Dick Allen Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: 3 years ago, if I would have told any of you that this team would be hovering around 500, with the lowest payroll in baseball and have Kopech, Rodon, Dunning, Hansen, Burdi, Hamilton, Burger, Alolfo and Basabe all suffer career threatening injuries, you wouldn't have believed me. Who cares about hovering around .500 ? That's mediocrity defined. And since only 2 of those guys have actually played in the major leagues, and one for 14 innings, why do their injuries make much difference other than to fit into your ridiculous narrative. Edited June 24, 2019 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: Yeah, you can get guys like Nova, Alonso, Jay, Santana. Maybe now that you have some prospects, pick up another Shields. Watching this rotation makes me yearn for James Shields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: 3 years ago, if I would have told any of you that this team would be hovering around 500, with the lowest payroll in baseball and have Kopech, Rodon, Dunning, Hansen, Burdi, Hamilton, Burger, Alolfo and Basabe all suffer career threatening injuries, you wouldn't have believed me. What a great accomplishment. If this team is still sitting 3 games under 500 this time next year and running guys like Despaigne and Ivan Nova out there then Hahn deserves to be fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Yeah, you can get guys like Nova, Alonso, Jay, Santana. Maybe now that you have some prospects, pick up another Shields. None of those guys are part of the future and you know that. You're not dumb. They're all here temporarily so we can field a team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, OneDog847 said: What a great accomplishment. If this team is still sitting 3 games under 500 this time next year and running guys like Despaigne and Ivan Nova out there then Hahn deserves to be fired. Hopefully the rotation is one of Cole/Bumgarner, Giolito, Cease, Kopech, and Lopez or a cheap signing or trade (someone like Mike Leake?) for the 5th spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Who cares about hovering around .500 ? That's mediocrity defined. And since only 2 of those guys have actually played in the major leagues, and one for 14 innings, why do their injuries make much difference other than to fit into your ridiculous narrative. Being around 500 at this point in the rebuild is exactly where they're supposed to be. Don't be mad at me. Be mad at Harper and Machado for not playing very well. They're making the message board experts look bad. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, TaylorStSox said: None of those guys are part of the future and you know that. You're not dumb. They're all here temporarily so we can field a team. But they cost money, and nowhere near minimum. BTW, if you went back to the beginning of the rebuild, not many would be happy with hovering around .500 at this time. Many thought 2019 was going to be the first year of contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Being around 500 at this point in the rebuild is exactly where they're supposed to be. Don't be mad at me. Be mad at Harper and Machado for not playing very well. They're making the message board experts look bad. I would have to think Machado would be hitting better on our team (ballpark alone would make a difference). Not that he's doing bad anymore (average up to .278, .354 OBP, 16 homers and OPSing at .847). That production would be amazing compared to Yolmer. Edited June 24, 2019 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 25 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Even though Harper is a bust so far and Moncada is out playing Machado. There was that one guy who was right on the money about Tatis Jr though. Heads? Hire him. If it was up to Caulfield, we'd be fielding a team of Puig and... That's it. Just Puig. My thoughts on Tatis, Robert and Madrigal are quite easy to find. And sure...the way Puig has hit the last two months he would be a masdive upgrade ovet Cordell and Tilson. Pretty much identical fWAR with Jimenez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, TaylorStSox said: Being around 500 at this point in the rebuild is exactly where they're supposed to be. Don't be mad at me. Be mad at Harper and Machado for not playing very well. They're making the message board experts look bad. Machado has a very similar fWAR to Moncada. He's playing pretty well. Harper hasn't been very good, but he'll be OK and would have been a huge upgrade to the crap the Sox currently trot out to RF, not to mention the extra revenue these guys would have brought with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, TaylorStSox said: Being around 500 at this point in the rebuild is exactly where they're supposed to be. Don't be mad at me. Be mad at Harper and Machado for not playing very well. They're making the message board experts look bad. Yeah I was completely pissed when I was on a plane for Miami and I saw Machado was headed for SD, but honestly this is where things are expected to be right now. If Kopech was healthy, if Rodon was healthy, if Dunning was healthy, we wouldn't have had the Despaigne experiment and perhaps even the Nova experiment. That's not Hahn's fault, it's bad luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, Dick Allen said: Machado has a very similar fWAR to Moncada. He's playing pretty well. Harper hasn't been very good, but he'll be OK and would have been a huge upgrade to the crap the Sox currently trot out to RF, not to mention the extra revenue these guys would have brought with them. Harper has been terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, soxfan49 said: Yeah I was completely pissed when I was on a plane for Miami and I saw Machado was headed for SD, but honestly this is where things are expected to be right now. If Kopech was healthy, if Rodon was healthy, if Dunning was healthy, we wouldn't have had the Despaigne experiment and perhaps even the Nova experiment. That's not Hahn's fault, it's bad luck. Exactly. If Rodon and Kopech don't go down, we're probably 5 or 6 over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Harper has been terrible. He's been so bad his fWAR is about the same as Tim Anderson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Just acknowledging that Hahn is killing it. The three big trades and Robert look great at the moment. Had Hahn really been killing it and was able to supplement via the draft, this rebuild would be in fantastic shape. Unfortunately he’s failed in that regard and our margin for error is paper thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: But they cost money, and nowhere near minimum. BTW, if you went back to the beginning of the rebuild, not many would be happy with hovering around .500 at this time. Many thought 2019 was going to be the first year of contention. I'm not sure who "many" is but if you're referring to the message board experts, fine but actual experts like Steve Stone would cite 2020 regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Who cares about hovering around .500 ? That's mediocrity defined. And since only 2 of those guys have actually played in the major leagues, and one for 14 innings, why do their injuries make much difference other than to fit into your ridiculous narrative. What are the current Las Vegas odds for any of those last six putting up more than 2-3 fWAR in their entire careers？ Numerous healthy hitters are just as disconcerting, especially Collins' swing that makes even Viciedo and Beckham look quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: The three big trades and Robert look great at the moment. Had Hahn really been killing it and was able to supplement via the draft, this rebuild would be in fantastic shape. Unfortunately he’s failed in that regard and our margin for error is paper thin. I was thinking about it the other day and 3 of the most exciting players on the team are each of the biggest pieces in those trades: Giolito, Moncada, and Eloy. Edit: that's not to say guys like Cease and Kopech aren't big. Edited June 24, 2019 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: Hopefully the rotation is one of Cole/Bumgarner, Giolito, Cease, Kopech, and Lopez or a cheap signing or trade (someone like Mike Leake?) for the 5th spot. The Sox need to go hard after Cole this offseason. However, they don't need to blow their entire wad this offseason either. Go get Cole this year and a guy like Robbie Ray or James Paxton the next offseason. The Sox are going to have to use that $250 million that was supposedly earmarked for Machado on pitching pitching and more pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: He's been so bad his fWAR is about the same as Tim Anderson. Which is quite the steal for $4.2m/season but would you pay that fWAR $26m/season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Yeah I was completely pissed when I was on a plane for Miami and I saw Machado was headed for SD, but honestly this is where things are expected to be right now. If Kopech was healthy, if Rodon was healthy, if Dunning was healthy, we wouldn't have had the Despaigne experiment and perhaps even the Nova experiment. That's not Hahn's fault, it's bad luck. The point of people advocating signing for Machado was to remove some of the luck required in the rebuild, however. And much of the criticism is of process, which doesn't mean the outcomes cannot be good. I am very happy with Moncada, Anderson, Eloy and Giolito. You can see my posts post-machado, there was always a way to contention but weirdly enough getting players whose down years get you an .850 OPs and great defense was what I wanted! But the main issues are well documented, but aside from injuries it has been : - Still developing player development operation - Inability to convert more depth from international scouting operation - Inability to convert more depth from rounds 3-10 in draft - Consistently signing free agents that then produce the worst year of their careers. Regardless of whether the free agents are supposed to be "part of the core", signing free agents during our competing years of 2014-16 proved to be an awful mark on Hahns tenure, and he has not gotten better. And I do not want to hear about McCann, I'm as happy as ever on signing him, but every GM in the game has a McCann that has been around longer than 2 years. When we started the rebuild, the expectation was we were setting ourselves up for consistent contention. Trading away three great, cost controlled players for prospects and multiple top ten picks should net us great prospects and a competitive team. It's fair for people to judge whether their process is consistent with other organizations who are putting together consistently excellent teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, OneDog847 said: The Sox need to go hard after Cole this offseason. However, they don't need to blow their entire wad this offseason either. Go get Cole this year and a guy like Robbie Ray or James Paxton the next offseason. The Sox are going to have to use that $250 million that was supposedly earmarked for Machado on pitching pitching and more pitching. Agreed. Can never have enough pitcihng. Lopez can start next year in the minors trying to work his way back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Machado has a very similar fWAR to Moncada. He's playing pretty well. Harper hasn't been very good, but he'll be OK and would have been a huge upgrade to the crap the Sox currently trot out to RF, not to mention the extra revenue these guys would have brought with them. Philadelphia and SD have had the two biggest attendance bumps this year...amazing how that works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: What are the current Las Vegas odds for any of those last six putting up more than 2-3 fWAR in their entire careers？ Numerous healthy hitters are just as disconcerting, especially Collins' swing that makes even Viciedo and Beckham look quick. Who cares about Collins? We all know at this point that he isn't a huge part of the rebuild. It's Cease, Kopech, Giolito, Robert, Moncada, Jimenez, Anderson and Madrigal. You can add Vaughn in at the moment too. Collins would've been an exciting prospect for this organization in 2012. He isn't now. Edited June 24, 2019 by soxfan49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: What are the current Las Vegas odds for any of those last six putting up more than 2-3 fWAR in their entire careers？ Numerous healthy hitters are just as disconcerting, especially Collins' swing that makes even Viciedo and Beckham look quick. Now Viciedo's didn't have quick hands? Jesus. Do you even watch games? Or did you mean to type Fields? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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