NotHahn Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 20 hours ago, Balta1701 said: He is definitely reliable but he's also not a premier relief pitcher. He puts up an ERA around 3 every year and is tolerable but not spectacular in a closing role. The only way we could plausibly argue he was a "Premier" relief pitcher was if he was suddenly better this year and putting up a sub 2 ERA, which is what he was doing when this thread started, but it's climbing back up into the normal range for him, as expected. Come on now. Even if he does have a sub 2.00 era would you consider him a premium relief pitcher? You already made your mind up about him. When he is a sub 2.00 which is spectacular you are going to say he doesn't strikeout enough batters or that he only throws 97. Just because the guy isn't Champan doesn't mean he still not really good. Not much difference at his era 2.19 than just under 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 If Hahn gets a decent near major league ready RF for Colome, I will be very excited. Just not another Rutherford please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 16 minutes ago, NotHahn said: Come on now. Even if he does have a sub 2.00 era would you consider him a premium relief pitcher? You already made your mind up about him. When he is a sub 2.00 which is spectacular you are going to say he doesn't strikeout enough batters or that he only throws 97. Just because the guy isn't Champan doesn't mean he still not really good. Not much difference at his era 2.19 than just under 2. Wait, people still use ERA to judge a reliever's ability? In 2019? Are we also still using RBI to judge hitters? Or errors to judge fielders? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Wait, people still use ERA to judge a reliever's ability? In 2019? Are we also still using RBI to judge hitters? Or errors to judge fielders? Yeah...we shouldn't use any of that triple crown crap to judge players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 The single most important stat for a closer is save %. And in that category Colome is a perfect 13/13 this season. I don’t give a shit if a guy strikes out 2 per inning on average and has great advanced stats if he’s blowing 2 out of every 10 save opportunities as the team’s closer. Nothing more demoralizing to a team than blowing 9th inning leads. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 The Abreu and Colome decisions will be interesting to follow. Both players could be part of the rebuilt contender. Also, both players qualify as our biggest available trade chips. I would imagine other teams will make these decisions for us. No reason to deal either player just to be making a deal. However, now is probably the time of greatest return as apposed to the off season. I am 50-50 on what way I want it to go but if we trade... I want something in the form of major league ready players. Time to start pulling that contender together at the major league level this off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 1 hour ago, NotHahn said: Come on now. Even if he does have a sub 2.00 era would you consider him a premium relief pitcher? You already made your mind up about him. When he is a sub 2.00 which is spectacular you are going to say he doesn't strikeout enough batters or that he only throws 97. Just because the guy isn't Champan doesn't mean he still not really good. Not much difference at his era 2.19 than just under 2. Ok, you really want to go with this? The guy who is 72nd in the big leagues in fWAR amongst relievers right now, tied with f***ing Matt Albers, is a premium relief pitcher and the best pitcher on the trade market? Seriously, you guys are the mirror image of Ron with Abreu. No matter what Abreu does, he clearly will never like him, he's a solid player, he's not great, but he's not as finished as Ron would say. But You guys are the exact opposite players like Colome. He must absolutely be the best because you said so. He's a solid player, and that means he must be the only one in the big leagues. You wanna call Luca$ an elite pitcher? Be my guest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHahn Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Ok, you really want to go with this? The guy who is 72nd in the big leagues in fWAR amongst relievers right now, tied with f***ing Matt Albers, is a premium relief pitcher and the best pitcher on the trade market? Seriously, you guys are the mirror image of Ron with Abreu. No matter what Abreu does, he clearly will never like him, he's a solid player, he's not great, but he's not as finished as Ron would say. But You guys are the exact opposite players like Colome. He must absolutely be the best because you said so. He's a solid player, and that means he must be the only one in the big leagues. What I was saying is that the whole sub 2 era thing is ridiculous when measuring how good a reliever is and that most people have made up their mind on Colome being a great closer or average. I tend to think he is much better than the 72nd reliever in baseball. 13 out of 13 is so far so good. And don't you ever talk shit about Fatt Albers again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Just now, NotHahn said: What I was saying is that the whole sub 2 era thing is ridiculous when measuring how good a reliever is and that most people have made up their mind on Colome being a great closer or average. I tend to think he is much better than the 72nd reliever in baseball. 13 out of 13 is so far so good. And don't you ever talk shit about Fatt Albers again Virtually no team looking to acquire him is going to care about that number of saves. People have literally said here in this thread that if teams are acquiring him, they;re probably acquiring him for the 7th or 8th innings, and they are going to look at his overall stats. Even if they look at number of saves, they're also going to say that his save number probably is gonna get worse just like the BABIP. They're going to see a guy who is good, but not elite or legendary or premium like people somehow need to imagine on here. A piece that can help them, but comparable to several other options on the market. He has value, but if people are expecting a top 100 prospect back for him they may as just be ready to hold him for next year. Right now, Madrigal is a borderline top 100 guy, he'll probably fall off some people's top 100 lists, and if the White Sox were leading the wild card race right now and needed bullpen help I wouldn't even come close to giving up Madrigal to add Colome. He's a solid bullpen pitcher, but there are 3 or 4 solid bullpen pitchers available right now. Somehow calling him anything other than premium, elite, teh bezt, is an insult to him, and so I have to be the one who is insulting our players other than Giolito by saying "Good but not an all star". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Virtually no team looking to acquire him is going to care about that number of saves. People have literally said here in this thread that if teams are acquiring him, they;re probably acquiring him for the 7th or 8th innings, and they are going to look at his overall stats. Even if they look at number of saves, they're also going to say that his save number probably is gonna get worse just like the BABIP. They're going to see a guy who is good, but not elite or legendary or premium like people somehow need to imagine on here. A piece that can help them, but comparable to several other options on the market. He has value, but if people are expecting a top 100 prospect back for him they may as just be ready to hold him for next year. Right now, Madrigal is a borderline top 100 guy, he'll probably fall off some people's top 100 lists, and if the White Sox were leading the wild card race right now and needed bullpen help I wouldn't even come close to giving up Madrigal to add Colome. He's a solid bullpen pitcher, but there are 3 or 4 solid bullpen pitchers available right now. Somehow calling him anything other than premium, elite, teh bezt, is an insult to him, and so I have to be the one who is insulting our players other than Giolito by saying "Good but not an all star". and if that’s the extent of the return in a trade next month you keep him. Simple. I’m good with a 100 save percentage. Especially next year when this team should be very competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHahn Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: and if that’s the extent of the return in a trade next month you keep him. Simple. I’m good with a 100 save percentage. Especially next year when this team should be very competitive. Agreed. If you can't get a top 50/75 prospect then keep him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Colome for Drew Waters who says no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Frankly, with the fact that the White Sox seem good enough to actually make an attempt at this next year, maybe, maybe, madrigal can be a nonterrible option at 2b, there's a clear way forward. Vaughn comes up early next year, Abreu is signed for a year to be DH, what else do we need? One left handed starter (Keuchel or Bumgarner), a left handed right fielder, and a couple reliable relievers. This can be done. If Madrigal isn't ready then give Gennett a 1 year deal, and you know who has an overpaid LH hitting RF they'd part with while paying a portion of the salary? The Cubs. If we trade Colome, we need another reliever next offseason, and if we're targeting someone who is close to the big leagues we won't get anyone better than Cordell for him. Unlike most teams in the big leagues, money is no object for our franchise right now since the salary commits are so low, so Colome is worth more to us than he is in a trade. I think the logic suggests keeping him. That doesn't justify trading for him, but an honest appraisal of his talents and costs says he's worth more to us than to most other teams in the big leagues since $9 million next year is a pittance and our bullpen needs decent arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHahn Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Virtually no team looking to acquire him is going to care about that number of saves. People have literally said here in this thread that if teams are acquiring him, they;re probably acquiring him for the 7th or 8th innings, and they are going to look at his overall stats. Even if they look at number of saves, they're also going to say that his save number probably is gonna get worse just like the BABIP. They're going to see a guy who is good, but not elite or legendary or premium like people somehow need to imagine on here. A piece that can help them, but comparable to several other options on the market. He has value, but if people are expecting a top 100 prospect back for him they may as just be ready to hold him for next year. Right now, Madrigal is a borderline top 100 guy, he'll probably fall off some people's top 100 lists, and if the White Sox were leading the wild card race right now and needed bullpen help I wouldn't even come close to giving up Madrigal to add Colome. He's a solid bullpen pitcher, but there are 3 or 4 solid bullpen pitchers available right now. Somehow calling him anything other than premium, elite, teh bezt, is an insult to him, and so I have to be the one who is insulting our players other than Giolito by saying "Good but not an all star". No sense arguing about a trade market that you have no idea about. No one knows who will be available. If Colome is the only reliever available then that makes him premium. I don't think anyone is arguing that he is a top 10 closer but maybe in that next group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHahn Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Frankly, with the fact that the White Sox seem good enough to actually make an attempt at this next year, maybe, maybe, madrigal can be a nonterrible option at 2b, there's a clear way forward. Vaughn comes up early next year, Abreu is signed for a year to be DH, what else do we need? One left handed starter (Keuchel or Bumgarner), a left handed right fielder, and a couple reliable relievers. This can be done. If Madrigal isn't ready then give Gennett a 1 year deal, and you know who has an overpaid LH hitting RF they'd part with while paying a portion of the salary? The Cubs. If we trade Colome, we need another reliever next offseason, and if we're targeting someone who is close to the big leagues we won't get anyone better than Cordell for him. Unlike most teams in the big leagues, money is no object for our franchise right now since the salary commits are so low, so Colome is worth more to us than he is in a trade. I think the logic suggests keeping him. That doesn't justify trading for him, but an honest appraisal of his talents and costs says he's worth more to us than to most other teams in the big leagues since $9 million next year is a pittance and our bullpen needs decent arms. Agreed keep him unless someone is willing to over pay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 52 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Virtually no team looking to acquire him is going to care about that number of saves. People have literally said here in this thread that if teams are acquiring him, they;re probably acquiring him for the 7th or 8th innings, and they are going to look at his overall stats. Even if they look at number of saves, they're also going to say that his save number probably is gonna get worse just like the BABIP. They're going to see a guy who is good, but not elite or legendary or premium like people somehow need to imagine on here. A piece that can help them, but comparable to several other options on the market. He has value, but if people are expecting a top 100 prospect back for him they may as just be ready to hold him for next year. Right now, Madrigal is a borderline top 100 guy, he'll probably fall off some people's top 100 lists, and if the White Sox were leading the wild card race right now and needed bullpen help I wouldn't even come close to giving up Madrigal to add Colome. He's a solid bullpen pitcher, but there are 3 or 4 solid bullpen pitchers available right now. Somehow calling him anything other than premium, elite, teh bezt, is an insult to him, and so I have to be the one who is insulting our players other than Giolito by saying "Good but not an all star". Why is it so hard to find a "good" bullpen pitcher when you need one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, poppysox said: Why is it so hard to find a "good" bullpen pitcher when you need one? This specific question is also named "The Washington Nationals". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 26 minutes ago, NotHahn said: Agreed keep him unless someone is willing to over pay We need decent arms and some teams have an abundance of outfielders who might look good in right field. We no longer need every deal to be for prospects. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I'd keep him at this point. It's time to start building up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 On 5/31/2019 at 12:20 PM, DH in the NL said: What are realistic expectations for a guy that was traded for Omar Narvaez? It feels like teams would be looking at Colome as a guy they could get for nothing Narvaez has zero to do with Colome's value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 5 hours ago, NotHahn said: Come on now. Even if he does have a sub 2.00 era would you consider him a premium relief pitcher? You already made your mind up about him. When he is a sub 2.00 which is spectacular you are going to say he doesn't strikeout enough batters or that he only throws 97. Just because the guy isn't Champan doesn't mean he still not really good. Not much difference at his era 2.19 than just under 2. You only need to have one team willing to overpay to solve their late inning relief problem. The trades of Sale, Q & Eaton were all overpays because of perceived needs of the various teams we sold to. In the case of Sale and Q the media constantly said the Sox are asking to much. When Rick actually has something to sell he does quite well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I got a push notification for at bat, with the seven top relievers on the market. Colome wasn’t on it. A common thread: all relievers with high k rates and cheap. Colome is going to be on the discount track for teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 23 minutes ago, bmags said: I got a push notification for at bat, with the seven top relievers on the market. Colome wasn’t on it. A common thread: all relievers with high k rates and cheap. Colome is going to be on the discount track for teams. Then they should just keep him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 16 hours ago, Whitesox27 said: Colome for Drew Waters who says no? Yes, before the Braves can change their mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 With Colome it’s pretty simple. If you can get a top 100 to 150 caliber prospect for him then definitely move him. If not, then keep him for another year. No reason to just give him away, but at the same time we should capitalize on him if the market works to our advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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