Sox post round 1 change of strategy?

[Dominikk85]

Vaughn of course was a pretty conservative pick but I feel after him they went a lot more risk. No more "college high performer" with high floor low ceiling.

 

2. Mathew Thompson HS pitcher

3. Andrew dahlquist HS pitcher

4.James beard HS centerfielder 

5 to 7 then are college pitchers

I like what they did 2 to 5. No more "can't play a position but walked a ton in college" guys but HS guys who have high bust potential but also upside. The sox at this point don't need minor league depth but can gamble a bit on getting another star.

Also like they went pitching heavy. Pitching was once the strength of the system but injuries have cut into that a lot and the last 2 years actually hitters have been the star of the system at least after kopech got hurt. They couldn't pick a pitcher at 3 this year because no one had enough talent to be picked there (no Mize this year) but after that they really went on pitching after going very heavy on hitters the last years (kinda like the cubs 2012-16) because they system needed some refill after all the injuries.

[Springfield Soxfan]

Totally impressed by this year's draft strategy.  Now, let's see how it plays out, but use the slot money to get 4 players with premium talent is exciting to see.   

[bmags]

The worst parts about previous draft strategy in my opinion were the:

- Use of 2nd rounders on college hitters they kept saying were "tremendous value" (sheets, walker) and for some reason needing to pay them overslot (will never get that)

- So much draft capital on college relievers.

The result was, one, missing out on a lot of prep talent with the 2nd round picks, especially missing out on a very deep high school pitching crop last year.

This year featured some relievers 4-10, but they were to save money.

The pitching beyond Cease lacks stuff. We have a lot of recent picks on college pitchers with "starter traits" that throw 88-91 (mcclure, henzman, pilkington)

Getting prep arms that throw easy mid 90s but need development is incredibly important for system (see Hahns original "waves of talent", ours has a huge cliff)

When they had gone high school, they went so late, with so much money committed, they were getting complete projects.

Beard offers the chance at a player with elite tool along with some hitting ability, albeit with major risk on competition. The perfect 4th round pick, a guy who flashed, but didn't have the perfect opportunities due to geography or other circumstances.

The process is right, though, we'll see if it pans out. Baseball gonna baseball. Had we done this similarly since 2016 I think we'd have a few more top prospects, however.

[Dominikk85]

I agree you need stuff guys in these days. A lot of them will not throw enough strikes to start but those pitchabilty guys who "keep it on the ground and don't walk guys" but don't have great stuff don't work anymore against the high powered launch angle guys.

The twins did the same mistake during most of the 2010s (get pitch to contact guys) and it didn't work and now with their new front office they switched to high spin high heat guys who give up a few  more homers but also get more Ks and pop ups.

I also read the cubs made the same mistake going for high floor strike throwers and it didn't work (they probably were trying to find the next kyle hendricks but this works rarely) and now also go the stuff route.

The time of pitch to contact sinkerballers is mostly over even though there are still some guys who make it work.

Edited June 5, 2019 by [email protected]

[bmags]

For the record I was really pleased with the 2017 draft (emphasis on college hitters with good k:bb while flashing power) after round 10, so I don’t totally trust myself here.

[bmags]

51 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

I agree you need stuff guys in these days. A lot of them will not throw enough strikes to start but those pitchabilty guys who "keep it on the ground and don't walk guys" but don't have great stuff don't work anymore against the high powered launch angle guys.

The twins did the same mistake during most of the 2010s (get pitch to contact guys) and it didn't work and now with their new front office they switched to high spin high heat guys who give up a few  more homers but also get more Ks and pop ups.

I also read the cubs made the same mistake going for high floor strike throwers and it didn't work (they probably were trying to find the next kyle hendricks but this works rarely) and now also go the stuff route.

The time of pitch to contact sinkerballers is mostly over even though there are still some guys who make it work.

It’s weird but after laws chat yesterday praising Sox for essentially turning Adolfo into more of a hitter it made me wonder about your second to last paragraph.

Maybe Sox player dev is actually it’s best refining top tools and stuff versus maxing out polish guys.

Looking at rebuild, people may not want to give so much credit around but the org has seen best results with pitchers like Kopech and Cease, and hitters like Anderson, Robert, Moncada, Adolfo, and Jimenez.

Meanwhile polish guys, only Dunning has really excelled. Even with Luis Gonzalez, while the book isn’t close to finished, seems to hit this wall where when they aren’t older and more experienced they don’t have the next gear. Certainly sheets and that group of Call, Fisher, while unlikely as 3rd/4th round picks to be productive , still cannot really be anything beyond A+.

But even with tools you can get on these runs like we see with the Rangers where none of them are clicking and it’s the same disaster. 

 

Edit: I really don’t know how to classify Gio.

[steveno89]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

It’s weird but after laws chat yesterday praising Sox for essentially turning Adolfo into more of a hitter it made me wonder about your second to last paragraph.

Maybe Sox player dev is actually it’s best refining top tools and stuff versus maxing out polish guys.

Looking at rebuild, people may not want to give so much credit around but the org has seen best results with pitchers like Kopech and Cease, and hitters like Anderson, Robert, Moncada, Adolfo, and Jimenez.

Meanwhile polish guys, only Dunning has really excelled. Even with Luis Gonzalez, while the book isn’t close to finished, seems to hit this wall where when they aren’t older and more experienced they don’t have the next gear. Certainly sheets and that group of Call, Fisher, while unlikely as 3rd/4th round picks to be productive , still cannot really be anything beyond A+.

But even with tools you can get on these runs like we see with the Rangers where none of them are clicking and it’s the same disaster. 

 

Edit: I really don’t know how to classify Gio.

Giolito is an example to keeping faith with a guy, and letting him find himself over time. Really goes to show that players can turn things around and not to give up too soon, 

[Buehrle>Wood]

If they dont go high end overslot talent at the start of today's draft I think the strategy is kind of dumb. But theyve already announced theyd do that soooo

[ChiSoxJon]

Wouldn't get too use to it, NH referred to this strategy as "most odd" of his 20 classes

Definitely infused some youth to help sustain a good farm

[Donaldo]

Not a huge fan of all these high school arms... too risky for my liking.  JMHO

[ChiSoxJon]

2 hours ago, Donaldo said:

Not a huge fan of all these high school arms... too risky for my liking.  JMHO

New for CWS fans for sure...hopefully sustains a successful farm system for the long term as HS pitchers are 4-5 years away anyways

[bmags]

14 hours ago, Donaldo said:

Not a huge fan of all these high school arms... too risky for my liking.  JMHO

2 out of 40 seems reasonable.

[Dominikk85]

14 hours ago, Donaldo said:

Not a huge fan of all these high school arms... too risky for my liking.  JMHO

Weil they have already quite some depth and took a quite "safe" guy with Vaughn so maybe gambling on some upside isn't the worst think

[Y2Jimmy0]

After Clinton talking to Nick and the podcast with Garfein I think we've learned some things. They came into the process wanting to select more high schoolers in general to "balance out the system" a bit. Taking the best player in Vaughn at 3 and then following it up with Matthew Thompson was absolutely the predetermined plan. Then Andrew Dalquist fell and they re-evaluated. They found out what it would take to sign Dalquist and they decided to go this route. This also entailed them staying up most of the night and identifying which college seniors to fill out day 2 with. Dalquist and Beard were part of that "on the fly" changing of strategy. Hostetler told us that he didn't see the value in college pitching in rounds 5-7 like he had previously (Flores, McClure, Lambert, etc) so they decided to go high end preps at the top and save later. 

It's different than what we're used to but it makes sense. I'm pretty sure they'll get Gladney and Glass locked up and the 11th and 12 rounders will definitely sign. That's a nice little infusion of prep talent. 

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

After Clinton talking to Nick and the podcast with Garfein I think we've learned some things. They came into the process wanting to select more high schoolers in general to "balance out the system" a bit. Taking the best player in Vaughn at 3 and then following it up with Matthew Thompson was absolutely the predetermined plan. Then Andrew Dalquist fell and they re-evaluated. They found out what it would take to sign Dalquist and they decided to go this route. This also entailed them staying up most of the night and identifying which college seniors to fill out day 2 with. Dalquist and Beard were part of that "on the fly" changing of strategy. Hostetler told us that he didn't see the value in college pitching in rounds 5-7 like he had previously (Flores, McClure, Lambert, etc) so they decided to go high end preps at the top and save later. 

It's different than what we're used to but it makes sense. I'm pretty sure they'll get Gladney and Glass locked up and the 11th and 12 rounders will definitely sign. That's a nice little infusion of prep talent. 

Good stuff...few other observations. I don’t think they were set on Vaughn until draft day. Sounds like they were trying to cut deals with probably Abrams in order to see if they liked that path more than Vaughn.  Also, we know Gladney and Hinds were at their workout.

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Good stuff...few other observations. I don’t think they were set on Vaughn until draft day. Sounds like they were trying to cut deals with probably Abrams in order to see if they liked that path more than Vaughn.  Also, we know Gladney and Hinds were at their workout.

I think they absolutely thought that Vaughn was the 3rd best player. You're probably correct though that they really liked Adams but not for $7 million. 

[fathom]

3 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I think they absolutely thought that Vaughn was the 3rd best player. You're probably correct though that they really liked Adams but not for $7 million. 

Agreed Vaughn was 3rd on their board, no doubt. I do wonder if they were trying to get Abrams and Allan

[Chicago White Sox]

I’ve been on suspension until today, but I got to say I love this year’s approach to the draft.  Upon further consideration, Vaughn was the right pick for the spot.  He’ll move fast and quickly provide us with a middle of the order bat to pair with Jimenez. 

After that, I love grabbing a pair of athletic, projectable HS arms plus a HS outfielder with elite / plus, plus speed.  Sounds we’ll also land another four or five interesting HS kids on top of that to boot.

I absolutely love the infusion of youth & athleticism into the system, but the question quickly becomes where we will play all these kids?  There’s going to be some logjams on the positional side.  Here’s what we’re potentially looking at Great Falls & Arizona this year:

• Outfield: Connell, Weaver, Comas, Mieses, Coronado, Guerrero, Beard, Acosta, Glass
• Infield: Quinteiro, Delgado, Maldonado, Gladney, Pimentel, Diaz, Ramos, Sanchez*
• 1B/DH: Reyes, Abbott, Mendoza
• Catcher:  Ortiz, Torres

The outfield & infields are going to be packed and I’m sure I’m missing some guys.  Really wish we had another short-season team, but regardless it’s going to be fun seeing who breaks out of this group.  Really need Getz & staff to step up and play their part now.