"Our fans would have been much more disappointed in our inability to keep this next core together."

[Moan4Yoan]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Dude your quote is totally out of date.

"Our fans would have been much more disappointed in our inability to keep this next core together."

Haha, that is perfect Rick speak.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Haha, that is perfect Rick speak.

That was Kenny, not Rick. In his rant about how any White Sox fans that think this organization cheap are bad.

[greg775]

On 5/15/2019 at 12:52 PM, Balta1701 said:

That was Kenny, not Rick. In his rant about how any White Sox fans that think this organization cheap are bad.

Man, I missed that interview rant. That is so offensive it's insane. This organization is cheap beyond belief. It's almost like they get the payroll over a certain amount to not be completely embarrassed. How else can you explain the wasted millions on Alonso, Jay, Nate Jones, and that starting pitcher we already cut. Without Alonso and Jay the payroll is really down there for a club worth $1 billion. (Please sell, Jerry).

Edited May 17, 2019 by greg775

[Lip Man 1]

4 hours ago, greg775 said:

Man, I missed that interview rant. That is so offensive it's insane. This organization is cheap beyond belief. It's almost like they get the payroll over a certain amount to not be completely embarrassed. How else can you explain the wasted millions on Alonso, Jay, Nate Jones, and that starting pitcher we already cut. Without Alonso and Jay the payroll is really down there for a club worth $1 billion. (Please sell, Jerry).

You can hope, pray...even use a voodoo doll if that's your pleasure but it is not happening. Not yesterday, not today and not tomorrow as JR has made clear many times because of the tax hit his family would take.

[spiderman]

On 5/14/2019 at 7:48 PM, greg775 said:

I think this all matters not. Rodon's injury throws him into the category of "Just Another Guy." Doesn't matter where he was drafted. There's no reason to trade him. Why would any team acquire him just to help him through rehab time?? You just thrust him into the background of a player that "if he ever gives us something, fine." He's certainly no longer to be considered a can't miss prospect or even a good prospect. He has to come back from surgery. He's one of those guys now, not worth discussing anymore. Who the heck would want him via trade? That's just absurd to think another GM is thinking, "I know, I'll trade for that Rodon guy just in case he recovers well from surgery and gets good again."

Yep, that's my position as well. They can't trade him any longer and/or sell him a a potential top line starter. Get him healthy, and let's see if he can be a contributor.

[spiderman]

On 5/15/2019 at 7:18 AM, soxfan2014 said:

I'd definitely be interested in Kimbrel post-draft. Do we give him a multi-year deal and what he wants? Gotta spend the money somewhere right?

How old is he? What's the point of signing a closer to a 90 loss type team to a multi-year deal?

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, spiderman said:

Yep, that's my position as well. They can't trade him any longer and/or sell him a a potential top line starter. Get him healthy, and let's see if he can be a contributor.

If you got him healthy, as soon as he does anything that might even suggest he could be a contributor, he hits free agency, and you've paid nearly $10 million for the privilege. 

[ChiSox59]

29 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If you got him healthy, as soon as he does anything that might even suggest he could be a contributor, he hits free agency, and you've paid nearly $10 million for the privilege. 

Which is why you extend him for three years for a total of ~50% more than $10M and then get a series of team friendly options after that. Then it makes sense. The risk for the Sox is relatively low. The upside would be significant. Obviously it gives Rodon a fair deal more security than he would get if he were non tendered. 

I know I won’t convince you personally of this plans merits, but I think it makes a ton of sense for both sides. 3 years $15-17M isn’t very much money in today’s game, and this isn’t a move that is going to really affect the Sox in a negative way even if Rodon is never an effective pitcher again. 

Edited May 17, 2019 by ChiSox59

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

12 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Which is why you extend him for three years for a total of ~50% more than $10M and then get a series of team friendly options after that. Then it makes sense. The risk for the Sox is relatively low. The upside would be significant. Obviously it gives Rodon a fair deal more security than he would get if he were non tendered. 

I know I won’t convince of this plans merits, but I think it makes a ton of sense for both sides. 3 years $15-17M isn’t very much money in today’s game, and this isn’t a move that is going to really affect the Sox in a negative way even if Rodon is never an effective pitcher again. 

Isn’t this basically what the Cubs did with Drew Smyly? I realize circumstances were different because he was already non-tendered by Seattle but they paid him a few million for a season in which they knew he wouldn’t pitch as he was rehabbing.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Isn’t this basically what the Cubs did with Drew Smyly? I realize circumstances were different because he was already non-tendered by Seattle but they paid him a few million for a season in which they knew he wouldn’t pitch as he was rehabbing.

Similar ya. Pineda too. The fact that they were already non tendered and went to a different team makes it a bit different.  

[Bob Sacamano]

42 minutes ago, spiderman said:

How old is he? What's the point of signing a closer to a 90 loss type team to a multi-year deal?

Because they may want to try to be good next and the year after?

[Balta1701]

53 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Which is why you extend him for three years for a total of ~50% more than $10M and then get a series of team friendly options after that. Then it makes sense. The risk for the Sox is relatively low. The upside would be significant. Obviously it gives Rodon a fair deal more security than he would get if he were non tendered. 

I know I won’t convince you personally of this plans merits, but I think it makes a ton of sense for both sides. 3 years $15-17M isn’t very much money in today’s game, and this isn’t a move that is going to really affect the Sox in a negative way even if Rodon is never an effective pitcher again. 

You know what the basic, fundamental problem here is right? It's Scott Boras. That's literally all I have to say. Team friendly options just aren't a thing, his side will always force you to FA as quick as possible. If he had to sign a deal that was 1 year with an option year for Rodon because of his injury only, his side would accept that, but he's not going to give you a deal that could have the downside of Rodon being locked away from free agency for 5 years. That's what it means to have Boras as your agent. 

The 3rd way just doesn't exist. You get to choose: non-tender Rodon this offseason, or follow the Boras-mandated path that takes him to FA after 2021.

[Balta1701]

42 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Similar ya. Pineda too. The fact that they were already non tendered and went to a different team makes it a bit different.  

A 1 year deal with a 1 year team option is what I expect Rodon to sign if he's DFA'd by the White Sox this offseason. It could be similar money to what the White Sox would have to pay in 2 arbitration years, although Rodon's never been as good as Pineda was so paying them comparably is hard to justify. However, that is a very different beast from what he's suggesting, which is something that assumes Rodon's side would be willing to give up a few extra years of not hitting free agency for a little more money now.