greg775 Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 The superior Clayton?? I can't believe I read that. He is where he belongs, with a horses*** team where he can bat 500 times and suck in anonymity. I don't care if Clayton hits .400 somehow. He was a stiff for us. Ditto Lofton and Alomar and Ritchie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted January 2, 2003 Author Share Posted January 2, 2003 Alomar did well for us. what did he do to make you say he was a stiff??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Hidalgo Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by soxfan420Alomar did well for us. what did he do to make you say he was a stiff??? Alomar did nothing for the Sox,hence the reason he is a stiff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by witesoxfanHe probably was calling people out....the same thing happened during the All-Star break when Konerko called out Thomas, and the same thing happened when Matt Millen called his player a devout coward on the Mike Ditka show. You wonder why they don't talk about it afterwards? It's because the problem gets fixed. Thats why I didnt like Koney for a while. I hate when these guys point people out. PK and Val didnt need to do what they did but unlike Val, PK has the numbers that lead to my forgiving him. Val has done nothing to redeem himself in my eyes and Id really like him out of Chicago (well, the Northside would be ok I guess). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 "He said certain players werent showing up for BP. Now is that any of his business? No. Did he need to go to the media? No. JM knew who wasnt doing his job and he would deal with it. Val helped nothing by going and telling the entire planet." That's absolutely wrong. Williams had to go into the clubhouse and meet with Lofton and Clayton, who were the ones 'dogging' it. Manuel had no clue, even after being told by several players and coaches. Williams then met with JM. Had Jose' not pursued, it would've been worse than it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by theoldromanThats why I didnt like Koney for a while. I hate when these guys point people out. PK and Val didnt need to do what they did but unlike Val, PK has the numbers that lead to my forgiving him. Val has done nothing to redeem himself in my eyes and Id really like him out of Chicago (well, the Northside would be ok I guess). Konerko has the numbers for you to forgive him, but Valentin does not? What the f*** are you smoking? Konerko - .303 27 104 Valentin - .248 25 75 Valentin hit 2 less homers all year, had 29 fewer RBI and a much worse batting average(will get back to that later)....the power numbers alone state it for me....Valentin is doing something that only a few SS's in the majors could do....play SS and hit 25 homers....tell me, how many others can do that(without striking out 188 times)...and your answer would be a very small number....after that, tell me how many could make some of the plays that Jose does(because he does make some plays that only a few could dream of making, and that group includes Royce)? He makes many, many errors. Regardless, Valentin had much less playing time than Konerko did....Jose played in 135 games, Konerko in 151 games...a 16 game difference...I'm sure Jose could have done a little damage in 16 games. Here's a little something to chew on Konerko's stats w/ RISP - .303 9 80 Valentin's stats w/RISP - .351 4 49 Jose hit 48 points higher with RISP, or in other words, when it really mattered, and he drove in over half the runs Konerko did with RISP batting from either the #2 spot or the #6 spot oir the #7 spot....however, he never really started any rallies...that's why he's not a leadoff hitter....when leading off an inning, he hit .179....with 1 or 2 outs and no one on, he hit .233, and .209 overall with no one on. However, he kept rallies going, which is the perfect reason for him to be hitting #2....if Jimenez were to get on base, Jose could move him over. Regardless....Jose is the team leader....Konerko is not. There really is no difference to me....Jose does more for the team than show up in his stats...same with Konerko....Jose does more...he brings more intangibles to the game than Konerko does. You can think what you want to....it won't bother me. You just remember that when we win this year, a lot of credit should be given to Jose. Not all, but a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by witesoxfan Originally posted by theoldromanThats why I didnt like Koney for a while. I hate when these guys point people out. PK and Val didnt need to do what they did but unlike Val, PK has the numbers that lead to my forgiving him. Val has done nothing to redeem himself in my eyes and Id really like him out of Chicago (well, the Northside would be ok I guess). Konerko has the numbers for you to forgive him, but Valentin does not? What the f*** are you smoking? Konerko - .303 27 104 Valentin - .248 25 75 Valentin hit 2 less homers all year, had 29 fewer RBI and a much worse batting average(will get back to that later)....the power numbers alone state it for me....Valentin is doing something that only a few SS's in the majors could do....play SS and hit 25 homers....tell me, how many others can do that(without striking out 188 times)...and your answer would be a very small number....after that, tell me how many could make some of the plays that Jose does(because he does make some plays that only a few could dream of making, and that group includes Royce)? He makes many, many errors. Regardless, Valentin had much less playing time than Konerko did....Jose played in 135 games, Konerko in 151 games...a 16 game difference...I'm sure Jose could have done a little damage in 16 games. Here's a little something to chew on Konerko's stats w/ RISP - .303 9 80 Valentin's stats w/RISP - .351 4 49 Jose hit 48 points higher with RISP, or in other words, when it really mattered, and he drove in over half the runs Konerko did with RISP batting from either the #2 spot or the #6 spot oir the #7 spot....however, he never really started any rallies...that's why he's not a leadoff hitter....when leading off an inning, he hit .179....with 1 or 2 outs and no one on, he hit .233, and .209 overall with no one on. However, he kept rallies going, which is the perfect reason for him to be hitting #2....if Jimenez were to get on base, Jose could move him over. Regardless....Jose is the team leader....Konerko is not. There really is no difference to me....Jose does more for the team than show up in his stats...same with Konerko....Jose does more...he brings more intangibles to the game than Konerko does. You can think what you want to....it won't bother me. You just remember that when we win this year, a lot of credit should be given to Jose. Not all, but a lot. Don't forget that Valentin was also an AL leader in avg with RISP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by theoldromanI just cant stand Jose and his incessant need to point his finger. He needs to take responsibility and mind his own damn business. So you'll go with the guy who struggled for 2 seasons to avg .100 in April and May, dated a teammates ex-wife, went sans cleats during a game and changed to his running shoes to, for lack of a better word, "protest" his benching by JM..... man..... I could go on but if you'll take a stroke like K-layton over Jose because of one Valentin indiscretion, then have at him. You and K-layton should be snug as two bugs in a rug living in the cellar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted January 2, 2003 Author Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by Poppy Hidalgo Originally posted by soxfan420Alomar did well for us. what did he do to make you say he was a stiff??? Alomar did nothing for the Sox,hence the reason he is a stiff. he hit .287 for us thats pretty good for a catcher. not to mention the pitchers like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 JV is, in my book, a winner. He's also a leader, and sometimes leaders have to call someone out on lack of effort. I'm glad he's a Sox. If he was on the northside, he'd make us regret sending there, big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by CubKilla Originally posted by theoldroman If Caballo is below average, Joe is nothing. I dont know why anyones excited about him at all. He has done nothing in the pros and very well could be the next Chad Hermanson. Crede is a prospect that I like and he will be the real thing, he has shown us that potential. JB has not and perhaps he never will. Caballos a fine LF, if JB never shows up it really wont matter. If he does, he can play center but no way he takes Carlos place. I'm gonna put this as nicely as possible..... why, after one and one half months of MLB play, are you ready to call Borchard "a nothing?" Is one and one half months of MLB play (in which JB was, more often than not, a late inning replacement or PH) enough to consider him a bust? Is seeing him bat 4 times enough to label him a stiff? Please, explain why Joe Borchard is, in your opinion, tantamount to "a nothing?" Common courtesy and respect for a fellow White Sox fan will keep me from telling you how I really feel about the BS you just posted. For once, CubKilla and I agree 100% with each other. At worst, everyone who know baseball is saying Borchard develop into just as good a player as Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by theoldromanHe said certain players werent showing up for BP. Now is that any of his business? No. Did he need to go to the media? No. JM knew who wasnt doing his job and he would deal with it. Val helped nothing by going and telling the entire planet. Jose is one of the leaders on this team. Pointing fingers like that wasn't a horrible thing, and it wasn't a great thing. The guy loves playing ball, and as many know, I'm one not a Manos supporter, but as a leader he's pretty good and he's a great guy. I don't want him as our starting shortstop, and i never wanted Royce as our starting shortstop, I have always wanted someone else. I'm hoping Jimenez plays great and Harris plays great and they can play 2nd and short. I know it ain't likely, but I can hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by Poppy Hidalgo Originally posted by soxfan420Alomar did well for us. what did he do to make you say he was a stiff??? Alomar did nothing for the Sox,hence the reason he is a stiff. Alomar was a crappy starter for us and was hurt all the time. I think he'll be a much better backup. Backups need to play every once in a while, and provide good leadership. Alomar will do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted January 2, 2003 Author Share Posted January 2, 2003 i wasnt suggesting we start him he is the best signing for the back up roll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 This s*** again? Clayton f***ing sucks ass. End of f***ing story!!! Alomar walked like what 5 times? He is an adequate backup catcher so whatever. But he was a stiff as our "starting" catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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