Is Ricky the worst manager in White Sox history?

[Lip Man 1]

6 hours ago, poppysox said:

Many would add Larussa list of outstanding ones even though I wasn't nuts over him.

I would agree with Tony although that was more Roland Hemond's doing.

[knightni]

Terry Bevington started arguing with an umpire that his player was out instead of safe because he got confused.

He also went out to talk to a pitcher without realizing that it was the second time that he visited and he had to pull him.  He had no one warming up in the bullpen

[TBrown54]

Don Kessinger?  He lasted less than a season, but he was not interim.  He was named manager for start of 1979, so he qualifies

Edited May 25, 2019 by TBrown54

[TBrown54]

What I recall most about Ventura Era was 2016.  During Sox hot April start, it seemed he was going "all in" with the bullpen every time they had a chance to win; consuming many pitchers in nine inning games.  Then April became May, and the inevitable bullpen (and season) collapse, including the infamous Memorial Day Weekend meltdown in KC.  Great player, great guy, but he makes the top 5 worst list since after 1970 (the still franchise record 106 loss season).

[NWINFan]

31 minutes ago, TBrown54 said:

Don Kessinger?  He lasted less than a season, but he was not interim.  He was named manager for start of 1979, so he qualifies

Kessinger was too nice a guy to be manager, but he was also saddled with a no-talent team.  There have been worse than him. Like Bevington and Ozzie in his last year.

[poppysox]

 

 

20 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

Kessinger was too nice a guy to be manager, but he was also saddled with a no-talent team.  There have been worse than him. Like Bevington and Ozzie in his last year.

Last year Ozzie was in a class of his own.

[TBrown54]

19 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

Kessinger was too nice a guy to be manager, but he was also saddled with a no-talent team.  There have been worse than him. Like Bevington and Ozzie in his last year.

Washington slept there :-)

[TBrown54]

3 minutes ago, poppysox said:

 

 

Last year Ozzie was in a class of his own.

At least Ozzie was good for some publicity, helped keep the Sox relevant, despite current aging stars and no future stars (except Sale).  But, yes, if Ozzie was fired years earlier, we might have been spared Adam Dunn and "All In" disasters.    

[greg775]

6 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

If I last another 30 years I will be telling folks legends about the white Sox manager who allowed a preteen to have a locker with the team for the full year and then was so checked out that one of his own players described that kid as the teams true leader. Somehow I will have to weave the jersey cutting up into this story. It’s truly an epic tale of a manager who gave up and could not have cared less. Youngsters won’t believe it.

This is the difference between you and me. 100 percent difference. I disagree with everything you say here. It's all minutia. Who cares about the LaRoche saga? The guy was a horrific hitter by the time we got him and this sped up his leaving which was a blessing. Who cares if the kid shook up the locker room? Not me. Who cares if Sale cut up the jerseys? Many of you worry and rightly so about pitchers getting injured. Sale was mighty uncomfortable in those monstrocity uniforms. he said he didn't want to pitch in them. They did it anyway. he cut them up. I consider it hilarious and proper. Who cares??? This is a multi million dollar organization. Get out a new box of uniforms. Sale was a superstar for gosh sakes. Finally you probably also hate Ozzie for "quitting on the team." Again who cares?? The team was done; Ozzie was finished as a Sox. He sped the process. Big deal.

I'm more concerned about the tank era (though I do love Eloy, Moncada, Timmy).

[ptatc]

3 hours ago, knightni said:

Terry Bevington started arguing with an umpire that his player was out instead of safe because he got confused.

He also went out to talk to a pitcher without realizing that it was the second time that he visited and he had to pull him.  He had no one warming up in the bullpen

The policy of the pitcher being removed as soon as he walked his 4th hitter was a good one too.

[knightni]

3 hours ago, knightni said:

Terry Bevington started arguing with an umpire that his player was out instead of safe because he got confused.

He also went out to talk to a pitcher without realizing that it was the second time that he visited and he had to pull him.  He had no one warming up in the bullpen.

He argued fair/foul. And got confused.

[poppysox]

How do you guys think Joe Mauer would fit as WS manager?

[JoshPR]

18 hours ago, SouthWallace said:

I have very little memory of Bevington so it's hard to compare.  As bad as RR is, I still feel like Robin was slightly worse.   

Bevington was terrible

[wegner]

I'd have to agree that Bevington was the worst.  However,and I was young at the time and could be wrong but I seem to remember that Larry Doby gave the impression of not doing much but I'm not sure he really wanted the job....kinda like Ventura now that I think about it.

Edited May 25, 2019 by wegner

[Moan4Yoan]

5 hours ago, knightni said:

Terry Bevington started arguing with an umpire that his player was out instead of safe because he got confused.

He also went out to talk to a pitcher without realizing that it was the second time that he visited and he had to pull him.  He had no one warming up in the bullpen

I remember the second one but not the first.  Hilarious.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I remember the second one but not the first.  Hilarious.

September 14, 1997 - Carlton Fisk had his uniform #72 retired in a ceremony before the Sox took on Cleveland. The game was also remembered for manager Terry Bevington going to the mound to change pitchers...expect for the fact that no one was warming up in the Sox bullpen when he called for the change!

Bevington was just a nut job. Paul Sullivan used to be the Sox beat writer for the Tribune (when they actually gave a damn about the Sox) and he grew up a Sox fan. He told me he specifically requested a change in assignments because he simply couldn't take dealing with Bevington anymore.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Lip Man 1

[poppysox]

14 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

September 14, 1997 - Carlton Fisk had his uniform #72 retired in a ceremony before the Sox took on Cleveland. The game was also remembered for manager Terry Bevington going to the mound to change pitchers...expect for the fact that no one was warming up in the Sox bullpen when he called for the change!

Bevington was just a nut job. Paul Sullivan used to be the Sox beat writer for the Tribune (when they actually gave a damn about the Sox) and he grew up a Sox fan. He told me he specifically requested a change in assignments because he simply couldn't take dealing with Bevington anymore.

Ah...good times!

[Hatchetman]

I think Jim Fregosi was the last guy we had that understood what the hell was going on.

[TBrown54]

3 hours ago, poppysox said:

How do you guys think Joe Mauer would fit as WS manager?

This will be crazy to many, but Sox should have hired Ryne Sandberg when the Cubs passed him over in favor of Mike Quade.  Ryno paid his dues in minors, was popular with Sox fans, and one of most popular Cubs in history in visible role with their rival would have been shaken them and their fan base up a bit.  He would have only needed to be "placeholder", average manager while the inept front office got their act together and began a rebuild.  As for Mauer, I thought he would be a Twin for life, or is he -- like Sandberg was -- interested in managing?

[Boopa1219]

For a guy who’s a been applauded for his ability to develop young players, I’m shocked at how bad the Sox are on defense. They ranked 28 in Ricky’s first year, 27th last year and they’re ranked 29th so far this season in terms of fielding percentage and errors. Would you say that the Sox are a better fundamental team since he took over? Do you see any improvement? What’s the last fundamentally sound White Sox team? 2012?

I’m also not a fan of his lineup construction and he’s not a good in game strategist. Alonso and Castillo have no business batting cleanup. Tim Anderson needs to be batting higher up in the order, I’ve been a proponent of batting him lead off, he could bat fifth or sixth too.

Yeah, Ill give Ricky some credit for Anderson’s success and Moncada’s emergence (fingers crossed) but I think the Sox should bring in a new manager and conduct a search for someone outside of the organization. Even if they do hire someone from the inside, they should interview as many people as possible to get a feel on how other organization’s do thing and apply what they learn to the org. 

[Boopa1219]

For what it’s worth, the Sox are currently slightly outperforming their Pythagorean Win-Loss project which has the Sox at 21-30 as of this post they are 23-28. The Pythagorean projection puts the Sox on pace for 66 wins and another top five draft pick. 

[ron883]

5 hours ago, Joshua Strong said:

For a guy who’s a been applauded for his ability to develop young players, I’m shocked at how bad the Sox are on defense. They ranked 28 in Ricky’s first year, 27th last year and they’re ranked 29th so far this season in terms of fielding percentage and errors. Would you say that the Sox are a better fundamental team since he took over? Do you see any improvement? What’s the last fundamentally sound White Sox team? 2012?

I’m also not a fan of his lineup construction and he’s not a good in game strategist. Alonso and Castillo have no business batting cleanup. Tim Anderson needs to be batting higher up in the order, I’ve been a proponent of batting him lead off, he could bat fifth or sixth too.

Yeah, Ill give Ricky some credit for Anderson’s success and Moncada’s emergence (fingers crossed) but I think the Sox should bring in a new manager and conduct a search for someone outside of the organization. Even if they do hire someone from the inside, they should interview as many people as possible to get a feel on how other organization’s do thing and apply what they learn to the org. 

I'm giving Steverson more credit for Moncada and Anderson

[Melton1972]

I wouldnt say that Paul Richards was a bad manager, but  he was so miserable during the 1976 season he admitted to a reporter that he was looking forward to the end of the season.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Melton1972 said:

I wouldnt say that Paul Richards was a bad manager, but  he was so miserable during the 1976 season he admitted to a reporter that he was looking forward to the end of the season.

Richards was the guy who started the "Golden Age" of the franchise, the run of 17 straight winning seasons (how good would that look today?) as they went from "Rags to Richards" in 1951. back in his day he was terrific. Billy Pierce told me he was the best manager he ever played for.

Regarding 1976, Richards also said he did it simply as a favor to Bill Veeck and actually reached out to Chuck Tanner (according to what Chuck told me when I interviewed him) asking him to stay as third base coach and retake the managerial job in 1977.

[Melton1972]

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Richards was the guy who started the "Golden Age" of the franchise, the run of 17 straight winning seasons (how good would that look today?) as they went from "Rags to Richards" in 1951. back in his day he was terrific. Billy Pierce told me he was the best manager he ever played for.

Regarding 1976, Richards also said he did it simply as a favor to Bill Veeck and actually reached out to Chuck Tanner (according to what Chuck told me when I interviewed him) asking him to stay as third base coach and retake the managerial job in 1977.

Did Chuck Tanner want to quit the White Sox manager job or did Bill Veeck force him out. I recall seeing a photo of the two of them talking amiably and the next thing I heard is that Tanner was gone. I know Tanner was from Pa. and would take the Pirates job if it was available.