Colome remains with White Sox, who always had ample interest in him

[TheFutureIsNear]

I’d trade Colome no problem...he’s just not a dominant “must keep” type of reliever. I’d trade him very soon before the regression that definitely due comes. I know he’s been solid throughout most of his career, but there is very little to feel confident about in his advanced stats. 

[BamaDoc]

43 minutes ago, bmags said:

the, uh, dead guy?

No Antoni Flores 18 yo SS.  Their current #6 prospect.  Weird they did sign two Flores that year and sadly one did pass away.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

26 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

I’d trade Colome no problem...he’s just not a dominant “must keep” type of reliever. I’d trade him very soon before the regression that definitely due comes. I know he’s been solid throughout most of his career, but there is very little to feel confident about in his advanced stats. 

Some guys outperform their advanced stats. Regression never came for Mariano Rivera. His career ERA was 0.55 less than his FIP and 0.78 less than his xFIP. Colome’s career trends are comparable. So even if Colome’s ERA increases a run to the low 3’s, he’s still a better option at closer than most guys (has a career save percentage of 90% = proven/reliable). He’s proven to be reliable whereas guys like Luke Jackson are anything but.

Edited June 17, 2019 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

43 minutes ago, bmags said:

Wait, so if this is the type of return you are talking about for colome I definitely think he can return players like that, but honestly I do not like hernandez.

I’m thinking the return is a 50/55 grade prospect and another 40/45 grade prospect. I’d do it if the 50/55 prospect had high upside like Hernandez.

[bmags]

10 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

No Antoni Flores 18 yo SS.  Their current #6 prospect.  Weird they did sign two Flores that year and sadly one did pass away.

oh I see. Yes I also like Gilberto Jimenez.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

57 minutes ago, bmags said:

the, uh, dead guy?

Cross him off then.

[TheFutureIsNear]

49 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Some guys outperform their advanced stats. Regression never came for Mariano Rivera. His career ERA was 0.55 less than his FIP and 0.78 less than his xFIP. Colome’s career trends are comparable. So even if Colome’s ERA increases a run to the low 3’s, he’s still a better option at closer than most guys (has a career save percentage of 90% = proven/reliable). He’s proven to be reliable whereas guys like Luke Jackson are anything but.

Exception does not equal the rule...you’re casually mentioning the greatest of all time and Alex Colome in the same sentence. That should ring off a “one of these things is not like the other” alarm in your head. 

And for Colome it goes beyond FIP...his BABIP is .117 compared to a career .279. His gb% has dropped and his flyball and hr rate has increased (big red flag as the weather heats up in Chicago). And overall batters are barreling up the ball and making hard contact at an alarming rate. All of those factors are the problem, not just 1. 

Not saying Colome is trash and we should get rid of him for nothing, but to act like he’s an important piece for the future that isnt pretty easy to replace is an equally delusional take 

[poppysox]

5 hours ago, raBBit said:

If that's the case, well see both Robert and Madrigal by May next year. 

At the latest...I would hope.

[poppysox]

9 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

Okay, I haven't posted in a while on this thread and it's back to being silly again. So here goes again: 

Hey guys, you win with good players. You don't win with bad players or players in the minors, once again who might or might not make the majors. Why do you guys keep wanting to get rid of the White Sox's best players. Keep Colome, Keep Bummer, Keep Abreu. That's how you win: with good players, not minor leaguers. 

I forget which game it was this weekend, but when Tommy Kahnle came in with his 2.77 ERA, I thought to myself, "Huh, it should would be nice to have had him for the past TWO YEARS and this year instead of Blake Rutherford STILL down in AA with his .230 batting average. 

You win with good players, and I like the White Sox when they win. Quit trying to trade all our good players so the Sox can win. You guys drive me crazy!!!!

Once you tell me we will compete next year I'm with you all the way.  Bring up Robert, Madrigal and Cease.  Keep Abreu and Colome.  Get us two quality starters and a  right fielder in free agency or trade.  Good to go.  Might be frustrating as the new guys get their major league footing but I don't care.  Entertaining!

Edited June 18, 2019 by poppysox

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 hour ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Exception does not equal the rule...you’re casually mentioning the greatest of all time and Alex Colome in the same sentence. That should ring off a “one of these things is not like the other” alarm in your head. 

And for Colome it goes beyond FIP...his BABIP is .117 compared to a career .279. His gb% has dropped and his flyball and hr rate has increased (big red flag as the weather heats up in Chicago). And overall batters are barreling up the ball and making hard contact at an alarming rate. All of those factors are the problem, not just 1. 

Not saying Colome is trash and we should get rid of him for nothing, but to act like he’s an important piece for the future that isnt pretty easy to replace is an equally delusional take 

Who replaces him at closer for the rest of this season and next if they trade him? I’ve heard several people now say he’s easy to replace, so who would the Sox replace him with?

[vilehoopster]

3 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’m thinking the return is a 50/55 grade prospect and another 40/45 grade prospect. I’d do it if the 50/55 prospect had high upside like Hernandez.

Oh, you mean a guy like Blake Rutherford, right? You know, Blake with his .230 batting average down in AA after having him for two years, let's trade him for a guy like that. 

 

[TheFutureIsNear]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Who replaces him at closer for the rest of this season and next if they trade him? I’ve heard several people now say he’s easy to replace, so who would the Sox replace him with?

Lol “crap he brought valid points, let’s move on to another argument”

 

To answer your question: I honestly don’t really care who the closer the rest of this year would be. If I’m Rick Hahn I’m not making decisions that impact the future of the team because I have delusions of chasing the 2nd wild card. If someone is willing to give you something of value for Colome you should take it. 2nd tiers closers are a dime a dozen as far as I’m concerned. With that said, I won’t be the least bit surprised if Colome stays a White Sox. 1. Because I have 0 faith in our front office. 2. Because, as others have already said, I don’t think a single other team out there is trading for Alex Colome thinking they just fixed their bullpen. I don’t see real value coming back. 

 

As for next year, the possibilities are endless. Closers pop up all the time (ie:2005). Hell, look at our own division. If going into 2017 I told you that Shane Green and Brad Hand were going to be legit closers you would have called me crazy.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, vilehoopster said:

Oh, you mean a guy like Blake Rutherford, right? You know, Blake with his .230 batting average down in AA after having him for two years, let's trade him for a guy like that. 

 

Never really thought of Rutherford as a high upside player. I’d want a high upside arm that is close to the majors if they’re going to trade Colome.

[greg775]

23 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Jones sucked when they tried him as their closer. Matt Thornton was another guy. Dominant setup man that sucked hard whenever they’d try him as closer.

Some on this board never gave up on Jones. I never wish injuries on anybody but with him you could see how he'll get hurt over and over. His pitching mechanics should have been fixed long ago. Some of the worst motion I've ever seen.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Lol “crap he brought valid points, let’s move on to another argument”

 

To answer your question: I honestly don’t really care who the closer the rest of this year would be. If I’m Rick Hahn I’m not making decisions that impact the future of the team because I have delusions of chasing the 2nd wild card. If someone is willing to give you something of value for Colome you should take it. 2nd tiers closers are a dime a dozen as far as I’m concerned. With that said, I won’t be the least bit surprised if Colome stays a White Sox. 1. Because I have 0 faith in our front office. 2. Because, as others have already said, I don’t think a single other team out there is trading for Alex Colome thinking they just fixed their bullpen. I don’t see real value coming back. 

 

As for next year, the possibilities are endless. Closers pop up all the time (ie:2005). Hell, look at our own division. If going into 2017 I told you that Shane Green and Brad Hand were going to be legit closers you would have called me crazy.

Colome’s advanced stats over the course of his career are very good but his ERA and save percentage are even better. He hasn’t been quite as sharp recently but overall this season he’s looked great. I’m not concerned about advanced metrics over a 27 inning sample size when the guy is 14/14 in save opps and has the track record he does.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Who replaces him at closer for the rest of this season and next if they trade him? I’ve heard several people now say he’s easy to replace, so who would the Sox replace him with?

The folks who I call the "trade people" or the "trade lovers" don't give a flip about the closer the rest of the season. If it helps us lose batches of games to get a better draft pick, they are all for it. Why? Cause they feel we don't have a team worthy of winning it all without sweating. They wanna keep acquiring prospects til on paper we have a team expected to win 100 to 105 games and roll through the playoffs. Meanwhile I care deeply about your questions about who will close this year and next if we dump Colome for some top 100 prospect who will never make the bigs.

[greg775]

9 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Never really thought of Rutherford as a high upside player. I’d want a high upside arm that is close to the majors if they’re going to trade Colome.

Cool that you never thought of him as high upside. Much of this board did, doing backflips when we acquired Rutherford who should never be confused with (Babe) Ruth.

[vilehoopster]

10 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Lol “crap he brought valid points, let’s move on to another argument”

 

To answer your question: I honestly don’t really care who the closer the rest of this year would be. If I’m Rick Hahn I’m not making decisions that impact the future of the team because I have delusions of chasing the 2nd wild card. If someone is willing to give you something of value for Colome you should take it. 2nd tiers closers are a dime a dozen as far as I’m concerned. With that said, I won’t be the least bit surprised if Colome stays a White Sox. 1. Because I have 0 faith in our front office. 2. Because, as others have already said, I don’t think a single other team out there is trading for Alex Colome thinking they just fixed their bullpen. I don’t see real value coming back. 

 

As for next year, the possibilities are endless. Closers pop up all the time (ie:2005). Hell, look at our own division. If going into 2017 I told you that Shane Green and Brad Hand were going to be legit closers you would have called me crazy.

This is the "wins and losses don't matter this year" mentality. You now what: They matter. I was at the game Sunday; attendance was over 37,000. So all those people were excited about the Sox only to be down 7 to 1 after four innings. I don't think too many of us were happy. There were a buttload of us waking out after the 7th inning because we bought tickets to see the White Sox win. I keep saying this over and over: I like it when the White Sox win and I get pissed off when they lose. 

Also, to call a guy who is 14 for 14 in saves this year with a save percentage of 90% as "2nd tier" and "a dime a dozen" is just silly. You know that's not true. You're just saying that to advance your argument, your weak argument. 

[oldsox]

14 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Cool that you never thought of him as high upside. Much of this board did, doing backflips when we acquired Rutherford who should never be confused with (Babe) Ruth.

Boy, the Yanks were sure quick to pull the trigger on Rutherford.  Unlike most other orgs.

[greg775]

44 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

This is the "wins and losses don't matter this year" mentality. You now what: They matter. I was at the game Sunday; attendance was over 37,000. So all those people were excited about the Sox only to be down 7 to 1 after four innings. I don't think too many of us were happy. There were a buttload of us waking out after the 7th inning because we bought tickets to see the White Sox win. I keep saying this over and over: I like it when the White Sox win and I get pissed off when they lose. 

Also, to call a guy who is 14 for 14 in saves this year with a save percentage of 90% as "2nd tier" and "a dime a dozen" is just silly. You know that's not true. You're just saying that to advance your argument, your weak argument. 

I love you Vile. Keep posting. Remember I approve of your posts so much. I've said this for years, how deflating it would be to be a person to finally go to a Sox game and have it be 9-0 in the third inning. Many of us want our team to win no matter what. Personally if we had 45 wins going into September I'd still want to win every single game. I despise the draft.

Edited June 18, 2019 by greg775

[WBWSF]

32 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Cool that you never thought of him as high upside. Much of this board did, doing backflips when we acquired Rutherford who should never be confused with (Babe) Ruth.

Trading David Robertson for Blake Rutherford  was simply a salary dump. It has to rank as one of the worse trades Hahn has made.

[Lip Man 1]

1 minute ago, WBWSF said:

Trading David Robertson for Blake Rutherford  was simply a salary dump. It has to rank as one of the worse trades Hahn has made.

Why? Was the team going anywhere with him? When his deal was up he was out the door so you get anything you can for him.

[greg775]

11 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Why? Was the team going anywhere with him? When his deal was up he was out the door so you get anything you can for him.

Find the old thread. Peeps penciled in Rutherford as a future RF star. And even were pumped about Tito Polo. Some people loved Rutherford as a prospect.

Edited June 18, 2019 by greg775

[TheFutureIsNear]

37 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

This is the "wins and losses don't matter this year" mentality. You now what: They matter. I was at the game Sunday; attendance was over 37,000. So all those people were excited about the Sox only to be down 7 to 1 after four innings. I don't think too many of us were happy. There were a buttload of us waking out after the 7th inning because we bought tickets to see the White Sox win. I keep saying this over and over: I like it when the White Sox win and I get pissed off when they lose. 

Also, to call a guy who is 14 for 14 in saves this year with a save percentage of 90% as "2nd tier" and "a dime a dozen" is just silly. You know that's not true. You're just saying that to advance your argument, your weak argument. 

Hate to break it you, but I don’t give a damn about your personal interests. There’s a bigger picture than a 2nd tier closer on an at best .500 team. And if you can’t understand that Alex Colome is 2nd tier you are either a giant homer or just don’t understand what you are discussing. 

[vilehoopster]

4 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Why? Was the team going anywhere with him? When his deal was up he was out the door so you get anything you can for him.

So the Sox get a few or couple more wins THAT YEAR!! That's two or three more times White Sox fans are happy and a few less times they're not depressed. I don't understand how you people who argue to flip our quality veterans act like wins never really matter. They matter. Winning is fun; losing sucks. You "flip" guys all get hard ons because some prospect is kicking ass in High A while the major league team is losing 100 games.