steveno89 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 hour ago, TomPickle said: They also included Adam Cimber in that trade. That would be the equivalent of trading Colome and Bummer in a deal together. The bullpen would be as bad as the rotation if those two guys were both dealt. Though it may be worth it if they were to get a Sean Murphy or Drew Waters or someone on that level. I highly doubt we would get a prospect of Waters' caliber, but you never know since the Braves are in contention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 hour ago, TomPickle said: They also included Adam Cimber in that trade. That would be the equivalent of trading Colome and Bummer in a deal together. The bullpen would be as bad as the rotation if those two guys were both dealt. Though it may be worth it if they were to get a Sean Murphy or Drew Waters or someone on that level. Bummer>>>>>>Cimber. Cimber is a sidewinding RHP that throws 88 mph. Bummer is a flamethrowing LHP that throws 98. Not even close in terms of value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: Bummer>>>>>>Cimber. Cimber is a sidewinding RHP that throws 88 mph. Bummer is a flamethrowing LHP that throws 98. Not even close in terms of value. Hand had a lot more value than Colome so I'd say those packages would be pretty comparable. Edited July 1, 2019 by TomPickle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 15 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said: Give me an overpay of a young talented RF prospect then. They can fill the OF. The Sox need starting pitching...badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, steveno89 said: I highly doubt we would get a prospect of Waters' caliber, but you never know since the Braves are in contention They also have a stacked OF and have Pache in front of Waters in the minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 15 hours ago, justBLAZE said: FWIW Hahn in a Fegan interview on athletic said expect a quiet deadline. Longterm moves only but hard to deal if all our prospects are injured. If they are making long term moves, then they are trading for prospects or younger players. What effect would injured prospects have. They know they need pitching regardless. Hahn cannot sit on his hands through another July deadline market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, GreenSox said: If they are making long term moves, then they are trading for prospects or younger players. What effect would injured prospects have. They know they need pitching regardless. Hahn cannot sit on his hands through another July deadline market. He's trying to add players with team control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, GreenSox said: If they are making long term moves, then they are trading for prospects or younger players. What effect would injured prospects have. They know they need pitching regardless. Hahn cannot sit on his hands through another July deadline market. This is one year where I don't see there being huge pressure to get off one's hands in the trade deadline. The Sox don't have a lot of things they must absolutely trade, which means that they only will be making moves if the market comes to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: This is one year where I don't see there being huge pressure to get off one's hands in the trade deadline. The Sox don't have a lot of things they must absolutely trade, which means that they only will be making moves if the market comes to them. Yup, I'm holding unless someone blows the doors off, and poking around for ML ready controllable talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: This is one year where I don't see there being huge pressure to get off one's hands in the trade deadline. The Sox don't have a lot of things they must absolutely trade, which means that they only will be making moves if the market comes to them. Well they have a major void in starting pitching. They have an expiring Abreu and a peak value Colome and interesting utility player in Leury, also at peak value. Maybe nothing will come of it, but they need to work the market seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 29 minutes ago, GreenSox said: They can fill the OF. The Sox need starting pitching...badly. I don’t think you will get a pitching prospect of much value for Colome, unless it is some low A guy. I think an OF prospect could be attainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Well they have a major void in starting pitching. They have an expiring Abreu and a peak value Colome and interesting utility player in Leury, also at peak value. Maybe nothing will come of it, but they need to work the market seriously. They should certainly try, but there's no pressure to do this one. If no one brings a surprising offer for Abreu then even though he's expiring there's limited pressure to move him, he'll almost certainly be back at least for one more year, and there remains some benefit to having him around when Robert arrives (and when the new Cuban they just signed comes to ST next year). Colome may be at peak value, but he's not a free agent and he's potentially quite useful to us next year. If they trade him, then relief pitching becomes a void they have to fill, so it has to be worth it. Leury, sure if someone wants to offer something I'm listening, but utility guys don't bring huge returns even when they're doing well, and he's under team control in 2020 and 2021 when this team could use him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Well they have a major void in starting pitching. They have an expiring Abreu and a peak value Colome and interesting utility player in Leury, also at peak value. Maybe nothing will come of it, but they need to work the market seriously. You're likely getting nothing useful from a starting pitching standpoint with any of those guys. If you can great, but don't count on it. And don't chalk up not turning those guys into starting pitching as a failure of the FO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: They should certainly try, but there's no pressure to do this one. If no one brings a surprising offer for Abreu then even though he's expiring there's limited pressure to move him, he'll almost certainly be back at least for one more year, and there remains some benefit to having him around when Robert arrives (and when the new Cuban they just signed comes to ST next year). Colome may be at peak value, but he's not a free agent and he's potentially quite useful to us next year. If they trade him, then relief pitching becomes a void they have to fill, so it has to be worth it. Leury, sure if someone wants to offer something I'm listening, but utility guys don't bring huge returns even when they're doing well, and he's under team control in 2020 and 2021 when this team could use him. I think Leury's a free agent in 2021, so it's one more year after this. No doubt losing Colome creates a major void. But they have a major void as it is, as in the entire back half of the pen (perhaps even 2/3 of the pen) and 3 or 4 spots in the rotation. Yea they could give Abreu a QO, but he's worth about 1/2 that and that would be the same FA approach they've been taking - overpay 2nd and 3rd tier guys because they have to spend the money on somebody. I'm not convinced of his great leadership and there's a new generation that can fill the void anyway. When you boil it down, the Sox long term core is really Anderson, Moncada, Eloy and Giolito. That's 4, the same as it was in 2014-2016 with Sale, Q, Eaton and I guess you can throw Avi in there. And there is a big void in pitching; you can get by with below replacement in an OF position or 2B, but not in the rotation. Edited July 1, 2019 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, GreenSox said: I think Leury's a free agent in 2021, so it's one more year after this. No doubt losing Colome creates a major void. But they have a major void as it is, as in the entire back half of the pen (perhaps even 2/3 of the pen) and 3 or 4 spots in the rotation. Yea they could give Abreu a QO, but he's worth about 1/2 that and that would be the same FA approach they've been taking - overpay 2nd and 3rd tier guys because they have to spend the money on somebody. I'm not convinced of his great leadership and there's a new generation that can fill the void anyway. When you boil it down, the Sox long term core is really Anderson, Moncada, Eloy and Giolito. That's 4, the same as it was in 2014-2016 with Sale, Q, Eaton and I guess you can throw Avi in there. And there is a big void in pitching; you can get by with below replacement in an OF position or 2B, but not in the rotation. They have 5 more top 50 prospects, including one Top 5 prospect. They might not all hit, but the core isn't just 4 people. Saying it is is being disingenuous. Edited July 1, 2019 by mqr 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 I think you trade Colome to the top bidder. See if you can get anything for Leury, Abreu, Yolmer. And at least listen on McCann and take it if it's some fleece show. I am sure we could get a decent return with some combination of these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said: They also have a stacked OF and have Pache in front of Waters in the minors. I just scoured all of the current contenders' farm systems and it's not really easy to find a trade fit at first glance. Cubs don't have the farm to get it done realistically Tampa does have the farm, but they are so penny pinching I wonder if they would want to take on Colome's contract? Plus they already had and traded him in the past. Minnesota - Division rival, tough to get a deal done with when the Sox will likely try to start competing in 2020 Yankees - Thin farm system, I don't really see a prospect fit for the Sox here. Texas - Thin farm, unexpected contention. I don't think they are a great fit. Houston - Whitley/Tucker/Alvarez aren't going anywhere, and surprisingly their farm is not as deep as it has been in recent years. Milwaukee - Possibly, but I don't love the prospects at the top of their system. Kiura isn't being dealt and their depth drops off substantially from there. Philedelphia - rebuilding and I doubt they feel close enough to make a costly trade. Ditto for Washington, Colorado, San Diego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 10 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: I think you trade Colome to the top bidder. See if you can get anything for Leury, Abreu, Yolmer. And at least listen on McCann and take it if it's some fleece show. I am sure we could get a decent return with some combination of these guys. Can't see the Sox moving McCann at this point since we really do not have much in the way of options outside of him within the organization beyond him. He has played well enough to consider extending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 6 hours ago, steveno89 said: There is a saying that goes "always be trading relievers" and I absolutely think the Sox should listen to what they can get for Colome in a trade. Listen...yes. Never hurts to listen. Only a gross overpay should be listened to for very long however IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 17 minutes ago, poppysox said: Listen...yes. Never hurts to listen. Only a gross overpay should be listened to for very long however IMO. I don't think Colome commands a gross overpay. I do still think we grab a top 50-60 prospect though, although many on this board feel that is not realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 41 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: I don't think Colome commands a gross overpay. I do still think we grab a top 50-60 prospect though, although many on this board feel that is not realistic. A top 50 to 60 prospect would be a gross overpay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: A top 50 to 60 prospect would be a gross overpay. Rutherford was in the high 30's low 40's at the time of the trade. There are several instances of that kind of return across MLB at the deadline. He has been one of the most consistent CP in baseball and has an additional year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: Rutherford was in the high 30's low 40's at the time of the trade. There are several instances of that kind of return across MLB at the deadline. He has been one of the most consistent CP in baseball and has an additional year. His stock had already started to fall (was probably moreso in the 60 to 80 range) and we gave up a controllable, young reliever with elite stuff plus a proven closer and 3B stopgap. Colome commanding a legit top 50 prospect would be a gross overpay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: His stock had already started to fall (was probably moreso in the 60 to 80 range) and we gave up a controllable, young reliever with elite stuff plus a proven closer and 3B stopgap. Colome commanding a legit top 50 prospect would be a gross overpay. I respectfully, disagree. I think a guy like Drew Waters from ATL would make a lot of sense for both teams. Crowded OF and already a guy ahead of him in the minors. He's in the 60's. We will see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: I respectfully, disagree. I think a guy like Drew Waters from ATL would make a lot of sense for both teams. Crowded OF and already a guy ahead of him in the minors. He's in the 60's. We will see what happens. Maybe it happens, but my point is it would be a gross overpay on the Braves’ part. Your initial post made it sound like a gross overpay would only be a top 30 prospect which is what I disagree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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