yesterday333 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 14 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Fair enough. But "Slim" Jake Burger's [snicker] selection as a 1st round pick occurred 6 months AFTER Sale was traded, and almost 11 months AFTER the "Mired in Mediocrity" presser. He's easily a "post tank pick," and most likely, a bad one at that. But, a bad draft pick is what happens when a team refuses to fire front office types that have been BEGGING to be fired for years, due to their stupidity, While it was after the rebuild started, it was not a pick that was moved up by "tanking." They picked at 11. The next 2 drafts we picked in the top 5. There is clearly a difference in talent from a top 5 pick and pick 11, especially in Burgers draft when the talent dropped off at 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, mqr said: Jake Burger was the result of a team that still had Chris Sale, Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton on it. Alex Faedo is like the only guy picked after Burger that is worth anything at all. Evan White says hello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) The weird part is why Hahn still gave in on the trade after pushback from Paddy and Tatis, Jr. The biggest thing with kids at ages 14-17 is projection. They were warned by Tatis’ father that he was still not done growing...maybe they assumed that meant he would lose speed instead of gaining it and have to be moved off of SS to another position. Of course, one could argue that his light power at the time would only increase with more height/bigger frame and adding muscle...which is usually the case when still physically maturing kids hit stateside. He’s now one of the arguably 3-5 fastest base runners in MLB at 6’3 1/2” and got his 13th steal on what amounted to a pitchout to Buster Posey last night. He has now also scored twice from third on short pop ups to 2B...the most recent infielder was so rattled that the throw wasn’t even close. Not to mention scoring all the way from second on an out recorded at 1B and the LUIS Robert highlight of scoring from SECOND on a deep outfield flyout. He also had to at the very least have possessed above average arm strength, because he has made 360 degree throws from SS to first in the last week at 93.7 and 94.0, the two hardest of any SS in MLB this year. In fact, if you want to pick on one of his bad habits, it’s now waiting a beat or two long like Shawon Dunston used to do in order to make the out at first more dramatic/highlight reel-worthy. So you had a still-growing SS who already flashed the three most important qualities of a quality up the middle player...speed, throwing arm and raw fielding ability. To trade that player at age 17 before you discover what you really have, knowing his bloodlines, and knowing one of the most knowledgeable GMs about Latin American talent is already insisting on that specific player...well, it should have sent up alarm bells up and down every level of the organization that they were in the process of being outscouted on their own player and that Paddy’s original scouting assessment on Tatis was being overrun by the immediacy of trying to compete in 2016 with half a roster and a foundering manager. Edited July 2, 2019 by caulfield12 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 ^ this does not sound like the acceptance phase. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 In some ways, maybe the most impressive play of his short career...extricating himself from a pickoff and getting back safely to first. https://www.mlb.com/video/tatis-jr-s-acrobatic-slide Also, first four hit game...about the only negative is that he still hasn’t had his first walk-off RBI...struck out when he had that opportunity in the bottom of the 9th yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Buffalo Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Obviously, the FO should know more than fans on Soxtalk, but both when the trade was rumored and after it was made, the vast majority of fans were more anti-Shields than mad about Tatis, Jr. being included. I read the first 20 pages of this thread and skimmed the next 10 or so. Interesting read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Middle Buffalo said: Obviously, the FO should know more than fans on Soxtalk, but both when the trade was rumored and after it was made, the vast majority of fans were more anti-Shields than mad about Tatis, Jr. being included. Understandable. Fans don't know most of the prospects, particularly the unranked ones. But it sure as heck is the front office's job to know. Shields had given up 10 runs in 3 innings in his last start before the trade (in Seattle). I still wonder which scout gave the "thumbs up" after seeing that performance....if they even bothered to scout it. The Sox weren't going anywhere. That trade was madness. And for the coup de grace, Hahn drafted a college reliever in round 1 just a week or so later. I'll get over it when either the Sox win a pennant or Rick Hahn hits the road. Edited July 16, 2019 by GreenSox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Buffalo Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Actually, I shouldn't have said the vast majority of fans were upset about acquiring Shields. The vast majority of fans who were upset about the trade were upset that it was for Shields. A good amount of people were actually in favor of the trade. Some went as far as to say Tatis, Jr. wouldn't amount to anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Middle Buffalo said: Actually, I shouldn't have said the vast majority of fans were upset about acquiring Shields. The vast majority of fans who were upset about the trade were upset that it was for Shields. A good amount of people were actually in favor of the trade. Some went as far as to say Tatis, Jr. wouldn't amount to anything. Fans don’t make trades so none of this really matters. Sox management is supposed to recognize talent and decides on who to keep and who to trade, not the fans. When it comes to Tatis Jr., the Sox obviously did a good job recognizing his talent enough to sign him but they failed miserably at projecting his future. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have traded him for an aging broken down starter. Tatis is hitting .339 with a 1.021 OPS and 14 HR and 14 SB at the age of 20. Sox fans didn’t choose to trade for Shields but we now get to miss out on a star shortstop and watch him excel with another team for years to come. Hahn got absolutely pantsed/fleeced in the trade. The irony is that last offseason, he worked so hard to sign a player in Machado that he already foolishly gave away in Tatis Jr. without the $300 million dollar price tag. Edited July 16, 2019 by Moan4Yoan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 6 hours ago, Middle Buffalo said: Obviously, the FO should know more than fans on Soxtalk, but both when the trade was rumored and after it was made, the vast majority of fans were more anti-Shields than mad about Tatis, Jr. being included. I read the first 20 pages of this thread and skimmed the next 10 or so. Interesting read. A lot of fans even dismissed the idea of Tatis Jr. being valuable. Very interesting read, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flythesock Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 This is already one of the worst trades in baseball history. For all the reasons you all know. I think I’ll reach acceptance level when we start winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flythesock Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/1/2019 at 9:42 AM, bighurt574 said: Saying HOF talent isn't necessarily the same as saying he'll make it, but I'll take my chances on a 20-year-old putting up his kind of numbers, at a premium position no less. Wasn't there an article about that in the last year or so on the history of these uber prospects making debuts as young ages? Can't seem to find it, but I believe the track record is actually pretty impressive. I remember that article. Under-21 players who perform at this level are virtually never flukes and the majority turn into superstars and Hall of Famers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I don't obsess on this trade bad as it was. For me, the worse thing is a decade where the team has eight losing seasons and no playoff appearances. That is something to obsess about. And I don't want to hear what great young talent the rebuild is producing. Losing just plain sucks. This FO needs to do something this offseason. The next decade needs to be a whole lot better than this. They can start with getting an offense that can put the ball in play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt574 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 5 hours ago, Flythesock said: I remember that article. Under-21 players who perform at this level are virtually never flukes and the majority turn into superstars and Hall of Famers. Yeah, can anyone dig that out? Still can't seem to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 23 hours ago, GreenSox said: Understandable. Fans don't know most of the prospects, particularly the unranked ones. But it sure as heck is the front office's job to know. Shields had given up 10 runs in 3 innings in his last start before the trade (in Seattle). I still wonder which scout gave the "thumbs up" after seeing that performance....if they even bothered to scout it. The Sox weren't going anywhere. That trade was madness. And for the coup de grace, Hahn drafted a college reliever in round 1 just a week or so later. I'll get over it when either the Sox win a pennant or Rick Hahn hits the road. This. I'd love to hear KW, JR, or whoever the fuck thought that shitty team/shitty roster/shitty manager had a fucking snowball's chance in hell explain exactly WTF they were [snicker] "thinking." I'm still stunned that the overwhelming majority of those same imbeciles are still in charge of this team today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Tatis Jr. is human after all. 0 for his last 9, six strikeouts, two careless throwing errors (#11&12).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Discuss the Shields and Tatis trade. If this thread is simply bumped every time he has a good day, we have multiple Tatis threads in Diamond Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Quin said: Discuss the Shields and Tatis trade. If this thread is simply bumped every time he has a good day, we have multiple Tatis threads in Diamond Club. Someone wrote he signed for $800,000. It was actually $700k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I hope he flames out HARD. Unlikely, but it is the only way I'll feel better about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 27 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Someone wrote he signed for $800,000. It was actually $700k. Just now, ron883 said: I hope he flames out HARD. Unlikely, but it is the only way I'll feel better about this Ok. Take TatisTalk to Diamond Club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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