TaylorStSox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Their payroll has been competitive but in terms of top guys their contract offers have not been. It does not matter whether or not the south side is an attractive destination if they are insistent that top level players must give them a 20% discount. Or, they just decided Machado was a $25m a year player and if he didn't take it, they'd gladly shift Moncada over. Either way, it looks like a huge win for Hahn and company right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: The Sox payroll has been competitive. Attracting free agents has always been a different story. The Sox are not an attractive destination and we probably never will be. Everything about the White Sox is mediocre and that's not going to change as long as there's a team playing in a much better neighborhood in the same city. Maybe, but did you know the average MLB payroll right now is higher than the Sox highest payroll ever? If you think about it, the only reason you can say the Sox payroll is competitive is due to the division they are in. Most other divisions, the JR is cheap narrative would be louder than imaginable. Edited June 24, 2019 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Maybe, but did you know the average MLB payroll right now is higher than the Sox highest payroll ever? If you think about it, the only reason you can say the Sox payroll is competitive is due to the division they are in. Most other divisions, the JR is cheap narrative would be louder than imaginable. Payrolls are inflationary? Who would have thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Payrolls are inflationary? Who would have thought? They are, but average is average, and the highest payroll in franchise history is $6 million below this years average. 20 teams had payrolls above the Sox "record" in 2018, 16 in 2017, 10 in 2016 when they still were "all in". Edited June 24, 2019 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) On 6/24/2019 at 11:08 AM, Jack Parkman said: I think the Sox should try Rodon in the bullpen when he gets back. He can't stay healthy as a starter. I'm on board with those who think the Sox should go after a top starter(Cole/Bumgarner/Strasburg) and a back end starter( I really like the Alex Wood suggestions) I'm actually ok with going after Strasburg near the TDL and hoping that he opts in, and if he doesn't give him an extra year at 20M to entice him to do so. He shouldn't cost all that much in prospect capital. I don't even think it would take one of the Sox top 100 guys to get it done. When Rodon returns, he is only going to have one year left, before he will be eligible for free agency. Wouldn't putting him in the bullpen be a poor way to try to re-establish his value, for a possible trade? And if he opts to become a free agent, that might influence his decision to consider an offer to stay with the Sox? However, on the other hand, they could make a qualifying offer and if he doesn't accept, at least they would get the compensation pick, in the Draft. I personally would like to see if Rodon could finally stay healthy, as a starter. Recovering from TJS seems pretty much a high probability and his shoulder has already been repaired, sufficiently to assuage any of those concerns. Interesting decision. Let's just hope that he gets healthy and then the front office can try to figure it out. Edited June 30, 2019 by Lillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: They are You could have stopped there. It makes the rest of your post moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Lillian said: When Rodon returns, he is only going to have one left, before he will be eligible for free agency. Wouldn't putting him in the bullpen be a poor way to try to re-establish his value, for a possible trade? And if he opts to become a free agent, that might influence his decision to consider an offer to stay with the Sox? However, on the other hand, they could make a qualifying offer and if he doesn't accept, at least they would get the compensation pick, in the Draft. I personally would like to see if Rodon could finally stay healthy, as a starter. Recovering from TJS seems pretty much a high probability and his shoulder has already been repaired, sufficiently to assuage any of those concerns. Interesting decision. Let's just hope that he gets healthy and then the front office can try to figure it out. He's no longer part of the Sox long term plans, IMO. He's going to hit the FA market regardless, given that Boras is his agent. The Sox need to prepare for 2020 without him. They can stretch him out in 2021 if they want to, but for 2020 they need to have that spot occupied by a competent, semi durable starter. Maybe they can give him starts when they have to shut down Kopech toward the end of the season, but they should work him for longer stints out of the bullpen to start, until he needs to replace either Kopech or Cease. Edited June 24, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, Lillian said: When Rodon returns, he is only going to have one left, before he will be eligible for free agency. Wouldn't putting him in the bullpen be a poor way to try to re-establish his value, for a possible trade? And if he opts to become a free agent, that might influence his decision to consider an offer to stay with the Sox? However, on the other hand, they could make a qualifying offer and if he doesn't accept, at least they would get the compensation pick, in the Draft. I personally would like to see if Rodon could finally stay healthy, as a starter. Recovering from TJS seems pretty much a high probability and his shoulder has already been repaired, sufficiently to assuage any of those concerns. Interesting decision. Let's just hope that he gets healthy and then the front office can try to figure it out. The shoulder is one thing. TJS is one thing. The shoulder combined with TJS is a death sentence. Rodon is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: The shoulder is one thing. TJS is one thing. The shoulder combined with TJS is a death sentence. Rodon is done. Thanks Dr. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, Dick Allen said: Thanks Dr. So salty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: He's no longer part of the Sox long term plans, IMO. He's going to hit the FA market regardless, given that Boras is his agent. The Sox need to prepare for 2020 without him. They can stretch him out in 2021 if they want to, but for 2020 they need to have that spot occupied by a competent, semi durable starter. Maybe they can give him starts when they have to shut down Kopech toward the end of the season. This is by far my biggest complaint with the rebuild thus far. Forget Alonso, Machado, Harper, Nova, etc. Not trading Rodon last year when it was rumored he might be on the block was a big missed opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: The shoulder is one thing. TJS is one thing. The shoulder combined with TJS is a death sentence. Rodon is done. I don't understand. Why should the two, resolved physical conditions be such an overwhelming obstacle to a pitcher's complete recovery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Lillian said: When Rodon returns, he is only going to have one left, before he will be eligible for free agency. Wouldn't putting him in the bullpen be a poor way to try to re-establish his value, for a possible trade? And if he opts to become a free agent, that might influence his decision to consider an offer to stay with the Sox? However, on the other hand, they could make a qualifying offer and if he doesn't accept, at least they would get the compensation pick, in the Draft. I personally would like to see if Rodon could finally stay healthy, as a starter. Recovering from TJS seems pretty much a high probability and his shoulder has already been repaired, sufficiently to assuage any of those concerns. Interesting decision. Let's just hope that he gets healthy and then the front office can try to figure it out. This will be second half/late next season. Maybe pitch him in the pen the rest of the year but then have the idea he will start in 2021 as the 5th starter? Maybe they will have someone else knocking on the door in 2021 that can get his innings if he goes on the IL that year. Edited June 24, 2019 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 I do think people bank on TJ surgery being no big deal, but there have been several guys who have come back not so well from it, at least initially. Rosenthal, Smylie, Burdi....So with 1 year to go before he goes wherever he wants, you would have to think Rodon is seriously a non tender candidate. It probably depends on how the rehab is going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: This is by far my biggest complaint with the rebuild thus far. Forget Alonso, Machado, Harper, Nova, etc. Not trading Rodon last year when it was rumored he might be on the block was a big missed opportunity. He was just coming off of shoulder surgery and had very little value. They couldn't have moved him during the season, you could argue they should have moved him this past offseason, but again who would have paid for him? Rodon is and has been practically worthless in trade because of his lack of durability. It is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: I do think people bank on TJ surgery being no big deal, but there have been several guys who have come back not so well from it, at least initially. Rosenthal, Smylie, Burdi....So with 1 year to go before he goes wherever he wants, you would have to think Rodon is seriously a non tender candidate. It probably depends on how the rehab is going. 100% Agreed. I don't think they're going to cut bait, but they might. I think they're just going to keep him until he reaches FA and then let him walk. Edited June 24, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: He was just coming off of shoulder surgery and had very little value. They couldn't have moved him during the season, you could argue they should have moved him this past offseason, but again who would have paid for him? Rodon is and has been practically worthless in trade because of his lack of durability. It is what it is. Actually his value was pretty high last year approaching the trade deadline. I was one of the few on here saying trade him while most others agreed with pnoles; https://mobile.twitter.com/soxmach_pnoles/status/1022864085350842374?lang=en Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Actually his value was pretty high last year approaching the trade deadline. I was one of the few on here saying trade him while most others agreed with pnoles; https://mobile.twitter.com/soxmach_pnoles/status/1022864085350842374?lang=en Rick Hahn was the only person who knows how high his value actually was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, Lillian said: I don't understand. Why should the two, resolved physical conditions be such an overwhelming obstacle to a pitcher's complete recovery? Can you name a single pitcher who's had both major shoulder surgery and TJS and came back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Actually his value was pretty high last year approaching the trade deadline. I was one of the few on here saying trade him while most others agreed with pnoles; https://mobile.twitter.com/soxmach_pnoles/status/1022864085350842374?lang=en I would have traded him as well. I was hoping they would have done so. I thought the Braves were a good match, I would have done it for Toussaint and Gohara and been done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Can you name a single pitcher who's had both major shoulder surgery and TJS and came back? He didn't have major shoulder surgery. He had severe bursitis. they had to go in there and cut the bursa sacs in his shoulder to relieve the pain and let the bursa sacs heal. He had no structural issues when they were in there. As far as shoulder surgery goes, it was as benign as it gets. They probably only went in there because it wasn't getting better with antibiotics. Edited June 24, 2019 by Jack Parkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: He didn't have major shoulder surgery. He had severe bursitis. they had to go in there and cut the bursa sacs in his shoulder to relieve the pain and let the bursa sacs heal. He had no structural issues when they were in there. All shoulder surgeries are major for a pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Rick Hahn was the only person who knows how high his value actually was. With smoke around him last July, I’d be shocked if Rodon couldn’t have landed a top 100 MLB prospect and another couple 40/45 FV prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, TaylorStSox said: All shoulder surgeries are major for a pitcher. He was able to return from that. Now he has no shoulder issue, so why does he have no chance to return? You did say he was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: With smoke around him last July, I’d be shocked if Rodon couldn’t have landed a top 100 MLB prospect and another couple 40/45 FV prospects. Coming off shoulder surgery, I'd be shocked if he had any value. See how that works? Neither of us really know. Edited June 24, 2019 by TaylorStSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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