Moan4Yoan Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 21 minutes ago, greg775 said: Speaking for the tank/rebuild people, they don't care about that. Relievers are a dime a dozen, blah blah. We'll pick up somebody in the offseason or just have somebody in our system try to close. The moment we got Colome, the tank/rebuild lovers were dreaming of the day we get to "flip" him and who we get. I think if they told the truth they'd admit they want to flip Abreu as well. I'm a bit surprised there's not a lot of flip salivation regarding McCann. Why would you not trade Abreu? He’s a free agent after this year. You can always resign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 34 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: Why would you not trade Abreu? He’s a free agent after this year. You can always resign him. Maybe he asks the Sox not to trade him? Abreu has been a loyal soldier and JR will reward him for that. I'm thinking he signs a 3 year extension soon. He will cover first base in 2020 and move to DH once Vaughn is ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, greg775 said: Speaking for the tank/rebuild people, they don't care about that. Relievers are a dime a dozen, blah blah. We'll pick up somebody in the offseason or just have somebody in our system try to close. The moment we got Colome, the tank/rebuild lovers were dreaming of the day we get to "flip" him and who we Rget. I think if they told the truth they'd admit they want to flip Abreu as well. I'm a bit surprised there's not a lot of flip salivation regarding McCann. Relievers are a dime a dozen but good relief/closer pitchers are hard to come by. Colome is the first good reliever/closer the team has had since David Robertson. If the White Sox trade Colome who would become the closer? Maybe Bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 20 minutes ago, WBWSF said: Relievers are a dime a dozen but good relief/closer pitchers are hard to come by. Colome is the first good reliever/closer the team has had since David Robertson. If the White Sox trade Colome who would become the closer? Maybe Bummer. Joakim Soria was good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 hours ago, OneDog847 said: Yep. The Sox should be trying to compete next year. Whose your closer in 2020 if you trade Colome? Bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 44 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: Maybe he asks the Sox not to trade him? Abreu has been a loyal soldier and JR will reward him for that. I'm thinking he signs a 3 year extension soon. He will cover first base in 2020 and move to DH once Vaughn is ready. Leaning 51-49 in favor of a 2 or 3 year extension for Jose if the price is reasonable. I certainly would not give him away with anything other than a fair offer. Same exact feeling I have concerning Colome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, bmags said: Joakim Soria was good. Soria was also a pure rental. Colome has another year of control which increases his value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 4 hours ago, ChiSox59 said: Edwin Diaz isn't getting traded, and the other ones he listed are nowhere near as good as Colome. How are Greene and Holland not as good or better? Both are cheaper this year, Greene has 2 years of control, Greene is pitching comparable to Colome this year, Holland is pitching better. 4 hours ago, ChiSox59 said: What is your logic on this other than just viewing everything white sox related in a negative lens? Last year at the trade deadline, Soria had only a few months remaining on his contract at a salary of $9 million. He had a 2.56 ERA, a walk rate matching Colome's this year, and a better strikeout rate. Soria's ERA was slightly worse than Colome's is right now, but the advanced stats all like that Soria was more likely to strike an opponent out, leaving Soria with better FIP numbers. Colome is being supported right now by a .130 BABIP, his career number is .283, so his numbers scream regression coming. Colome is making $7.35 million this year, so this year he is slightly cheaper than Soria last year. Yes, he has an arb year available for next year, but that option is expensive enough that some teams won't want to pay it, meaning that his value is limited in trades next offseason. So overall, Colome is on paper putting up an ERA comparable to Soria with worse peripherals, but he has an extra year of expensive control. A team that is willing to spend the money over 2 years might value a Colome more, a team that wants the best reliever they can find or a team who has salary limits would prefer 2018 Soria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 5 hours ago, mqr said: Abreu , Maybe. But CJ Cron has been a hell of lot better than Abreu so I definitely don't see what you see there. But I am absolutely not giving them a guy that can help them in 2020 in Colome. Is CJ Cron for real though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 hours ago, bmags said: Joakim Soria was good. Soria wasn't a hard thrower. He also only had one year of control left (was going to get bought out). What are his numbers this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, steveno89 said: Soria was also a pure rental. Colome has another year of control which increases his value. Doesn’t mean he wasn’t good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: Is CJ Cron for real though? There could be something I'm missing but I think he might be a "Launch angle" guy. His BABIP is identical to the one he put up last season, his HR/Fly Ball rate spiked last year but this year isn't as high as last year, basically it looks like he's just taking better swings and having the ball go farther when he makes contact each of the last 2 years, getting better each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 29 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: Is CJ Cron for real though? Cron was this good last season. If you look at his baseball reference page - he had also been building towards a season like the past two for the first few seasons of his career. His numbers during his final two years in LA were not far behind where he's been at in TB and MIN over a 162 game pace. The Angels stadium is also a horrible place for HR's. Especially for righties. Not that Tampa is much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 The thing that is different about Colome than say Greg Holland, Joakim Soria or some of these other guys that people are comparing him to is that Colome has a track record of being really good. Like he has no down years at all and is in the prime of his career. I think their is difference between a premier relief pitcher and one that is just good for one year or had multiple down years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, kwill said: The thing that is different about Colome than say Greg Holland, Joakim Soria or some of these other guys that people are comparing him to is that Colome has a track record of being really good. Like he has no down years at all and is in the prime of his career. I think their is difference between a premier relief pitcher and one that is just good for one year or had multiple down years. Agreed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 30 minutes ago, kwill said: The thing that is different about Colome than say Greg Holland, Joakim Soria or some of these other guys that people are comparing him to is that Colome has a track record of being really good. Like he has no down years at all and is in the prime of his career. I think their is difference between a premier relief pitcher and one that is just good for one year or had multiple down years. He is definitely reliable but he's also not a premier relief pitcher. He puts up an ERA around 3 every year and is tolerable but not spectacular in a closing role. The only way we could plausibly argue he was a "Premier" relief pitcher was if he was suddenly better this year and putting up a sub 2 ERA, which is what he was doing when this thread started, but it's climbing back up into the normal range for him, as expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Balta1701 said: He is definitely reliable but he's also not a premier relief pitcher. He puts up an ERA around 3 every year and is tolerable but not spectacular in a closing role. The only way we could plausibly argue he was a "Premier" relief pitcher was if he was suddenly better this year and putting up a sub 2 ERA, which is what he was doing when this thread started, but it's climbing back up into the normal range for him, as expected. I agree that a sub 2.00 ERA would make you premier but I would like to point out there is not one relief pitcher who has a sub 2.00 ERA for both this year and last year. And there was only 7 all of last year. So maybe the definition of premier needs to expand slightly. I do understand what you are saying though. I probably would not put him in the Chapman, Kimbrel and Diaz class as he does not strike enough people out. But, I would put him in the class just below it which still is extremely valuable considering the bullpens of some of the present contenders. Edited June 8, 2019 by kwill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 2 hours ago, kwill said: I agree that a sub 2.00 ERA would make you premier but I would like to point out there is not one relief pitcher who has a sub 2.00 ERA for both this year and last year. And there was only 7 all of last year. So maybe the definition of premier needs to expand slightly. I do understand what you are saying though. I probably would not put him in the Chapman, Kimbrel and Diaz class as he does not strike enough people out. But, I would put him in the class just below it which still is extremely valuable considering the bullpens of some of the present contenders. If a ninth inning guy can reliably get the save he will multiple suiters. I have no doubt that if the decision is to cut bait he will bring a nice piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 There might be 3-4 better closers available according to reports coming out since Kimbrel signed. Iglesias and Hand are possibly hitting the market. I wouldn't give up a top 100 prospect for Colome, as it's not like he's under control next year for an insane bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 7 hours ago, fathom said: There might be 3-4 better closers available according to reports coming out since Kimbrel signed. Iglesias and Hand are possibly hitting the market. I wouldn't give up a top 100 prospect for Colome, as it's not like he's under control next year for an insane bargain. Me neither. I think a true contender would consider Colome a supplemental arm, one that builds up your 7th/8th dominance. If I’m giving up a top prospect the closer would need to be performing well and have a k rate closer to 35% than 25% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 7 hours ago, fathom said: There might be 3-4 better closers available according to reports coming out since Kimbrel signed. Iglesias and Hand are possibly hitting the market. I wouldn't give up a top 100 prospect for Colome, as it's not like he's under control next year for an insane bargain. The question is not what you or I would give up... but what would some GM who views him as the guy who solves all their problems give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 7 hours ago, fathom said: There might be 3-4 better closers available according to reports coming out since Kimbrel signed. Iglesias and Hand are possibly hitting the market. I wouldn't give up a top 100 prospect for Colome, as it's not like he's under control next year for an insane bargain. Then if you are the White Sox, it’s simply enough. If the trade market next month becomes overly saturated with relievers, you hold on to Colome for another year. This is truly a win-win from the Sox perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Colome alone will not bring a 'needle mover'. Colome plus Bummer gets an interesting return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, Flash said: Colome alone will not bring a 'needle mover'. Colome plus Bummer gets an interesting return. 17 minutes ago, Flash said: Colome alone will not bring a 'needle mover'. Colome plus Bummer gets an interesting return. That needle would have to move quite a bit to interest me. I like both guys a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Might not have to be Bummer but depending on return expectations, Colome not enough to command a premium. Guys I would entertain adding, if not Bummer, include Abreu, Lopez, Sanchez and/or minor league assets. A team like Milwaukee might part with Coey Ray (change of scenery candidate) and Turang for the right package. Also, Red Sox might be willing to barter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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