JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Just now, BackDoorBreach said: The Sox have 25 million on the books next year and Tim Anderson and Eloy for 2021. They could have signed Harper, Manny, Cole, Wheeler, and any combination of RP and been fine. Manny has also not dropped off significantly by any stretch. Eloy - $2.3M, TA - $4M, Herrera - $8.5M, Abreu - $10M (?), Colome - $10M (?), McCann - $6M (?), Garcia - $4M (?), 18 players on league min or close to it - $11M That’s $56M with 5 spots reserved for vets. Add in two frontline starting pitchers is another $40M, two high leverage relievers is another $20M, and one position player vet is another $5M. Altogether that’s $121M. Seems like a reasonable payroll. Not sure jerry would be willing to push that to $150M with either Machado or Harper also included. Seems unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: Nick Madrigal is a prospect with no power. Manny Machado is an All Star and GG fielder. How much “power” did Dustin Pedroia have at age 22? How many prospects have Madrigal’s hit tool, like not just currently but in the last decade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: How much “power” did Dustin Pedroia have at age 22? How many prospects have Madrigal’s hit tool, like not just currently but in the last decade? So your argument is that Machado, a guy who we all know is a star, isn’t worth $30 million a year. However, we should all believe that Madrigal will develop power just because Dustin Pedroia did? Wow. Our opinion on Machado is based on factual statistics. Yours is based on hope that Madrigal turns into Pedroia. Edited June 28, 2019 by Moan4Yoan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: You haven’t been paying attention then. The guy has raised his OPS by 100 points in a matter of weeks. He could easily be back up to .900+ OPS on a few more weeks. And the Sox aren’t signing Cole so keep dreaming. Who was the last pitcher the Sox signed for 6+ years and $140+ million? And he could easily be below 800 by the end of the season too. He’s been hot lately, yes, but let’s see if it keeps up. yes, I’d like for them to sign Cole but signing two solid starters like Bumgarner and Wheeler could be just as beneficial over the next few years. Bottom line, the offense looks good with the chance to be great with minimal additions. The starting pitching staff looks like a black hole at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 19 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: Nick Madrigal is a prospect with no power. Manny Machado is an All Star and GG fielder. Madrigal will be playing winning baseball when Machado has hung em up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said: So your argument is that Machado, a guy who we all know is a star, isn’t worth $30 million a year. However, we should all believe that Madrigal will develop power just because Dustin Pedroia did? Wow. Our opinion is based on factual stats. Yours is based on hope that Madrigal turns into Pedroia. Madrigal is 2018 Kinsler already with no significant increase in power. Upper 600s OPS with great defense and good baserunning. That’s a 2 WAR player as is. With a slight uptick in power he’s a 3-4 WAR guy. All while making league min for several years. After Cease, who has that type of upside as a starting pitcher in the coming years that’s currently in the Sox minor league system? It’s obvious the money needs to be spent on pitching. Not sure how you can’t see how that’s a more productive use of their financial resources over the next several years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 The Sox could have had both Machado and Madrigal in their lineup so why are we comparing the two anyways? Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Madrigal is 2018 Kinsler already with no significant increase in power. Upper 600s OPS with great defense and good baserunning. That’s a 2 WAR player as is. With a slight uptick in power he’s a 3-4 WAR guy. All while making league min for several years. After Cease, who has that type of upside as a starting pitcher in the coming years that’s currently in the Sox minor league system? It’s obvious the money needs to be spent on pitching. Not sure how you can’t see how that’s a more productive use of their financial resources over the next several years? They have no real money comitted to anybody why don't you understand this? They could have Machado and Cole/Wheeler/whoever else they want. Machado is going to end the year close to 5 WAR again lol. He is absolutely worth 30 mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: The Sox could have had both Machado and Madrigal in their lineup so why are we comparing the two anyways? Am I missing something? How so? You don’t move Madrigal off 2b. Moncada has been very good at 3b and even with the errors I take TA over Manny defensively at SS. Again, $30 a year better spent on pitching upgrades. What’s your solution to address the pitching staff? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said: They have no real money comitted to anybody why don't you understand this? They could have Machado and Cole/Wheeler/whoever else they want. Machado is going to end the year close to 5 WAR again lol. He is absolutely worth 30 mil. I laid it out in a previous post. Do you think Jerry is willing to spend $140-150M next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: I laid it out in a previous post. Do you think Jerry is willing to spend $140-150M next year? You have Jose Abreu, Colome, Herrera, and McCann factored in. The only one of those that might be here in 2 years is McCann. They have no money on the books dude. They have played with top 10 salary rosters fairly recently with shit teams. Edited June 28, 2019 by BackDoorBreach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/payroll/2020/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: You have Jose Abreu, Colome, Herrera, and McCann factored in. The only one of those that might be hete in 2 years is McCann. They have no money on the books dude. They have played with top 10 salary rosters fairly recently with shit teams. All four guys will be back next year most likely. Maybe they trade Colome before next season but I doubt it. My numbers were looking at 2020 payroll. Who knows where they will stand with payroll after that but if they’re not here then they need to be replaced, especially considering 3/4 have been very productive players since they’ve been in a Sox uniform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, poppysox said: Madrigal will be playing winning baseball when Machado has hung em up. Something no one will remember you said in 10 years or whatever it takes to prove you right or wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Something no one will remember you said in 10 years or whatever it takes to prove you right or wrong. You are right...in 10 years no one will remember which of us is right about Moncada & Madrigal. I have been one of Madrigals biggest supporters on this sight. You tend to be Mr. negative about most things. These are just opinions we have. No one is right or wrong about anything we discuss. Just because you like to be more confrontational doesn't make you any more right in your opinions than anyone else. JUST OPINIONS.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 How did a thread about McCann being a finalist for starting the all star game devolve into yet another thread about how the Sox missed out on Machado and Harper? Back to topic: I think we all knew Sanchez would get the most votes, but it's still disappointing. McCann should still make the all star game; he definitely deserves it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 9 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: How so? You don’t move Madrigal off 2b. Moncada has been very good at 3b and even with the errors I take TA over Manny defensively at SS. Again, $30 a year better spent on pitching upgrades. What’s your solution to address the pitching staff? Sign Machado and Moncada makes ASG at second base. Trade Madrigal in a package for high end pitcher on mediocre to bad team. Sign Bum or Stras. Machado, Anderson, Moncada. Top end starter from trade and Bum or Stras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 1 hour ago, poppysox said: You are right...in 10 years no one will remember which of us is right about Moncada & Madrigal. I have been one of Madrigals biggest supporters on this sight. You tend to be Mr. negative about most things. These are just opinions we have. No one is right or wrong about anything we discuss. Just because you like to be more confrontational doesn't make you any more right in your opinions than anyone else. JUST OPINIONS.? I don't think many disagree that Madrigal will be awesome, it's just that we could have constructed a better roster by signing Manny and trading him for a front line starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 9 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: I laid it out in a previous post. Do you think Jerry is willing to spend $140-150M next year? He very well should as he's been saving money and the team can compete next year. 140 million would put him at league average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Buffalo Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 10 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: How much “power” did Dustin Pedroia have at age 22? How many prospects have Madrigal’s hit tool, like not just currently but in the last decade? Dustin PEDroia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 36 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: He very well should as he's been saving money and the team can compete next year. 140 million would put him at league average. Jerry's 83 years old and shows no signs of selling before his death. I believe I read there are estate tax reasons which make it foolish to sell. My point is it's foolish to think Jerry isn't a die hard fan just like any of us. I believe he will spend the money as it's his last chance to build a lasting dynasty type team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 47 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: I don't think many disagree that Madrigal will be awesome, it's just that we could have constructed a better roster by signing Manny and trading him for a front line starter. It's very difficult to build a winning roster when you give 20% of your resources to one player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 19 minutes ago, poppysox said: It's very difficult to build a winning roster when you give 20% of your resources to one player. Not when all of your good players are here the next 4 to 8 years on first contracts. If we were concerned about this problem, we could have front loaded his contract and gave him a 5th year opt out. The two benefits are if he is good or decides to opt in, his annual salary would be much lower when we need to pay other guys. If he opts out because the salary is lower the last 5 years, we don't have to pursue him. If he opts out and we want him, we can just offer a good bid. We were set up where we could offer him a big deal and pay to get a quality pitcher as well. The rest of the roster would have just been fine tuning with guys looking to prove themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 38 minutes ago, poppysox said: It's very difficult to build a winning roster when you give 20% of your resources to one player. The 2018 Boston Red Sox gave 22.86% of their payroll to Rusney Castillo, Hanley Ramirez, and Pablo Sandoval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 40 minutes ago, poppysox said: It's very difficult to build a winning roster when you give 20% of your resources to one player. We don't have any money on the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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