McCann Extension

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Sarava said:

There's nobody on this board I agree with more than you usually...but not here.

There's a good chance the pitching regresses without McCann (feel free to go back to Giolito's allstar game interviews and how he talks about McCann). Why would we sell out our pitchers for a better bat in the lineup? The Sox are going to have a loaded lineup, especially if they fill the RF and DH spots. We don't need to be bringing in an aging, good hitting but mediocre defensive catcher. Even if McCann falls back with his bat some next year, he's still the better option and much cheaper. Him and Collins platooning, with McCann likely being the main guy is just right IMO.

To me the off-season plan should be pretty simple. Sign a TOR starter - Cole or Strasburg. Sign or trade for big bats in RF and DH. Patch a few small holes. Attempt to get Moncada and Giollito to sign longterm deals.  The Sox could easily win 95+ games next year.

And that’s a completely fair take and I love how McCann handles the staff.  I’m just saying it should be obvious why people would want Grandal as he’s an elite catcher and plus left-handed bat.  Debating the fit or best use of our resources is totally up for debate, I just feel like some posters are under valuing Yasmani as a player.

Here’s the challenge we face this offseason.  There are very few quality bats in free agency and even fewer left-handed ones.  The list of free agents who fit our major needs (RF & DH) is tiny.  It remains debatable if Ozuna can even play RF and after him it’s stop-gap types for the OF unless you want to overpay for a fairly ordinary bat in Castellanos.  As for DH, if JD Martinez doesn’t opt-out your best DH options are probably Dickerson (if he’s even willing to), a 37 year old Encarnacion, or Smoak.  Not the prettiest of options, but perhaps enough to buy you time until Vaughn is ready.  If you add Grandal however, you can go with a three headed monster at C & DH and improve both spots one swoop.  For this exercise, let’s say that isn’t happening.

Regardless, we’ll likely have to trade for a RF and that’s going to cost prospect capital that’s in limited supply for us.  If we prioritize adding a left-hander, there are three guys who are semi-interesting that would not require an untouchable prospect:  Brandon Nimmo, Gregory Polanco, & Nomar Mazara.  I personally like Nimmo the best out of that group, but he may be the hardest to acquire and has a back issue that at least warrants some caution.  Mazara really hasn’t ever been good offensively and only has two years of control left, but is the youngest of the trio.  That leaves Polanco as the best mix of attainable & interesting.  He’s not perfect by any means, but he’s a guy with upside who could probably be had for reasonable price.

So let’s say we trade for Polanco for RF and sign Smoak to a cheap one year deal to fill in at 1B/DH.  Here’s what our lineup would potentially look like next year with my incredibly early & completely subjective WAR forecasts:

• 1: Madrigal, 2B (2.5)
• 2: Moncada#, 3B (5.0)
• 3: Jimenez, LF (2.5)
• 4: Abreu, DH/1B (1.0)
• 5: Smoak#, 1B/DH (1.0)
• 6: Robert, CF (3.5)
• 7: Anderson, SS (3.0)
• 8: Polanco*, RF (2.0)
• 9: McCann, C (1.5)
• IF: Goins*/Mendick*
• OF/IF: Garcia#
• BC/1B/DH: Collins*
• BC/DH: Mercedes

I’m projecting ~22 WAR from that lineup (assuming any value the bench guys provide is offset by injuries to the starting nine) for a total cost of likely $45M to $50M.  That’s a good not great lineup with some potential upside, but definitely limited by the 1B/DH pairing (although platooning with Collins and/or Mercedes could lead to better production there).

Assuming a replacement level team wins 48 games and that you need 88 to be in the playoff mix, we’d need ~18 WAR from our pitching staff with a budget of say $75M.  Can that be done this offseason?  If you add Cole (or to a lesser extent Strasburg) and a high-end reliever, it’s more than possible.  If you move from Cole down to one of Wheeler/Bumgarner, it suddenly becomes more challenging.  The problem is Cole may pull a Harper/Machado and not sign until Feb/Mar.  Cole is without question my dream addition, but I’m skeptical we’ll offer him the necessary years or put all our eggs in his court and potentially miss out on other quality starters.

It’s why a Grandal addition makes so much sense to me because he’s an upgrade at both the C & DH spots and makes up for some of the gap between Cole and those lesser starting pitching options.  That being said, I’m not optimistic the Sox will actually pursue him, especially if they believe Collins’ recent improvements are for real.  Just don’t see a lot of other greats opportunities to improve the lineup substantially that only cost money.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And that’s a completely fair take and I love how McCann handles the staff.  I’m just saying it should be obvious why people would want Grandal as he’s an elite catcher and plus left-handed bat.  Debating the fit or best use of our resources is totally up for debate, I just feel like some posters are under valuing Yasmani as a player.

Here’s the challenge we face this offseason.  There are very few quality bats in free agency and even fewer left-handed ones.  The list of free agents who fit our major needs (RF & DH) is tiny.  It remains debatable if Ozuna can even play RF and after him it’s stop-gap types for the OF unless you want to overpay for a fairly ordinary bat in Castellanos.  As for DH, if JD Martinez doesn’t opt-out your best DH options are probably Dickerson (if he’s even willing to), a 37 year old Encarnacion, or Smoak.  Not the prettiest of options, but perhaps enough to buy you time until Vaughn is ready.  If you add Grandal however, you can go with a three headed monster at C & DH and improve both spots one swoop.  For this exercise, let’s say that isn’t happening.

Regardless, we’ll likely have to trade for a RF and that’s going to cost prospect capital that’s in limited supply for us.  If we prioritize adding a left-hander, there are three guys who are semi-interesting that would not require an untouchable prospect:  Brandon Nimmo, Gregory Polanco, & Nomar Mazara.  I personally like Nimmo the best out of that group, but he may be the hardest to acquire and has a back issue that at least warrants some caution.  Mazara really hasn’t ever been good offensively and only has two years of control left, but is the youngest of the trio.  That leaves Polanco as the best mix of attainable & interesting.  He’s not perfect by any means, but he’s a guy with upside who could probably be had for reasonable price.

So let’s say we trade for Polanco for RF and sign Smoak to a cheap one year deal to fill in at 1B/DH.  Here’s what our lineup would potentially look like next year with my incredibly early & completely subjective WAR forecasts:

• 1: Madrigal, 2B (2.5)
• 2: Moncada#, 3B (5.0)
• 3: Jimenez, LF (2.5)
• 4: Abreu, DH/1B (1.0)
• 5: Smoak#, 1B/DH (1.0)
• 6: Robert, CF (3.5)
• 7: Anderson, SS (3.0)
• 8: Polanco*, RF (2.0)
• 9: McCann, C (1.5)
• IF: Goins*/Mendick*
• OF/IF: Garcia#
• BC/1B/DH: Collins*
• BC/DH: Mercedes

I’m projecting ~22 WAR from that lineup (assuming any value the bench guys provide is offset by injuries to the starting nine) for a total cost of likely $45M to $50M.  That’s a good not great lineup with some potential upside, but definitely limited by the 1B/DH pairing (although platooning with Collins and/or Mercedes could lead to better production there).

Assuming a replacement level team wins 48 games and that you need 88 to be in the playoff mix, we’d need ~18 WAR from our pitching staff with a budget of say $75M.  Can that be done this offseason?  If you add Cole (or to a lesser extent Strasburg) and a high-end reliever, it’s more than possible.  If you move from Cole down to one of Wheeler/Bumgarner, it suddenly becomes more challenging.  The problem is Cole may pull a Harper/Machado and not sign until Feb/Mar.  Cole is without question my dream addition, but I’m skeptical we’ll offer him the necessary years or put all our eggs in his court and potentially miss out on other quality starters.

It’s why a Grandal addition makes so much sense to me because he’s an upgrade at both the C & DH spots and makes up for some of the gap between Cole and those lesser starting pitching options.  That being said, I’m not optimistic the Sox will actually pursue him, especially if they believe Collins’ recent improvements are for real.  Just don’t see a lot of other greats opportunities to improve the lineup substantially that only cost money.

Grandal should be #1 target other than a top of rotation SP. And Grandal should be reasonable - 3/$60M should get it done. Resign Abreu and trade for one of lefty RF you mentioned or sign Alex Gordon on the cheap and then go to battle. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Timmy U said:

His offensive numbers are eerily similar to James McCann’s 116 WRC, and he’s 2 years older, and he’s making 9 times as much as McCann.  Maybe I’m leery cuz he’s the same age as Yonder Alonso and a catcher, but I would not give him a multi-year contract at $18 million per.

The problem is McCann’s 116 wRC+ is not sustainable.  He’s running a very high BABIP and his xWOBA is nearly 20 points lower than his actual WOBA.  And for reference, Grandal’s xWOBA is nearly 30 points higher than McCann’s.  Grandal is without question an elite hitting catcher, if McCann’s power is for real he’s an above average hitting catcher but on a completely different tier.  The other major difference is framing, where there is a clear night & day difference in ability.  Admittedly, I love how McCann handles the young staff and that’s an area impossible to quantify but where he probably has an edge on Grandal (based on reports).

Also, I’m not suggesting getting rid of McCann (at least not next year), it’s more of this three headed monster idea of Grandal, McCann, & Collins sharing DH & C.  Honestly, J just don’t see a lot of free agent bats that can rapidly improve our lineup and Grandal is one of those few options that could theoretically work.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, SCCWS said:

What do you think money wise it will take? 

3/$60M max, maybe even a little less.  If you believe he’s a five or even a four win player, that’s a bargain IMO.

[poppysox]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

People are obsessed with Grandal because he’s one of the best catchers in baseball and is probably the best left-handed bat on the market.  I don’t understand why that’s hard to understand.

Grandal and McCann sharing catching & DH with Collins in the mix makes sense.  Needs to be explored.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

18 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

3/$60M max, maybe even a little less.  If you believe he’s a five or even a four win player, that’s a bargain IMO.

I’m not a fan of giving that kind of money and years to a catcher like Grandal who turns 31 later this year. I’d rather ride it out next year with McCann and Collins and then make a big splash with Realmuto next winter if you’re still looking for an upgrade at catcher. 

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’m not a fan of giving that kind of money and years to a catcher like Grandal who turns 31 later this year. I’d rather ride it out next year with McCann and Collins and then make a big splash with Realmuto next winter if you’re still looking for an upgrade at catcher. 

I would put odds of realmuto getting away from Phillies low.

[ChiSox59]

 The one thing I wonder about with Grandal is his willingness to DH and play 1B about half the time. McCann still needs to catch a good bit, and Sox are gonna (hopefully) want to mix Collins in at catcher at least 1x per week. 

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’m not a fan of giving that kind of money and years to a catcher like Grandal who turns 31 later this year. I’d rather ride it out next year with McCann and Collins and then make a big splash with Realmuto next winter if you’re still looking for an upgrade at catcher. 

Who are you signing or trading for at DH/1B/RF?

I don’t really understand how anyone could be against Grandal at 3/$60 or less. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Who are you signing or trading for at DH/1B/RF?

I don’t really understand how anyone could be against Grandal at 3/$60 or less. 

All of baseball was against that type of contract for him last winter. Yes, he had a QO attached but he was also a year younger.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

All of baseball was against that type of contract for him last winter. Yes, he had a QO attached but he was also a year younger.

It’s been well documented that he turned down much bigger offers. He shot himself in the foot. He’s also had a good season and doesn’t have a puck attached.

You also didn’t answer the question. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

I guess I want to see what the Sox have with Collins before spending big money at the catcher’s position. He’s been on a tear since his demotion. Let’s see what the kid can do. McCann has bought the Sox some time to break Collins in much more slowly than expected coming into this season.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

It’s been well documented that he turned down much bigger offers. He shot himself in the foot. He’s also had a good season and doesn’t have a puck attached.

You also didn’t answer the question. 

I’ve answered the question in other threads. Option 1 would be JDM. Option 2 would be Castellanos. Option 3 would be Moustakas. 

[ChiSox59]

4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I guess I want to see what the Sox have with Collins before spending big money at the catcher’s position. He’s been on a tear since his demotion. Let’s see what the kid can do. McCann has bought the Sox some time to break Collins in much more slowly than expected coming into this season.

 You won’t really be able to see what you have in Collins if he’s relegated to back up catching duties behind McCann 

[ChiSox59]

4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’ve answered the question in other threads. Option 1 would be JDM. Option 2 would be Castellanos. Option 3 would be Moustakas. 

You just listed 3 DHs. You got Leury in RF?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

You just listed 3 DHs. You got Leury in RF?

Puig

[Ducksnort]

3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Puig

Gross

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said:

Gross

Well, it’s going to happen so better get used to it now 

[Chicago White Sox]

38 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Well, it’s going to happen so better get used to it now 

Wait...what?

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Wait...what?

He's one of those guys we've seemingly talked about for years, and would fit with the ol "KW always gets his guy" thing that we had for about a decade. 

[Moan4Yoan]

35 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

He's one of those guys we've seemingly talked about for years, and would fit with the ol "KW always gets his guy" thing that we had for about a decade. 

It won’t be a surprise at all.  People may want Castellanos over Puig but he switch agents to Boras during the start of the season.  Between Castellanos’s hot streak and Boras, the Sox aren’t likely to enter the bidding war this offseason.

[pcq]

5 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Yep. With the emergence of McCann this season, it allows the Sox with the perfect opportunity of breaking in Collins slowly without asking too much of him (e.g. only starting in games where the opposing starter is a righty, splitting time between catcher and DH, etc).

McCann is the perfect mentor for Zachariah.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

He's one of those guys we've seemingly talked about for years, and would fit with the ol "KW always gets his guy" thing that we had for about a decade. 

Yep. Just connect the dots. Plus, he’s going to be relatively cheap, limited number of suitors, and the Sox already have several other Cubans on the roster to make him feel at home. I’d be surprised if it didn’t happen tbh.

[Jack Parkman]

30 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Yep. Just connect the dots. Plus, he’s going to be relatively cheap, limited number of suitors, and the Sox already have several other Cubans on the roster to make him feel at home. I’d be surprised if it didn’t happen tbh.

Me too, though I'd rather trade for Polanco or Mazara. Neither should be that expensive. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Timmy U]

I will point out that Puig hits right-handed, is a clubhouse cancer, and isn’t very good.  Personally, I would rather have Avi back, if we’re getting a similar skill set.