2019-2020 Official NBA Thread

[Chisoxfn]

9 hours ago, bmags said:

Boylen has to go. But this part 1 of the rebuild was a failure. God - please just give us two years of Jerry West? 

I still go back to you don’t trade superstars (ie Butler). 

[Chisoxfn]

If Mark is hurt, they need to sit him. If he isn’t, he needs to be coming off bench. His play is absolutely awful. Awful. Advanced metrics back it. Hard to overcome such non existent play. No idea what happened but what a ducking dud. Literally something has to be wrong with him...he doesn’t look like he is even trying. 
 

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

I still go back to you don’t trade superstars (ie Butler). 

He'd have left this offseason for nothing. 

[SleepyWhiteSox]

On 11/28/2019 at 5:42 PM, Chisoxfn said:

If Mark is hurt, they need to sit him. If he isn’t, he needs to be coming off bench. His play is absolutely awful. Awful. Advanced metrics back it. Hard to overcome such non existent play. No idea what happened but what a ducking dud. Literally something has to be wrong with him...he doesn’t look like he is even trying. 
 

The atrocious coaching plays a part

[Kyyle23]

If you build it they will come ?

[Kyyle23]

 

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

 

Lol...what a god forsaken franchise.

[BigHurt3515]

On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 3:08 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol...what a god forsaken franchise.

I just want everyone fired and start fresh. But we all know Jerry isn't letting that happen

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

This year has just been an abortion.

They run a 5 out offense with poor shooters and two bigs that were supposed to be able to spread the floor, but can't.

They drafted a big with a decent mid-range game, but they refuse to allow him to take anything that could be considered mid-range (I don't hate this, but at the same time there are stats that support the mid-range game for certain big men as they are efficient enough to execute it)

Their defensive sets, I don't really even think there's enough time to critique everything wrong with this side of the ball.

The Bulls still believe archaic nonsense such as three pointers lead to fast break points; when in fact, it's the exact opposite - shots in the paint lead to fast break opportunities. 

They are the laziest and most disorganized fastbreak team in the NBA - both defensively and offensively. 

They somehow LEAD the NBA in shots at the rim, while also being dead last at conversion rate - this is quite the accomplishment, and not something you see everyday. Their entire offense collapses on the paint after nearly every single shot up - which destroys their fast break defense. Their defense grades out poorly but it's actually EVEN worse than you think. They've actually been the luckiest team in the NBA when it comes to outcomes against; their guards keep no one in front of them, and they allow the most shots at the basket in the NBA but they have been lucky and teams haven't converted at the expected rate.

Lavine worked all off-season on his defense and he's somehow worse. His defensive awareness looks like Ben Gordon 2.0. He goes under on shooters, while fighting over on guys that can get by him into the paint. He doesn't rotate with the ball, and he gives way to "rim protectors" that simply don't exist far too frequently. You'd think with his defensive style he'd be great on the fast break going the other way, but he actually tends to crash the glass - as do the other guards - which doesn't have anyone leaking out.

Boylen is a disaster because he's simply teaching systems he's seen work elsewhere with entirely different personnel. His rotations are absolutely atrocious - he doesn't understand the concept of match-up basketball. 

This team needs to blow it up again. At least their bad enough that they're no longer in basketball hell.

[bmags]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This year has just been an abortion.

They run a 5 out offense with poor shooters and two bigs that were supposed to be able to spread the floor, but can't.

They drafted a big with a decent mid-range game, but they refuse to allow him to take anything that could be considered mid-range (I don't hate this, but at the same time there are stats that support the mid-range game for certain big men as they are efficient enough to execute it)

Their defensive sets, I don't really even think there's enough time to critique everything wrong with this side of the ball.

The Bulls still believe archaic nonsense such as three pointers lead to fast break points; when in fact, it's the exact opposite - shots in the paint lead to fast break opportunities. 

They are the laziest and most disorganized fastbreak team in the NBA - both defensively and offensively. 

They somehow LEAD the NBA in shots at the rim, while also being dead last at conversion rate - this is quite the accomplishment, and not something you see everyday. Their entire offense collapses on the paint after nearly every single shot up - which destroys their fast break defense. Their defense grades out poorly but it's actually EVEN worse than you think. They've actually been the luckiest team in the NBA when it comes to outcomes against; their guards keep no one in front of them, and they allow the most shots at the basket in the NBA but they have been lucky and teams haven't converted at the expected rate.

Lavine worked all off-season on his defense and he's somehow worse. His defensive awareness looks like Ben Gordon 2.0. He goes under on shooters, while fighting over on guys that can get by him into the paint. He doesn't rotate with the ball, and he gives way to "rim protectors" that simply don't exist far too frequently. You'd think with his defensive style he'd be great on the fast break going the other way, but he actually tends to crash the glass - as do the other guards - which doesn't have anyone leaking out.

Boylen is a disaster because he's simply teaching systems he's seen work elsewhere with entirely different personnel. His rotations are absolutely atrocious - he doesn't understand the concept of match-up basketball. 

This team needs to blow it up again. At least their bad enough that they're no longer in basketball hell.

Yes all of this is correct. The shots around the rim is wild just because watching you wouldn't guess they are getting that many shots. A lot are falling away from the rim or pretty wild shots. 

Now, who is decent at finishing around the rim? Thad young, who is receiving the fewest minutes since his rookie year. 

And if those minutes are going to development, it's hard to see that development in this system.

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

17 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yes all of this is correct. The shots around the rim is wild just because watching you wouldn't guess they are getting that many shots. A lot are falling away from the rim or pretty wild shots. 

Now, who is decent at finishing around the rim? Thad young, who is receiving the fewest minutes since his rookie year. 

And if those minutes are going to development, it's hard to see that development in this system.

 

Yes, they're "developing" players in a system that does not fit them. It's a great strategy. 

Boylen isn't going anywhere though. Amazing the coaches this team has thrown out there recently; Vinnie, Boylen and Hoiberg are just embarrassingly bad - to a level most don't understand.

Hoiberg wasn't even a candidate for any other team - he wasn't one of the 10 best coaches in the college game, but he was friends with Gar so he got the job. Vinnie was about as ready as a 12 year old making his first move on a chick. Boylen... he's not even the best Jim Boylen coaching basketball for god sakes.

[bmags]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes, they're "developing" players in a system that does not fit them. It's a great strategy. 

Boylen isn't going anywhere though. Amazing the coaches this team has thrown out there recently; Vinnie, Boylen and Hoiberg are just embarrassingly bad - to a level most don't understand.

Hoiberg wasn't even a candidate for any other team - he wasn't one of the 10 best coaches in the college game, but he was friends with Gar so he got the job. Vinnie was about as ready as a 12 year old making his first move on a chick. Boylen... he's not even the best Jim Boylen coaching basketball for god sakes.

Regardless, and I did think fred was a lightweight, he deserved to be able to coach the team with healthy players last year. The crap they threw at him to make it work was ridiculous, and boylen came in and was allowed to sit parker and they removed the redundancies with portis and gave him a wing. He deserved a chance to show his system with that roster.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

Regardless, and I did think fred was a lightweight, he deserved to be able to coach the team with healthy players last year. The crap they threw at him to make it work was ridiculous, and boylen came in and was allowed to sit parker and they removed the redundancies with portis and gave him a wing. He deserved a chance to show his system with that roster.

I get it, but Fred didn't really have a system. There was nothing unique about his offense. He ran a bunch of drags with limited shooters (terrible) and he cleared the paint for penetrating guards that didn't really exist.

His sets had no fluidity to them - his offense involved perimeter rotations with false pass throughs in the paint constantly. With Rose, MAYBE you could run a spread offense fueled by drags because he could get out on the break so fast.... but the Bulls weren't even "great" in transition when their entire offense was predicated on transitions and drags. That's one broken system. His offense was reliant on constant switching - which does not happen nearly as frequently in the NBA as you'll see in college - to create mismatches off his high screens for Rose or whoever was running PG. 

Running a bunch of wing weaves with no great shooters just allows defenders to sag down low and double down on the penetrating guard. You didn't even need to shut off both corners because the Bulls didn't have the shooters there to keep the spacing as you'd like in that offensive set.

Hoiberg was awful. I was critical of his offenses in college whenever he ran into a team that had two wings athletic enough to guard inside and out - every team in the NBA has that athleticism, and it made Hoibergs offense look like a kid drew it up.

[Chisox378]

Bulls playing well vs. Kings in this first half!

[SoxAce]

Much better effort by Markkanen. 

[Chisoxfn]

Shocking Stat of the Day. Bulls are 12th in the NBA in defense.  I still say this whole season comes down to Lauri being a complete joke.  I can only hope injuries have been the brunt cause of it (and with that the case, I have no idea why they haven't rested him). I still say this team will trend positively over the season and improve. That said, they obviously still lack star talent (and a lot), which means they need to get lucky with lottery balls or make a MAJOR trade (which requires teams to like our assets + a player to want to come here).   

Lavine with 28 points on 13 shots is nice.  If they get the Mark from the last 2 years back, plus a healthy OPJ, I think you see this team play slightly above .500 ball for a good chunk of the season (which would be HUGE progress).  

[bmags]

2 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

Shocking Stat of the Day. Bulls are 12th in the NBA in defense.  I still say this whole season comes down to Lauri being a complete joke.  I can only hope injuries have been the brunt cause of it (and with that the case, I have no idea why they haven't rested him). I still say this team will trend positively over the season and improve. That said, they obviously still lack star talent (and a lot), which means they need to get lucky with lottery balls or make a MAJOR trade (which requires teams to like our assets + a player to want to come here).   

Lavine with 28 points on 13 shots is nice.  If they get the Mark from the last 2 years back, plus a healthy OPJ, I think you see this team play slightly above .500 ball for a good chunk of the season (which would be HUGE progress).  

I can tell you that stat is not indicative of the bulls D, this is a good indicator:

Why does it get so much worse? It's very easy to break down. As teams put their closing line-ups in, they need only minimal patience to get past the first rotation to get easy baskets.

These 4th quarter collapses aren't a coincidence, and it's not about experience. A lot of teams with good players can go into cruise control. We saw it in portland as lilliard was just facilitating all night. They didn't end up needing him, if they did it wouldn't have been hard to destroy the bulls in the 4th.

[Chisoxfn]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

I can tell you that stat is not indicative of the bulls D, this is a good indicator:

Why does it get so much worse? It's very easy to break down. As teams put their closing line-ups in, they need only minimal patience to get past the first rotation to get easy baskets.

These 4th quarter collapses aren't a coincidence, and it's not about experience. A lot of teams with good players can go into cruise control. We saw it in portland as lilliard was just facilitating all night. They didn't end up needing him, if they did it wouldn't have been hard to destroy the bulls in the 4th.

I can't explain why the team has had so many collapses.  They have collapsed against both good and bad teams, so to me it is less about an elite team ignoring the Bulls and turning it on in the 4th quarter (Portland has not been a good enough team this year to do that).  So I actually think this is an interesting, but still statistically limiting argument. I do know the Bulls have missed a shit ton of open and good looks.  I know they have had streaks of dominance (in quite a few games to be honest), but very few, if any complete games. Some of that I think comes with being a young team.  People always ignore how statistically it is literally damn near impossible to win as a YOUNG team in the NBA.  While we thought Thaddeus and Santo would help with that, the reality is Lauri has been so fucking bad (like literally fucking beyond worthless), that it is very difficult to overcome long stretches where your so called best player is an UTTER TURD.  I can't even explain how fucking bad he is (and I was always a Lauri supporter).  The loss of Porter (from a stability perspective) was huge and he wasn't even that good this season (when he did play...albeit he was rounding in to form right when he got hurt).

I think a lot of this is the team doesn't know its identity enough yet and with all of the things that have went wrong, they kind of assume the worse and well, it basically puts Lavine on an island (cause he's the only guy who can create...but when he's on an island he doesn't play his best basketball).  But by the 4th quarter, Lauri is usually well onto his way of putting up a worthless effort (and the more he stinks offensively...the more he stops caring on both sides of the ball). If you can't tell...Lauri is an unmitigated disaster this season.    

[bmags]

Just now, Chisoxfn said:

I can't explain why the team has had so many collapses.  They have collapsed against both good and bad teams, so to me it is less about an elite team ignoring the Bulls and turning it on in the 4th quarter (Portland has not been a good enough team this year to do that).  So I actually think this is an interesting, but still statistically limiting argument. I do know the Bulls have missed a shit ton of open and good looks.  I know they have had streaks of dominance (in quite a few games to be honest), but very few, if any complete games. Some of that I think comes with being a young team.  People always ignore how statistically it is literally damn near impossible to win as a YOUNG team in the NBA.  While we thought Thaddeus and Santo would help with that, the reality is Lauri has been so fucking bad (like literally fucking beyond worthless), that it is very difficult to overcome long stretches where your so called best player is an UTTER TURD.  I can't even explain how fucking bad he is (and I was always a Lauri supporter).  The loss of Porter (from a stability perspective) was huge and he wasn't even that good this season (when he did play...albeit he was rounding in to form right when he got hurt).

I think a lot of this is the team doesn't know its identity enough yet and with all of the things that have went wrong, they kind of assume the worse and well, it basically puts Lavine on an island (cause he's the only guy who can create...but when he's on an island he doesn't play his best basketball).  But by the 4th quarter, Lauri is usually well onto his way of putting up a worthless effort (and the more he stinks offensively...the more he stops caring on both sides of the ball). If you can't tell...Lauri is an unmitigated disaster this season.    

There is too much wrong with this team to pinpoint on just lauri. Almost every player is put in a position outside their strengths. Their defensive strategy is horrendous for a young team, especially in the modern nba, and they can't execute, and they can't shoot from three or make it around the rim. Lauri is the best representation of all of that failure but he is not the only one. Their rotations are also just horrendous, and they will blame it all on porter.

They have had one of the easiest scheduels in the league to date, and have one of the worst records. It is not because they are young. It is year 3 of the rebuild, the coaching is terrible, the talent is not good enough, and they don't develop. And they have not gotten remotely lucky. 

[Chisox378]

Bulls Grizzlies tonight, lets get em!

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

The Bulls have not been been an average defensive team; they've actually been one of the three worst defensive teams in the NBA they just have been incredibly lucky because their competition has been shit and their expected numbers against are much worse than their actual so far. 

[Chisox378]

If Levine and Markannan can step up and be leaders, this team may make the playoffs. We dearly need some players to step up and be leaders.

[Chisox378]

Zach Lavine won this game for them.  After leading by 22, Memphis cuts lead to 1 with 4 minutes left in game and Zach silences them with 2 straight threes! Go Bulls!

[Chisoxfn]

12 minutes ago, Chisox378 said:

Zach Lavine won this game for them.  After leading by 22, Memphis cuts lead to 1 with 4 minutes left in game and Zach silences them with 2 straight threes! Go Bulls!

IT blows my mind how this team can build such big leads, only to see them evaporate so badly. I know someone posted a couple days ago it was good teams and players coasting and it was more the Bulls suck, but I don't buy that. There is something going on with that and Memphis had zero reason to coast, nor are they any good...this team is just young and lacks consistency and doesn't know how to put teams away (after getting up on them).  I am on record as saying they trend up and I still think they are in the conversation for a back end playoff spot by the end of the year (doesn't mean i'm thrilled about their long term prognosis though - as they got no one, other than Lavine who has the physical capabilities to be a star).  

[Chisox378]

Just now, Chisoxfn said:

IT blows my mind how this team can build such big leads, only to see them evaporate so badly. I know someone posted a couple days ago it was good teams and players coasting and it was more the Bulls suck, but I don't buy that. There is something going on with that and Memphis had zero reason to coast, nor are they any good...this team is just young and lacks consistency and doesn't know how to put teams away (after getting up on them).  I am on record as saying they trend up and I still think they are in the conversation for a back end playoff spot by the end of the year.  

Good points. They got sloppy when they were up, so yes, they couldn't put them away, hope they work on that. Me too, I hope they can make a back end playoff spot.