wrathofhahn Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, Balta1701 said: Virtually no team looking to acquire him is going to care about that number of saves. People have literally said here in this thread that if teams are acquiring him, they;re probably acquiring him for the 7th or 8th innings, and they are going to look at his overall stats. Even if they look at number of saves, they're also going to say that his save number probably is gonna get worse just like the BABIP. They're going to see a guy who is good, but not elite or legendary or premium like people somehow need to imagine on here. A piece that can help them, but comparable to several other options on the market. He has value, but if people are expecting a top 100 prospect back for him they may as just be ready to hold him for next year. Right now, Madrigal is a borderline top 100 guy, he'll probably fall off some people's top 100 lists, and if the White Sox were leading the wild card race right now and needed bullpen help I wouldn't even come close to giving up Madrigal to add Colome. He's a solid bullpen pitcher, but there are 3 or 4 solid bullpen pitchers available right now. Somehow calling him anything other than premium, elite, teh bezt, is an insult to him, and so I have to be the one who is insulting our players other than Giolito by saying "Good but not an all star". I am not as high on him as others but Mayo has him ranked 41st on mlb.com top 100 When Mejia was swapped for Hand he was ranked 26th. Looking at what he has done since maybe the Indians knew something the rest of didn't but I'd like to get at least a 75ish ranked prospect for him. Part of what makes him more valuable then Soria is his stuff. Soria K numbers maybe higher but his fastball just doesn't have the zip it once did. Colome regularly sits 95-97 you can put that kind of stuff at the back end either as a setup guy or closer. And if not just keep him. He has another year. We don't have to move him if some team isn't going to give a good offer Edited June 9, 2019 by wrathofhahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: I am not as high on him as others but Mayo has him ranked 41st on mlb.com top 100 When Mejia was swapped for Hand he was ranked 26th. Looking at what he has done since maybe the Indians knew something the rest of didn't but I'd like to get at least a 75ish ranked prospect for him. Part of what makes him more valuable then Soria is his stuff. Soria K numbers maybe higher but his fastball just doesn't have the zip it once did. Colome regularly sits 95-97 you can put that kind of stuff at the back end either as a setup guy or closer. What do you think about the Braves OF prospect Drew Waters? Currently ranked #61 on MLB’s Top 100. Asking too much? http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Brad hand has an elite k rate and has had it for years. That elite unhittability and consistency is why you give up a Mejia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNamesRod Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 There’s no chance the Sox get a top 100 prospect for Colome imo. He’s like 60th in war for relievers on fangraphs. Why would the braves give up waters for Colome when they could send him for Hand, Giles, Doolittle, Vasquez? If I’m a GM looking for a reliever I’d much rather have those guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, MyNamesRod said: There’s no chance the Sox get a top 100 prospect for Colome imo. He’s like 60th in war for relievers on fangraphs. Why would the braves give up waters for Colome when they could send him for Hand, Giles, Doolittle, Vasquez? If I’m a GM looking for a reliever I’d much rather have those guys I’m not sure WAR is a great way to evaluate relievers. That being said, most teams need relievers come the deadline and there are only so many truly elite options. After those handful of guys, a guy who has proven he can handle high leverage innings becomes pretty valuable. Whether that commands a top 100 prospect or not remains to be seen, but I think there will be plenty of interest in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 37 minutes ago, MyNamesRod said: There’s no chance the Sox get a top 100 prospect for Colome imo. He’s like 60th in war for relievers on fangraphs. Why would the braves give up waters for Colome when they could send him for Hand, Giles, Doolittle, Vasquez? If I’m a GM looking for a reliever I’d much rather have those guys WAR for relievers? lawl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 52 minutes ago, bmags said: Brad hand has an elite k rate and has had it for years. That elite unhittability and consistency is why you give up a Mejia. They also got Cimber in the deal as well, but that could've just been a sweetener. I'd be all for a 2 for 1 package if it netted us a prospect of that caliber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNamesRod Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 3 hours ago, TaylorStSox said: WAR for relievers? lawl 3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: I’m not sure WAR is a great way to evaluate relievers. That being said, most teams need relievers come the deadline and there are only so many truly elite options. After those handful of guys, a guy who has proven he can handle high leverage innings becomes pretty valuable. Whether that commands a top 100 prospect or not remains to be seen, but I think there will be plenty of interest in him. Why isn't it a good stat for relievers? Pitching WAR is based on FIP so is FIP a bad stat? What makes it good for starters and not relievers????? Colome has thrown maybe three less innings than any of the guys I named but they still have twice as much WAR. Its pretty simple, WAR is driven by FIP and FIP is driven by walks, strikeouts, and homeruns per innings pitched. If you just wanna go by FIP instead, he's ranked 62nd. All those numbers say Colome is an above average reliever but nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, MyNamesRod said: Why isn't it a good stat for relievers? Pitching WAR is based on FIP so is FIP a bad stat? What makes it good for starters and not relievers????? Colome has thrown maybe three less innings than any of the guys I named but they still have twice as much WAR. Its pretty simple, WAR is driven by FIP and FIP is driven by walks, strikeouts, and homeruns per innings pitched. If you just wanna go by FIP instead, he's ranked 62nd. All those numbers say Colome is an above average reliever but nothing more. Because WAR is a volume-impacted stat and doesn’t account for high leverage situations. Colome being limited to the ninth (for the most part) isn’t his fault and he shouldn’t be penalized as a result. Also, Colome has outpitched his FIP by nearly half a run over his career. I love FIP but it’s definitely the end-all, be-all. Edited June 9, 2019 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, MyNamesRod said: There’s no chance the Sox get a top 100 prospect for Colome imo. He’s like 60th in war for relievers on fangraphs. Why would the braves give up waters for Colome when they could send him for Hand, Giles, Doolittle, Vasquez? If I’m a GM looking for a reliever I’d much rather have those guys Then we should keep him. He's been very consistent he's probably a better bet then any FA we would sign. I don't think a top 100 is a hard ask. How is Doolittle better? Hand and Giles sure. But both clubs are probably looking for a similar if not better return if they decide to move them. Which they may not as both still have control. When Doolittle was traded the A's got 3 prospects back and dumped Madson. If instead of a top 100 we get a team to give us a Luzardo who is a riser (turned out to be one the better pitching prospects and a solid guy like Neuse. I'd take that too I've been advocating these type of moves for years Edited June 9, 2019 by wrathofhahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Then they should just keep him. They will if someone doesn't pay up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, poppysox said: They will if someone doesn't pay up. At this point, I don't think that anyone from the Sox is getting traded. I just think this is going to be a buyer's market extraordinaire. There's no reason to trade these guys for crap. If there's value, sure. If not, let the team learn how to win. Edited June 9, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: At this point, I don't think that anyone from the Sox is getting traded. I just think this is going to be a buyer's market extraordinaire. There's no reason to trade these guys for crap. If there's value, sure. If not, let the team learn how to win. Works for me. Just anxious to see what they do with Colome & Abreu. I think there is zero chance they trade either without something of quality in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, poppysox said: Works for me. Just anxious to see what they do with Colome & Abreu. I think there is zero chance they trade either without something of quality in return. Abreu makes a ton more sense. We drafted our 1B of the future. He only has a year left. He is a rental. The question is what do teams give up? Right now probably not much he's overpaid for what he is producing still if some team needs a 1B/DH and we eat salary we could get a 10-13 ranked prospect on a teams top 30. Edited June 10, 2019 by wrathofhahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 36 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: Abreu makes a ton more sense. We drafted our 1B of the future. He only has a year left. He is a rental. The question is what do teams give up? Right now probably not much he's overpaid for what he is producing still if some team needs a 1B/DH and we eat salary we could get a 10-13 ranked prospect on a teams top 30. Not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 58 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: Abreu makes a ton more sense. We drafted our 1B of the future. He only has a year left. He is a rental. The question is what do teams give up? Right now probably not much he's overpaid for what he is producing still if some team needs a 1B/DH and we eat salary we could get a 10-13 ranked prospect on a teams top 30. I wonder if Houston would take Abreu and Leury for Seth Beer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 38 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: I wonder if Houston would take Abreu and Leury for Seth Beer Doubtful. That would be a dream trade but obviously too much in our favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Jose Abreu said: I wonder if Houston would take Abreu and Leury for Seth Beer Awful idea. Abreu is a Sox through and through, hopefully until the end of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said: Doubtful. That would be a dream trade but obviously too much in our favor. From a value standpoint, if Beer is actually limited to just DH, I don't know if he's as untradeable as the raw numbers may suggest 12 minutes ago, greg775 said: Awful idea. Abreu is a Sox through and through, hopefully until the end of his career. I don't want us to trade Abreu, if my username doesn't give that away, but the writing is on the wall. Vaughn is going to mash as a 1B and Collins/Burger/FA will probably end up DHing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) Only a crazy person wouldn’t trade Abreu and Leury for Seth Beer. Leave it to Greg to be that person. Regardless, the Astros don’t likely need Abreu. They just called up one of their top prospects, 1B/LF Yordan Alvarez, and he homered in his first game. Edited June 10, 2019 by Moan4Yoan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: Only a crazy person wouldn’t trade Abreu and Leury for Seth Beer. Leave it to Greg to be that person. Regardless, the Astros don’t likely need Abreu. They just called up one of their top prospects, 1B/LF Yordan Alvarez, and he homered in his first game. Teams that could fit. Redsox - Mitch Moreland is hurt Brewers - Aguilar is not getting it done Twins - I'll ask again is CJ Cron for real insterested to see what his stats are before the deadline Rangers - If they want to make a run they need someone better then Guzman Rockies - They need more offense from the position especially at coors Astros - Guirriel has been awful. Alvarez is DH'ing. They are pretty exposed at both DH and 1B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 11 hours ago, wrathofhahn said: Abreu makes a ton more sense. We drafted our 1B of the future. He only has a year left. He is a rental. The question is what do teams give up? Right now probably not much he's overpaid for what he is producing still if some team needs a 1B/DH and we eat salary we could get a 10-13 ranked prospect on a teams top 30. Abreu goes nowhere if that's the payoff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 20 hours ago, bmags said: Brad hand has an elite k rate and has had it for years. That elite unhittability and consistency is why you give up a Mejia. Not really. He had been good for 2 years prior to the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Not really. He had been good for 2 years prior to the trade. 2.5 years up to the deadline, maintaining his k rate above 30% and up to 34% at time of trade. That reduces the reliever risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, bmags said: 2.5 years up to the deadline, maintaining his k rate above 30% and up to 34% at time of trade. That reduces the reliever risk. I think you could make a very valid argument that they are worth about the same. I think hand had more control, and hes lefty, so I'd give him the slight edge but it's not much. Colome and Hand are both good to +good but not elite relievers. There really arent very many elite of the elite guys though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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