Nick Madrigal promoted to Birmingham

[Sox Fan In Husker Land]

26 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Hopefully he roids up and becomes Altuve 2.0

I was thinking realistically he could be more along the lines of Dustin Pedroia's 2007, 2013, & 2014 seasons with better base running and fewer K's. Pedroia was a 3.7, 4.9, and 3.8 fWAR player those seasons while never hitting more than 9 HRs in a season, with an ISO between .098 and .125, a BB rate between 8.1 and 10.1%, and a BABIP between .307 and .333. 

 

[SonofaRoache]

On 6/14/2019 at 9:06 AM, Perfect Vision said:

If both Madrigal and Robert hit their ceilings, the Sox are going to win multiple championships and it won't much matter how the lineup is set.

Look at the other top lineups in baseball. These offenses are loaded and we are simply catching up. We can pass teams by spending on pitching and bench players. 

[hi8is]

Bold prediction... Madrigal will have over 82 doubles in his second full year of playing time with the Chicago White Sox.

Not 81... not 82... over 82!

[RTC]

15 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

Look at the other top lineups in baseball. These offenses are loaded and we are simply catching up. We can pass teams by spending on pitching and bench players. 

This.  Sox fans have gotten so used to crappy lineups they've forgotten what a modern WS contending one looks like and how many teams actually have one.  I've always thought its a bit of the same at 3B.  "Wow (random player) is really solid.  We may have our 3B of the future."  No, it's just that Wilson Betemit and Jeff Keppinger can make my mom look like Adrian Beltre. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by RTC

[bmags]

So another reason for optimism on Madrigal offensively is Kevin Newman. He was a name mentioned in the Q to Pitt original deals. He had high contact rates but low power. His power really become an issue last year before turning around, and now is looking at a 3 WAR season despite being less of a defensive ace as Madrigal (though has SS adjustment).  High contact rates I really think have the ability to increase power production through better selectivity. 

Newman also only has a 6.5% BB rate, which is in line with what he did in the minors. Madrigal recently has improved to nearly 8%. Newmans k rate was 7%, while Madrigals is 2%. 

So main point is you have some comparison points for a recent highly rated contact hitter. Though I'm sure that doesn't excite everyone too much. 

[turnin' two]

On 6/30/2019 at 12:30 PM, ron883 said:

Hopefully he roids up and becomes Altuve 2.0

As long as he doesn't chew tobacco.

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

As long as he doesn't chew tobacco.

do we really have to chase ron all over for this?

[turnin' two]

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

do we really have to chase ron all over for this?

You don't find advocating for steroids for one guy and demonizing another for chew to be odd?  But I get it, I'm done.

[chitownsportsfan]

49 minutes ago, bmags said:

So another reason for optimism on Madrigal offensively is Kevin Newman. He was a name mentioned in the Q to Pitt original deals. He had high contact rates but low power. His power really become an issue last year before turning around, and now is looking at a 3 WAR season despite being less of a defensive ace as Madrigal (though has SS adjustment).  High contact rates I really think have the ability to increase power production through better selectivity. 

Newman also only has a 6.5% BB rate, which is in line with what he did in the minors. Madrigal recently has improved to nearly 8%. Newmans k rate was 7%, while Madrigals is 2%. 

So main point is you have some comparison points for a recent highly rated contact hitter. Though I'm sure that doesn't excite everyone too much. 

Good info but physically Newman makes Madrigal look child like.  Madrigal needs to continue to work on his body.  And no I wouldn't be opposed to a little juice.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Good info but physically Newman makes Madrigal look child like.  Madrigal needs to continue to work on his body.  And no I wouldn't be opposed to a little juice.

I think Madrigal probably will have less than ideal power production even by standards for him until 25 or later. 

[Lillian]

Madrigal seems to be pretty adept at stealing bases. Maybe the better outcome would be for him to continue to hit line drives and take walks. His small stature presents a small strike zone, for opposing pitchers to target. I hope he becomes even more selective and draws more walks, which with his extraordinary contact skills, could make him an ideal leadoff hitter. I'd take a .320 to .330 AVG and a near .400 OBP, with 40 to 50 steals, over his developing 15 Home run power. Let him accidentally hit 5 to 10 homers a year, but be an on base machine and steal lots of bases. The Sox should have plenty of guys to drive him in, without Nick having to sell out his contact skill, in order to try to hit a few more homers.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Lillian

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Lillian said:

Madrigal seems to be pretty adept at stealing bases. Maybe the better outcome would be for him to continue to hit line drives and take walks. His small stature presents a small strike zone, for opposing pitchers to target. I hope he becomes even more selective and draws more walks, which with his extraordinary contact skills, could make him an ideal leadoff hitter. I'd take a .320 to .330 AVG and a near .400 OBP, with 40 to 50 steals, over his developing 15 Home run power. Let him accidentally hit 5 to 10 homers a year, but be an on base machine and steal lots of bases. The Sox should have plenty of guys to drive him in, without Nick having to sell out his contact skill, in order to try to hit a few more homers.

Something I've been pondering lately without knowing the answer - obviously we don't have anyone in baseball doing anything like the stuff Raines and Henderson did in the 1980s, 100+ steals, but it seems to me like the guys who get to 40 or 50 steals these days are constantly getting hurt and they can only do that for a couple years Am I wrong in that impression? Is there something about the way the game is being played these days that makes guys more injury prone on a stolen base than they used to be?

[Lillian]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Something I've been pondering lately without knowing the answer - obviously we don't have anyone in baseball doing anything like the stuff Raines and Henderson did in the 1980s, 100+ steals, but it seems to me like the guys who get to 40 or 50 steals these days are constantly getting hurt and they can only do that for a couple years Am I wrong in that impression? Is there something about the way the game is being played these days that makes guys more injury prone on a stolen base than they used to be?

You can add Maury Wills and Vince Coleman to the list of former stolen base leaders, who managed to steal bases without getting hurt. Although Henderson slid head first, most of the time, that might be part of the problem for many base stealers. I think Madrigal is using the feet first slide.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Lillian

[ron883]

4 hours ago, turnin' two said:

You don't find advocating for steroids for one guy and demonizing another for chew to be odd?  But I get it, I'm done.

Does dip help a player's performance like steroids? No.

Are steroids easily available and cheap for minors? No. 

Are steroids as visibly obvious as a lip full of dip? No.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

On 6/5/2019 at 11:45 AM, BackDoorBreach said:

Too soon.  He has only been hitting okay for 2 weeks.  

?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

On 6/5/2019 at 12:00 PM, Balta1701 said:

It's certainly possible; if his numbers are in the .725-.750 range at birmingham then he looks a lot more like a big leaguer. It just remains that he has very little margin for error; if his batting average drops a little more, then he falls onto the other edge of the knife. 

Does .946 play?

[Balta1701]

9 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Does .946 play?

I deserve this. This player is totally showing me up and I'm ok with it.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 6/30/2019 at 4:49 AM, Lillian said:

I had previously thought that he wouldn't be able to hit even that many homers, however now that I've seen so many smaller players hit homers and the distance on some of the balls hit by average sized guys, I've changed my mind. This lively ball and the hitter friendly Guaranteed Rate Field should afford him the chance to hit a few homers. Given his extraordinary contact skills, I think he will hit enough homers to garner a 40 grade for power. Moreover, he will almost certainly get stronger, with his weight training regimen.

Manfred acknowledged that Rawlings just got better at centering the pill of the ball. Slightly off center even the tiniest bit causes more drag because the ball may wobble more. A perfectly centered pill is more aerodynamic thus less wobble and less drag. Not sure if Manfred can tell Rawlings to use the old technology to make less than perfect centering of the pill.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/are-baseballs-juiced-mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-says-centering-of-the-pill-is-partially-causing-home-run-spike/

Edited July 5, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[RTC]

I'm not a rah rah "get player X to Chicago now!" type of guy, so serious question: what benefit does Madrigal gain by staying in Bham or even Charlotte at this point?  I was thinking about it and there's usually something the player needs to work on, some reason why he's not quite ready.  Does Nick's contact skills, or speed, or defense really need more time in the minors?  It sure doesn't seem like it.  And it's not like he's there to work on his power.  I could see why Collins wasn't up yet, and I see things in Roberts game that could still use a little polish, and I didn't think Moncada was quite ready last year, but what are the (non-service-time) reasons to NOT bring up Madrigal at this point?

[mqr]

11 minutes ago, RTC said:

I'm not a rah rah "get player X to Chicago now!" type of guy, so serious question: what benefit does Madrigal gain by staying in Bham or even Charlotte at this point?  I was thinking about it and there's usually something the player needs to work on, some reason why he's not quite ready.  Does Nick's contact skills, or speed, or defense really need more time in the minors?  It sure doesn't seem like it.  And it's not like he's there to work on his power.  I could see why Collins wasn't up yet, and I see things in Roberts game that could still use a little polish, and I didn't think Moncada was quite ready last year, but what are the (non-service-time) reasons to NOT bring up Madrigal at this point?

His bat to ball skills are so good that it can cause some issues with getting on base if he's not getting hits. MLB teams are going to able to shift the hell out of him so I would like to see him go to Charlotte and maintain the walk rate he has right now in Birmingham. 

That being said, I think he'd be at least as good as yolmer right this second. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by mqr

[HeHatesShe]

36 minutes ago, mqr said:

His bat to ball skills are so good that it can cause some issues with getting on base if he's not getting hits. MLB teams are going to able to shift the hell out of him so I would like to see him go to Charlotte and maintain the walk rate he has right now in Birmingham. 

That being said, I think he'd be at least as good as yolmer right this second. 

I don't think, given his speed and bat to ball skills, that anyone would be able to successfully shift against him. The holes in the infield are just too big in a shift, and he'd be able to but the bat on the ball and guide the ball where he wants it to go. His current hit chart would dissuade that notion also, as there are quite a few balls that go right where the shortstop would normally be. 

[mqr]

12 minutes ago, HeHatesShe said:

I don't think, given his speed and bat to ball skills, that anyone would be able to successfully shift against him. The holes in the infield are just too big in a shift, and he'd be able to but the bat on the ball and guide the ball where he wants it to go. His current hit chart would dissuade that notion also, as there are quite a few balls that go right where the shortstop would normally be. 

He'll probably be able to keep the infield honest, I'm more concerned with the outfield. Regardless, would still like to see him against guys who are less inclined to be wild. That's a thing he could probably learn at the Major League lever, and I wouldn't be opposed to that, but the poster asked for what benefit there could be. 

[HeHatesShe]

4 minutes ago, mqr said:

He'll probably be able to keep the infield honest, I'm more concerned with the outfield. Regardless, would still like to see him against guys who are less inclined to be wild. That's a thing he could probably learn at the Major League lever, and I wouldn't be opposed to that, but the poster asked for what benefit there could be. 

Right now ther only reason not to bring him to AAA is because they don't really want to touch Mendick right now. Maybe they don't know what to do with Mendick. They could bring him up for Rondon but there's no certainty you wouldn't get the same results. Same with Sanchez. But what we can all agree on is that Madrigal is going to be better than all three of them, and most likely already is. 

That would lead one to believe that service time is really the only thing keeping him from MLB, and not knowing what to do with the 3 in front of him is why he's still in AA.

[RTC]

Thanks for the responses guys.  So I guess the answer to my question is “not much”.  Was just thinking about the development curve of Moncada and Giolito (and maybe seeing the same trajectory for Eloy) and thinking guys that are this close might benefit from getting their feet wet sooner and working the kinks out before it they’re in full compete mode.