bmags Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 7:53 PM, Jack Parkman said: If the Sox could get Frazier that would be great, I'm not sure I want to give up on Lopez yet though. Expand We would have so much position player cost certainty though, and we are developing so many pitchers at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) On 6/14/2019 at 7:54 PM, bmags said: We would have so much position player cost certainty though, and we are developing so many pitchers at once. Expand I understand the argument completely, but if you're punting on Lopez I'd rather it be for someone like Conforto, who has a track record and is a LH bat that this lineup needs. Edited June 14, 2019 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 8:00 PM, Jack Parkman said: I understand the argument completely, but if you're punting on Lopez I'd rather it be for someone like Conforto, who has a track record and is a LH bat that this lineup needs. Expand But the yankees may actually trade Frazier. And would like SP. Would they want one of the worst pitchers this year if he's young and cost controlled? I hope so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 3:36 PM, mqr said: Expand Patrice... my man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 A lot of hype surrounding tonight. Feels like the biggest stage for a White Sox starter in years. I don't like it... lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 I don’t think it’s been mentioned, but Lucas is going for win 10 tonight and we aren’t even at the 70 game mark! That’s wild as fuck!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 8:28 PM, Chicago White Sox said: I don’t think it’s been mentioned, but Lucas is going for win 10 tonight and we aren’t even at the 70 game mark! That’s wild as fuck!! Expand James Baldwin 2000 territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 8:28 PM, Chicago White Sox said: I don’t think it’s been mentioned, but Lucas is going for win 10 tonight and we aren’t even at the 70 game mark! That’s wild as fuck!! Expand And he’s been on the Injured List this season too. Should be a good one tonight! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 8:33 PM, bmags said: James Baldwin 2000 territory. Expand On 6/14/2019 at 8:28 PM, Chicago White Sox said: I don’t think it’s been mentioned, but Lucas is going for win 10 tonight and we aren’t even at the 70 game mark! That’s wild as fuck!! Expand Sale had 14 beginning July in 2016 just barely past the halfway point. He finished the season with only 17 wins. Now... that is wild as fuck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 9:46 PM, Richie said: Sale had 14 beginning July in 2016 just barely past the halfway point. He finished the season with only 17 wins. Now... that is wild as fuck. Expand I predict that one of the WAR guys is going to tell you wins don't matter. I know...I think that's a load of crap too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 I am actually nervous for a game, that is a weird feeling I haven't had in a long time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 10:28 PM, poppysox said: I predict that one of the WAR guys is going to tell you wins don't matter. I know...I think that's a load of crap too. Expand Wins are important to the team as a whole and probably mean a lot to each pitcher because they want to have a W next to their name, but evaluating pitchers based on a W/L record is ridiculous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 10:34 PM, Sleepy Harold said: Wins are important to the team as a whole and probably mean a lot to each pitcher because they want to have a W next to their name, but evaluating pitchers based on a W/L record is ridiculous. Expand Told you so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 10:36 PM, poppysox said: Told you so. Expand Where am I wrong? Jacob DeGrom was a very pedestrian 10-9 last season. Evaluating him based on W/L record would indicate that he had a mediocre season (which we all know couldn't be further from the truth). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 10:42 PM, Sleepy Harold said: Where am I wrong? Jacob DeGrom was a very pedestrian 10-9 last season. Evaluating him based on W/L record would indicate that he had a mediocre season (which we all know couldn't be further from the truth). Expand Wins will always and should be one of the statistics that have value in evaluating a starting pitcher. Many pitchers have had the ability to do what needs to be done in order to win. They knew that in order to pitch 200+ innings they didn't try to strike everyone out. They knew how to pace themselves for the long haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 10:36 PM, poppysox said: Told you so. Expand He's absolutely correct. This isn't some crazy stat-geek thing, it's common sense. A pitcher has no control over the offense that backs him. Pitching masterfully with a horse-shit offense can still quite often result in a loss or a no decision. Judging a pitcher on a wins/loss record is antiquated thinking, and thankfully most people have accepted that nowadays. 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 10:53 PM, poppysox said: Wins will always and should be one of the statistics that have value in evaluating a starting pitcher. Many pitchers have had the ability to do what needs to be done in order to win. They knew that in order to pitch 200+ innings they didn't try to strike everyone out. They knew how to pace themselves for the long haul. Expand Can’t win a game if your offense doesn’t score runs or the bullpen blows a lead. That right there proves wins are more or less meaningless for evaluating starters (although still a fun stat to cheer for). 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 10:54 PM, DirtySox said: He's absolutely correct. This isn't some crazy stat-geek thing, it's common sense. A pitcher has no control over the offense that backs him. Pitching masterfully with a horse-shit offense can still quite often result in a loss or a no decision. Judging a pitcher on a wins/loss record is antiquated thinking, and thankfully most people have accepted that nowadays. Expand Didn't say it was a crazy stat-geek thing. I make the point Wins are a meaningful stat. Can you name some 20 game winners who were horse-shit pitchers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) On 6/14/2019 at 10:58 PM, poppysox said: Didn't say it was a crazy stat-geek thing. I make the point Wins are a meaningful stat. Can you name some 20 game winners who were horse-shit pitchers? Expand Dogshit no but mediocre? Sure. J.A Happ. Definition of "mediocre starter". Career 4.14 FIP, ERA+ of 105: won 20 games with the 2016 Blue Jays. If any mediocre starter like Happ plays on a good team (Blue Jays won 89 games that year) and pitches around 200 innings he'll have a shot. Edited June 14, 2019 by chitownsportsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 10:34 PM, Sleepy Harold said: Wins are important to the team as a whole and probably mean a lot to each pitcher because they want to have a W next to their name, but evaluating pitchers based on a W/L record is ridiculous. Expand Wins aren't everything but if a pitcher wins a lot of games he is good. At the very least he gives his team a chance to win more often than not. I still want Gio to be our number 3 next season in terms of career accomplishments. I want two veteran pitchers to round out our staff, push Rodon to the bullpen, and to protect us against injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) On 6/14/2019 at 10:58 PM, poppysox said: Didn't say it was a crazy stat-geek thing. I make the point Wins are a meaningful stat. Can you name some 20 game winners who were horse-shit pitchers? Expand It's meaningful, just not as meaningful as it used to be (and rightfully so) since the baseball community has evolved and learned of better and more efficient ways to evaluate pitchers. It's not that hard, you may not like it but it's much better this way IMO. Edited June 14, 2019 by Sleepy Harold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 11:10 PM, SonofaRoache said: Wins aren't everything but if a pitcher wins a lot of games he is good. At the very least he gives his team a chance to win more often than not. I still want Gio to be our number 3 next season in terms of career accomplishments. I want two veteran pitchers to round out our staff, push Rodon to the bullpen, and to protect us against injury. Expand Yeah 100%, I could get behind that plan for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 11:12 PM, Sleepy Harold said: It's meaningful, just not as meaningful as it used to be (and rightfully so) since the baseball community has evolved and learned of better and more efficient ways to evaluate pitchers. It's not that hard, you may not like it but it's the better this way IMO. Expand Again...I didn't say I didn't like some of the new stats. I just think there is a reason the Official White Sox site shows who has the highest batting average, who has hit the most HR's and who has the most RBI's. The box score give running totals on those traditional statistics. No mention on what the individual WHIP or WAR stats are. I have yet to see an individual WAR stat and registering shock at how good or bad that player is. Without looking it up I know Alonso isn't playing for shit...I don't need to see his WAR to know that. I'll bet Giolito looks great weather I look at his 10-1 W/L record or his ERA or his WHIP. I actually think that WAR has more value in evaluating some middle of pack sort of players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 11:15 PM, Sleepy Harold said: Yeah 100%, I could get behind that plan for next season. Expand As could I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 From Twitter is appears Yoan took BP this evening and is still eyeing a return this weekend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts