Embrace The Tank!!!

[Thad Bosley]

4 minutes ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

@Moan4Yoan and @Fan O'Faust in one place.  It's like all the negativity and lack of information all in one place.

 

Keep this in mind before they they both take new troll usernames.

Lol - you might want to see to get some Windex out and clean your mirrors before you go throwing this kind of comment out at anyone else on this board.  

Talk about trolling!  

[Quin]

18 minutes ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

And you kept them long enough for all of us to complain.  We get it, you're unhappy.  Take it up with your therapist.

To be fair, he couldn't change Harper2Sox without administrator help. That is not on him.

[Moan4Yoan]

34 minutes ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

And you kept them long enough for all of us to complain.  We get it, you're unhappy.  Take it up with your therapist.

I also had both names while both players were still free agents.  I actually thought the Sox would get one of them.

[ptatc]

2 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I mentioned one guy getting hurt.  Meanwhile, you are trying to defend the Sox history of first round draft picks and ended up proving my point by bringing up yet another bust in Hawkins.  Hilarious.

you mentioned two guys in burger and mitchell.

I have not defended any of the picks other than Rodon.

I just said we dont know. you are the one saying guys like burger and Collins are busts.

[Moan4Yoan]

6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

you mentioned two guys in burger and mitchell.

I have not defended any of the picks other than Rodon.

I just said we dont know. you are the one saying guys like burger and Collins are busts.

I mentioned Mitchell but it had nothing to do with injuries.  You mentioned his injury and how it derailed his career.  I also never called Collins a bust.  But at this point, I don’t expect much from Burger.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I’ve had 3 names -- Machado2Sox, Harper2Sox, and Moan4Yoan.  Obviously from my first two names, you can see why I am disappointed in the Sox front office.

those are valid reasons to he disappointed in the front office.

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I mentioned Mitchell but it had nothing to do with injuries.  You mentioned his injury and how it derailed his career.  I also never called Collins a bust.  But at this point, I don’t expect much from Burger.

the only thing that slowed Mitchell down was the injury. that was the reason we never found out if he could be a real prospect. You just not have followed his career if you didnt know that so it's hard to call him a busted draft pick.

[Moan4Yoan]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

the only thing that slowed Mitchell down was the injury. that was the reason we never found out if he could be a real prospect. You just not have followed his career if you didnt know that so it's hard to call him a busted draft pick.

A bust is a bust is a bust.  If a guy gets drafted in the first round and never sniffs your major league roster, he’s a bust.

[ptatc]

Just now, Moan4Yoan said:

A bust is a bust is a bust.  If a guy gets drafted in the first round and never sniffs your major league roster, he’s a bust.

again I will need to hire you for the clinic since you can predict the players that will bust due to injury. 

just because they get injured doesn't mean it wasn't a good pick at the time.

you live in revisionist history just to further your agenda.

[Moan4Yoan]

8 minutes ago, ptatc said:

again I will need to hire you for the clinic since you can predict the players that will bust due to injury. 

just because they get injured doesn't mean it wasn't a good pick at the time.

you live in revisionist history just to further your agenda.

What agenda?  That the Sox history of first round picks is awful?  That is a fact, not an agenda, and claiming it to be otherwise is the true revisionist history.

“A good pick at the time” in the 2009 draft would have been Mike Trout who was drafted two picks after Jared Mitchell.  Mitchell is a bust.

Is Jerry Reinsdorf part-owner of your clinic?

Edited May 27, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[ptatc]

8 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

What agenda?  That the Sox history of first round picks is awful?  That is a fact, not an agenda, and claiming it to be otherwise is the true revisionist history.

“A good pick at the time” in the 2009 draft would have been Mike Trout who was drafted two picks after Jared Mitchell.  Mitchell is a bust.

Is Jerry Reinsdorf part-owner of your clinic?

The agenda to be all negative all the time.

I disagree that the first round has been awful as the most recent ones other than Fulmer which was bad unless he becomes a really good reliever.  Most of the picks are still unproven either way.

If you followed my posts I'm not a fan of JR. I just dont think that EVERY SINGLE THING the organization does is the worst possible thing in the history of the world. 

Ice been pretty fair in my criticism of both the front office and maybe overly critical of the blame on JR.

[Moan4Yoan]

28 minutes ago, ptatc said:

The agenda to be all negative all the time.

I disagree that the first round has been awful as the most recent ones other than Fulmer which was bad unless he becomes a really good reliever.  Most of the picks are still unproven either way.

If you followed my posts I'm not a fan of JR. I just dont think that EVERY SINGLE THING the organization does is the worst possible thing in the history of the world. 

Ice been pretty fair in my criticism of both the front office and maybe overly critical of the blame on JR.

You are posting in a thread named “Embrace the Tank!!!” and I didn’t start it.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[ptatc]

43 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

You are posting in a thread named “Embrace the Tank!!!” and I didn’t start it.

Good point. I'm embracing the tank.

I dont think they should sign 1 or 2 year free agents to take away draft picks or spots from young players. I really dont care if they lose this year 

I'm just not as despondent about this last series or negative about the future as most other people here.

I think they should be losing and giving all the at bats to prospects.

Once they started the tank, I think they should be all in on it  and not do the short term gain route that Minnesota is.

[Jack Parkman]

3 hours ago, ptatc said:

Good point. I'm embracing the tank.

I dont think they should sign 1 or 2 year free agents to take away draft picks or spots from young players. I really dont care if they lose this year 

I'm just not as despondent about this last series or negative about the future as most other people here.

I think they should be losing and giving all the at bats to prospects.

Once they started the tank, I think they should be all in on it  and not do the short term gain route that Minnesota is.

Injuries and underperformance are killing the rebuild though. They really don't have much in the minors outside of Cease, Robert, Madrigal and maybe Bush and Collins. When Cease and Robert graduate they're right back to a bottom 10 if not a bottom 5 farm system. They have a few interesting prospects, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Sox have one or zero T100 prospects in July 2020.  I cant think of any interesting prospects outside of Bush and Madrigal once Cease, Robert and Collins graduate. I guess you could consider Rutherford semi-interesting for one more season. 

EDIT: Pilkington is mildly interesting if he's still topping at 91, and if he's back to 93-95 he's interesting. 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

The agenda to be all negative all the time.

I disagree that the first round has been awful as the most recent ones other than Fulmer which was bad unless he becomes a really good reliever.  Most of the picks are still unproven either way.

If you followed my posts I'm not a fan of JR. I just dont think that EVERY SINGLE THING the organization does is the worst possible thing in the history of the world. 

Ice been pretty fair in my criticism of both the front office and maybe overly critical of the blame on JR.

I agree that it is to soon to call anything on the recent first round picks save for Fulmer. I think his mechanics are so screwed up, he's all over the place and I don't think they can be fixed...at least not by this organization.

However I do think fans have a right to be concerned about the first round picks overall by this ownership / organization. Historically if you go back to 1981 when JR took over the track record has been very poor.

Arguably the only Sox first round picks to have had anything close to a decent Major League career (and that of course is a judgment call) have been Daryl Boston (1981), Ron Karkovice (1982), Jack McDowell (1987), Robin Ventura (1988), Frank Thomas (1989), Alex Fernandez (1990), Mark Johnson (1994), Jeff Leifer (1995), Gordon Beckham (2008), Chris Sale (2010), Tim Anderson (2013), Carlos Rodon (2014).

And again that's giving the benefit of the doubt to some of them regarding a "decent" big league career. The only sure fire ones were Karkovice, McDowell, Ventura, Thomas, Fernandez, Sale and Anderson. That's seven in 42 years.

The misses? Joel Davis and Russ Morman (1983), Tony Menedez and Tom Hartley (1984), Kurt Brown (1985), Grady Hall (1986), Scott Rufforn (1991), Eddie Pierson (1992), Scott Christman (1993), Bobby Seay (1996-never signed with Sox), Jason Dellaero (1997), Kip Wells (1998), Jason Stumm and Matt Ginter (1999), Joe Borchard (2000), Kris Honel (2001), Royce Ring (2002), Brian Anderson (2003), Josh Fields (2004), Lance Broadway (2005), Kyle McCulloch (2006), Aaron Poreda (2007), Jared Mitchell (2009), Keenyn Walker (2011), Courtney Hawkins (2012), Carson Fulmer (2015)

Zach Collins and Zach Burdi (2016), Jake Burger (2017) and Nick Madrigal (2018) are still in the minor leagues.

Hartley, Brown,Hall, Pearson, Christman, Stumm, Honel, McCulloch, Mitchell, Walker and Hawkins never spent a day in the big leagues. And some of the Sox first round picks who eventually made the big leagues were with other clubs after they were traded.

If the rebuild is going to work the draft AND developing of the kids picked has to be paramount and again, Sox fans have reasons to be concerned in these areas in my opinion.        

[GreenSox]

5 hours ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

This troll can't even count.

Let's see:  13, 14, 15. 16, 17, 18 = 6 years.  19 = 7th year.  I didn't even need an abacus.

The Astros lost for several years prior to the official rebuild, as did the Cubs, as did the Sox.  Try some consistency.

Edited May 27, 2019 by GreenSox

[ptatc]

30 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I agree that it is to soon to call anything on the recent first round picks save for Fulmer. I think his mechanics are so screwed up, he's all over the place and I don't think they can be fixed...at least not by this organization.

However I do think fans have a right to be concerned about the first round picks overall by this ownership / organization. Historically if you go back to 1981 when JR took over the track record has been very poor.

Arguably the only Sox first round picks to have had anything close to a decent Major League career (and that of course is a judgment call) have been Daryl Boston (1981), Ron Karkovice (1982), Jack McDowell (1987), Robin Ventura (1988), Frank Thomas (1989), Alex Fernandez (1990), Mark Johnson (1994), Jeff Leifer (1995), Gordon Beckham (2008), Chris Sale (2010), Tim Anderson (2013), Carlos Rodon (2014).

And again that's giving the benefit of the doubt to some of them regarding a "decent" big league career. The only sure fire ones were Karkovice, McDowell, Ventura, Thomas, Fernandez, Sale and Anderson. That's seven in 42 years.

The misses? Joel Davis and Russ Morman (1983), Tony Menedez and Tom Hartley (1984), Kurt Brown (1985), Grady Hall (1986), Scott Rufforn (1991), Eddie Pierson (1992), Scott Christman (1993), Bobby Seay (1996-never signed with Sox), Jason Dellaero (1997), Kip Wells (1998), Jason Stumm and Matt Ginter (1999), Joe Borchard (2000), Kris Honel (2001), Royce Ring (2002), Brian Anderson (2003), Josh Fields (2004), Lance Broadway (2005), Kyle McCulloch (2006), Aaron Poreda (2007), Jared Mitchell (2009), Keenyn Walker (2011), Courtney Hawkins (2012), Carson Fulmer (2015)

Zach Collins and Zach Burdi (2016), Jake Burger (2017) and Nick Madrigal (2018) are still in the minor leagues.

Hartley, Brown,Hall, Pearson, Christman, Stumm, Honel, McCulloch, Mitchell, Walker and Hawkins never spent a day in the big leagues. And some of the Sox first round picks who eventually made the big leagues were with other clubs after they were traded.

If the rebuild is going to work the draft AND developing of the kids picked has to be paramount and again, Sox fans have reasons to be concerned in these areas in my opinion.        

Everyone has a right to he concerned, however going back in history doesn't really apply  The current head of the draft took over in 2016 with many new scouts and staff.

you can live in the past or look at what really matters and judge the current group by what they have done. it is a mixed success in the minors and majors but to judge this group by what happened with previous regimes isn't really applicable.

[whitesoxbrad]

46 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Injuries and underperformance are killing the rebuild though. They really don't have much in the minors outside of Cease, Robert, Madrigal and maybe Bush and Collins. When Cease and Robert graduate they're right back to a bottom 10 if not a bottom 5 farm system. They have a few interesting prospects, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Sox have one or zero T100 prospects in July 2020.  I cant think of any interesting prospects outside of Bush and Madrigal once Cease, Robert and Collins graduate. I guess you could consider Rutherford semi-interesting for one more season. 

You are correct in what you are saying, so what does  this say about there drafting, my opinion " unacceptable".

[Lip Man 1]

12 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Everyone has a right to he concerned, however going back in history doesn't really apply  The current head of the draft took over in 2016 with many new scouts and staff.

you can live in the past or look at what really matters and judge the current group by what they have done. it is a mixed success in the minors and majors but to judge this group by what happened with previous regimes isn't really applicable.

PTATC: I must respectfully disagree to a certain extent because ownership is still the same. Said owner has publicly stated many time how he doesn't like to pay for "potential" as in draft picks which is why he fought so hard to change the drafting system. Also this same owner continues to "suggest" who the Sox should be drafting to those in charge of it. (And I've been told that from two different sources.)

What's the old saying (paraphrasing) "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it..."

[Moan4Yoan]

47 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Everyone has a right to he concerned, however going back in history doesn't really apply  The current head of the draft took over in 2016 with many new scouts and staff.

you can live in the past or look at what really matters and judge the current group by what they have done. it is a mixed success in the minors and majors but to judge this group by what happened with previous regimes isn't really applicable.

You act like Jerry, Kenny, and Hahn have no say on who is taken in the draft.  Jerry has been around forever, Kenny has been here since 2000, and Rick has been here since 2002.  What are these previous regimes you speak of?

Edited May 28, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[poppysox]

4 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

You act like Jerry, Kenny, and Hahn have no say on who is taken in the draft.  Jerry has been around forever, Kenny has been here since 2000, and Rick has been here since 2002.  What are these previous regimes you speak of?

Kenny has always prized athleticism  over baseball skills.  Hasn't always worked.

[ptatc]

13 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

You act like Jerry, Kenny, and Hahn have no say on who is taken in the draft.  Jerry has been around forever, Kenny has been here since 2000, and Rick has been here since 2002.  What are these previous regimes you speak of?

of course they have a say except for possibly JR. I dont know his involved he is in the draft.

The VP and GM do not go to the back fields in Mississippi and see every high school player. The area scouts and cross checkers do most of that dirty work. then the person in charge of the draft compiles it all. this is hostetler and his group. they compile everything. he will present the stuff to Hahn and KW. They have input on the first pick or two but after that they probably know very little. they have too much to do running the big club and the business side.

Since Hostetler brought in his group,  this is the regime I was referring to, the drafting group is only a few years old.

[ptatc]

13 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Kenny has always prized athleticism  over baseball skills.  Hasn't always worked.

Especially when he was in charge of minor league personnel prior to becoming GM.

[OneDog847]

On 5/26/2019 at 4:25 PM, GreenSox said:

By that calendar, this is year 7 of the Sox rebuild.

 

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

Let's see:  13, 14, 15. 16, 17, 18 = 6 years.  19 = 7th year.  I didn't even need an abacus.

The Astros lost for several years prior to the official rebuild, as did the Cubs, as did the Sox.  Try some consistency.

How is this year 7 of the Sox rebuild? The Sale Trade kicked off the official rebuild and that was done prior to the 17 season. The Sox were going for it prior to 17 so you can't include those seasons. Shark trade? Frazier trade? Shields trade= Going for it. 

Houston started their rebuild in 2010 and made the playoffs in 2015. They punted away 5 full seasons before they made the playoffs.

The Cubs punted away 3 full seasons before their rebuild bore fruit. If the Sox were on that same trajectory than we should expect a deep deep playoff run in 2020.  

 

[OneDog847]

12 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Hard to take any of your opinions serious when you figured out just this past weekend that the Twins have a very good young core and will be a formidable division rival for the next several years.

Dude, you must not respect any of the Fangraphs writers or dudes on MLB TV cause no one thought this Twins team would be this good so far in 2019.