pcq Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Buehrlesque said: I think we're all working overtime mentally to wishcast some formulation of Collins that is better than he actually is. A three-true-outcomes 1B (or pretty bad defensive catcher for a team that couldn't stand Narvaez) is barely above next year's crop of DFAs. I'm hoping for the best, like @bmags said, maybe a Joc Pederson type offensive peak if all goes right, but I don't think he'll be a "borderline star." Truly bad catcher after coming up under Sox tutelage? Found myself picturing Jimmie P coaching up Eloy in LF. Would pay for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 A note about Collins defensively: Baseball Prospectus does advanced catcher statistics for the minor leagues, so we have something to work with for Collins. In AA last year, he was rated at -14.5 fielding runs (driven mostly by abysmal framing), was ranked 138 out of 140 AA catchers. This year, he's at -2.0 fielding runs and is ranked 98 out of 118 AAA catchers. He ranks pretty high in terms of innings caught so on a per-inning basis his numbers look better than the ranking implies. The sample size isn't particularly large this year, but he seems to have gone from outlier bad last year to just kind of not so good this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Buehrlesque said: I think we're all working overtime mentally to wishcast some formulation of Collins that is better than he actually is. A three-true-outcomes 1B (or pretty bad defensive catcher for a team that couldn't stand Narvaez) is barely above next year's crop of DFAs. I'm hoping for the best, like @bmags said, maybe a Joc Pederson type offensive peak if all goes right, but I don't think he'll be a "borderline star." A competent DH with skills to back up catcher/1st base can be a very useful piece of a championship team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Jake said: A note about Collins defensively: Baseball Prospectus does advanced catcher statistics for the minor leagues, so we have something to work with for Collins. In AA last year, he was rated at -14.5 fielding runs (driven mostly by abysmal framing), was ranked 138 out of 140 AA catchers. This year, he's at -2.0 fielding runs and is ranked 98 out of 118 AAA catchers. He ranks pretty high in terms of innings caught so on a per-inning basis his numbers look better than the ranking implies. The sample size isn't particularly large this year, but he seems to have gone from outlier bad last year to just kind of not so good this year. What are the stats for how he calls a game, handles pitchers and directs fielders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 On 6/16/2019 at 6:16 PM, mataipaepae said: Ummm....Eloy Jimenez..... Eloy's batting average is low but we're not supposed to care about BA. He's hit a good number of homers and driving in a plethora of runs. Love Eloy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: What are the stats for how he calls a game, handles pitchers and directs fielders? Well the AAA stats for starters are abysmal so he must be worst catcher of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, bmags said: Well the AAA stats for starters are abysmal so he must be worst catcher of all time. ? Let’s just hope for the best. Luckily, the Sox will always have a fallback role for him as a DH/1B if he can’t hack it at catcher. A definite perk over the N.L. in a situation like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 21 hours ago, Jose Abreu said: Merkin has said on Twitter that Collins is here to stay, and Hahn has said many times that when a prospect is called up, he'll be getting plenty of reps. If anything, I think Castillo has played his last game for the White Sox. Maybe , I tend to think not. They've taken some chances lately with Castillo and McCann both in the lineup and realize they can't do that, 3 catchers allows them flexibility to always have one on the bench. If anyone goes it's Alonso since Collins also plays 1st base though probably not nearly as well as Alonso and they do both bat left handed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Maybe , I tend to think not. They've taken some chances lately with Castillo and McCann both in the lineup and realize they can't do that, 3 catchers allows them flexibility to always have one on the bench. If anyone goes it's Alonso since Collins also plays 1st base though probably not nearly as well as Alonso and they do both bat left handed. I think you are right and Merkin hints at it here: https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/zack-collins-promotion-white-sox “A move to the injured list for Castillo could be the roster opening for Collins. The 24-year-old left-handed hitter figures to play regularly as the White Sox first major prospect callup of the season and could see time at catcher, first base and designated hitter. That reported promotion also would likely cut into Alonso's playing time.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Maybe , I tend to think not. They've taken some chances lately with Castillo and McCann both in the lineup and realize they can't do that, 3 catchers allows them flexibility to always have one on the bench. If anyone goes it's Alonso since Collins also plays 1st base though probably not nearly as well as Alonso and they do both bat left handed. I think this is the actual intention...to carry 3 catchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: I think you are right and Merkin hints at it here: https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/zack-collins-promotion-white-sox “A move to the injured list for Castillo could be the roster opening for Collins. The 24-year-old left-handed hitter figures to play regularly as the White Sox first major prospect callup of the season and could see time at catcher, first base and designated hitter. That reported promotion also would likely cut into Alonso's playing time.” Also if there is one thing the SOx bench is missing , it's a power bat. That's why people are still pining for Palka that LH bat that could come in and hit late inning HR's and win games. Hate his overall game but he really came through in the late innings last year. I don't expect much from Collins but get him AB's and see what happens. 3 true outcomes most likely in this order most frequent., K's BB's and HR's, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Also if there is one thing the SOx bench is missing , it's a power bat. That's why people are still pining for Palka that LH bat that could come in and hit late inning HR's and win games. Hate his overall game but he really came through in the late innings last year. I don't expect much from Collins but get him AB's and see what happens. 3 true outcomes most likely in this order most frequent., K's BB's and HR's, I’m not sure how much people are pining for Palka. I think fathom or someone else was spot-on when they said that Alonso would have a rough time with the fans. Not only is he a reminder of a failed free agent offseason but he then went and had his worse season ever with the Sox. People just want him gone at this point and Palka was a viable option to replace him. And no one should want to see Palka over Collins. Collins can have a future. Palka can only DH so he’s limited to half of MLB teams and is already getting a bit long in the tooth. Edited June 18, 2019 by Moan4Yoan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: I’m not sure how much people are pining for Palka. I think fathom or someone else was spot-on when they said that Alonso would have a rough time with the fans. Not only is he a reminder of a failed free agent offseason but he then went and had his worse season ever with the Sox. People just want him gone at this point and Palka was a viable option to replace him. And no one should want to see Palka over Collins. Collins can have a future. Palka can only DH so he’s limited to half of MLB teams and is already getting a bit long in the tooth. Oh I'm not saying I would've brought Palka up over Collins but people still like Palka or at least his late inning heroics and he has done things in MLB that Collins may never do,but we do like to see what we have and even if he can't hit he can hit HR's and draw walks hopefully. He may get the Moncada treatment so I expect a lot of K's looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Oh I'm not saying I would've brought Palka up over Collins but people still like Palka or at least his late inning heroics and he has done things in MLB that Collins may never do,but we do like to see what we have and even if he can't hit he can hit HR's and draw walks hopefully. He may get the Moncada treatment so I expect a lot of K's looking. Yeah, Palka would be a decent bench bat if he could field OF and 1B at least decently well but he can’t. I do have some fear that Collins will look like Josh Fields did against decent fastballs, where it looked like he had no chance to hit them. But even he managed to have a Palka-esque season in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said: Yeah, Palka would be a decent bench bat if he could field OF and 1B at least decently well but he can’t. I do have some fear that Collins will look like Josh Fields did against decent fastballs, where it looked like he had no chance to hit them. But even he managed to have a Palka-esque season in his career. His swing is quite long. I fear the same as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: Yeah, Palka would be a decent bench bat if he could field OF and 1B at least decently well but he can’t. I do have some fear that Collins will look like Josh Fields did against decent fastballs, where it looked like he had no chance to hit them. But even he managed to have a Palka-esque season in his career. I'm trying unsuccessfully so far to find a spray chart on Collins . I'd tell him to be looking 1st pitch fastball and be ready to hit it since pitchers know he looks at a lot of pitches and K's a lot and will be looking to get ahead in the count . Let the pitchers know they just can't lay that1st pitch fastball in there. Not sure how many of his HR's are oppo so I don't know yet if he's going to see a lot of sliders down and in or they will pitch him away which is why I wanted to find his spray chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 If he gets a hit that beats the Cubs he will have a place in White Sox fans hearts for life. Go Sox! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, poppysox said: If he gets a hit that beats the Cubs he will have a place in White Sox fans hearts for life. Go Sox! Gonna be hard for him with Hamels and Lester expected to start. I'd be surprised if we see him starting either game against the Cubs lefties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Maybe they're anticipating him starting well or showing promise so they can trade him for a good SP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Maybe they're anticipating him starting well or showing promise so they can trade him for a good SP For a team that is devoid of catching prospects and limited options available on the FA market (Grandal), I don’t think you trade Collins for a starter unless you have no faith in him. McCann and Collins may be the start of filling the position ever since AJP left. Edited June 18, 2019 by Moan4Yoan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 30 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: Gonna be hard for him with Hamels and Lester expected to start. I'd be surprised if we see him starting either game against the Cubs lefties. Doesn't need to start to get a hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 On 6/16/2019 at 7:20 PM, mataipaepae said: Yeah.....3rd on the team with 11 homers in his first stint and missed a couple weeks. Has multiple homerun games already too He has a -0.3 WAR and 105 OPS+. He's had a nice couple of weeks. A handful of big games where his talent really shined through. However, to suggest he's come up "raking" is rather disingenuous. As is using the fact that he's 3rd on a bottom 10 offense in HR's. Eloy's raw talent is super exciting and I cannot wait to see where he's at by season's end. However, if this is the finished product - we would all rightfully call him a bust. So, raking? Not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 3 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: Gonna be hard for him with Hamels and Lester expected to start. I'd be surprised if we see him starting either game against the Cubs lefties. Yeah, I expect a couple of later pinch hit appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradMc Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) On 6/16/2019 at 6:26 PM, mataipaepae said: Huh he said power. I would say the power has been good. And we haven't even hit the all star break yet and you can see the average raising every week. Wilson Contreras was brought up and made an immediate impact with his glove and bat and has been doing so ever since. A catcher of that quality should be high priority for the White Sox. We don't need another DH. We need more guys on this roster that can get it done from both an offensive and defensive perspective. Edited June 18, 2019 by GradMc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 We talking about the same Wilson Contreras? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.