Balta1701 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 9 minutes ago, bmags said: It's not really the same question anymore because it isn't even about being able to guard the 4s as much as how easy it is for teams to get favorable mismatches. Even if Kukoc was overpowered he at least had length. Length is still a big asset, but if you aren't quick enough to close out with it or keep a player from driving past you it's not that helpful. OTOH Kukoc was really smart as all the bulls were, so he again would be a good player. I just don't think he'd be the best player on a team very often. He'd almost certainly be the best player on the bulls right now though. Obviously there's some guys (DRose 2010) that will be too quick for him, but how quick was he on a closeout? I don't recall that being the sort of thing defenses were even trying to do back in those days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Scottie Pippen told Kukoc he couldn't guard a chair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 26 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Obviously there's some guys (DRose 2010) that will be too quick for him, but how quick was he on a closeout? I don't recall that being the sort of thing defenses were even trying to do back in those days. You think the only player too quick for Kukoc is 2010 Derrick Rose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 I don't know that he would be a great defender today, but Toni wasn't built to play the physical 80's/90's basketball game. He was made for 2020 NBA basketball. He was extremely long, and had a beautiful outside game. His length would let him guard space instead of a post up 4 much better. His ability to recover would be way better than his ability to play the post defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 19 minutes ago, bmags said: You think the only player too quick for Kukoc is 2010 Derrick Rose? LOL no that was the example of the fastest player I've ever seen. He doesn't have to defend him well, no human could. He has to switch and move adequately on a closeout and I'm wondering whether you think he couldn't do that either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: LOL no that was the example of the fastest player I've ever seen. He doesn't have to defend him well, no human could. He has to switch and move adequately on a closeout and I'm wondering whether you think he couldn't do that either. I think with Kukoc on the floor teams would A) pick and roll him to death and most guards would eat him up on switches B) Make him guard a stretch forward 25 feet from the rim where most all can blow by him and create a rotation His closeouts have to do with playing close to forwards who can now, like him, shoot the 3. But maybe he'd be as doncic had he come over at 21 and pace being what it is. Luka sucks defensively. He just seems a lot stiffer and more like a better shooting mirotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) Let's put it this way: It's questionable if Shaq or Ewing would have a place in today's NBA. Kukoc there isn't even a question about. If Shaq and Ewing would have a place in today's NBA, they probably wouldn't be getting huge minutes. And when I talk about Shaq, I mean LA Shaq not Orlando Shaq. Orlando Shaq would have a place, it's questionable about LA Shaq. This is coming from one of the biggest Shaq fans as a kid. I liked him as much as I liked Jordan. Edited May 7, 2020 by Jack Parkman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 31 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Let's put it this way: It's questionable if Shaq or Ewing would have a place in today's NBA. Kukoc there isn't even a question about. If Shaq and Ewing would have a place in today's NBA, they probably wouldn't be getting huge minutes. And when I talk about Shaq, I mean LA Shaq not Orlando Shaq. Orlando Shaq would have a place, it's questionable about LA Shaq. This is coming from one of the biggest Shaq fans as a kid. I liked him as much as I liked Jordan. Shaq exists in today's NBA. His name is Zion Williamson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Shaq exists in today's NBA. His name is Zion Williamson. Zion is not 7-1. He's more like a super athletic Robert Traylor. Edited April 29, 2020 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 35 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Zion is not 7-1. He's more like a super athletic Robert Traylor. People forget how freakishly athletic Shaq was when he came into the league. He's Zion at the same stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: People forget how freakishly athletic Shaq was when he came into the league. He's Zion at the same stage. No I remember. There's a big difference between 6-8 and 7-1. Edited April 29, 2020 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Let's put it this way: It's questionable if Shaq or Ewing would have a place in today's NBA. Kukoc there isn't even a question about. If Shaq and Ewing would have a place in today's NBA, they probably wouldn't be getting huge minutes. And when I talk about Shaq, I mean LA Shaq not Orlando Shaq. Orlando Shaq would have a place, it's questionable about LA Shaq. This is coming from one of the biggest Shaq fans as a kid. I liked him as much as I liked Jordan. Lakers Shaq would be the best center in the NBA and probably the best player. This is insane. He would be unstoppable on offense. Ewing was a really good shooter and rim protector. He would be extremely valuable today too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Let's put it this way: It's questionable if Shaq or Ewing would have a place in today's NBA. Kukoc there isn't even a question about. If Shaq and Ewing would have a place in today's NBA, they probably wouldn't be getting huge minutes. And when I talk about Shaq, I mean LA Shaq not Orlando Shaq. Orlando Shaq would have a place, it's questionable about LA Shaq. This is coming from one of the biggest Shaq fans as a kid. I liked him as much as I liked Jordan. C'mon Jack... There is absolutely zero question that Shaq would have a place in today's NBA. He is arguably the most dominant player at his peak. I've never seen a player with his combination of tools. Imagine Shaq with a stretch 4 and a bunch of wings stretching the floor for him. Look what Dwight was able to do in the 2008-09 season when he was surrounded by players who spread the floor. That team made it to the finals. Dwight is like a lesser version of Shaq and he was able to dominate. Questioning whether Shaq would have a place in today's NBA is just crazy. Edited April 29, 2020 by Yearnin' for Yermin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said: No I remember. There's a big difference between 6-8 and 7-1. So someone as freakishly athletic as Zion couldn't make it in the NBA today because they were 5 inches taller? I mean, I don't even know how to respond to that. Honestly if you stop and think about it, having a big with that kind of skill and ability would be insanely valuable today. It would cause defenses to sag and open up the outside game even more than you see just through ball movement. You couldn't cheat off Shaq to the three point stripe. You would have to dedicate at least, if not two defenders when he had the ball, or it would be easy pickins. Once he moved the ball from the post, he would have all kinds of shooter options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Yeah - Shaq would break any era of the NBA. The only reason he didn't break the NBA in the late 90's / early 2000's was because the refs were completely unfair in how they treated him. Dude was an unstoppable force and would be today, in the 90's, or 50 years ago. He was the most physically dominating player in NBA history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chisoxfn said: Yeah - Shaq would break any era of the NBA. The only reason he didn't break the NBA in the late 90's / early 2000's was because the refs were completely unfair in how they treated him. Dude was an unstoppable force and would be today, in the 90's, or 50 years ago. He was the most physically dominating player in NBA history. I don't think you can play in the NBA if you can't shoot from 18-25 feet anymore. Being able to make 3 pointers is a requirement now. That's why I question whether or not LA Shaq or Ewing could stick in today's NBA. There's a premium on contested jump shot making rather than inside scoring now. Shaq and Ewing were great from 15 ft in. The great players in the NBA now have to both be athletic freaks inside AND be able to pull up from 3 and nail a shot. The thing that separates players now is how good you are from 18 feet out. LeBron, Durant, Giannis....All are great jump shooters as well as post players. If your game is entirely low post, you're obsolete. The game is completely different now than it was even 10 years ago. Jump shooting is the name of the game. Players would get benched 15 years ago for taking shots that the greats make with regularity now. Edited April 30, 2020 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I don't think you can play in the NBA if you can't shoot from 18-25 feet anymore. Being able to make 3 pointers is a requirement now. That's why I question whether or not LA Shaq or Ewing could stick in today's NBA. There's a premium on contested jump shot making rather than inside scoring now. Shaq and Ewing were great from 15 ft in. The great players in the NBA now have to both be athletic freaks inside AND be able to pull up from 3 and nail a shot. The thing that separates players now is how good you are from 18 feet out. LeBron, Durant, Giannis....All are great jump shooters as well as post players. If your game is entirely low post, you're obsolete. The game is completely different now than it was even 10 years ago. Jump shooting is the name of the game. Players would get benched 15 years ago for taking shots that the greats make with regularity now. You dont seem to get other team would have to make changes to play against Shaq. Shaq in his prime would eat Giannis alive. If you put guys like Draymond Green on him Shaq would average 30/20. Plus with hed allow the rest of his team to be more aggressive on the outside on defense because no one could challenge him inside. Edited April 30, 2020 by Soxbadger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Soxbadger said: You dont seem to get other teama would have to make changes to play against Shaq. Shaq in his prime would eat Giannis alive. If you put guys like Draymond Green on him Shaq would average 30/20. Plus with hed allow the rest of his team to be more aggressive on the outside on defense because no one could challenge him inside. I agree if you're talking Orlando Shaq... sure. Like I said, Shaq couldn't let himself get fat like he did in today's NBA. LA Shaq where he was 350+ and couldn't move as well has no place in today's NBA. LA Shaq overpowered people with strength. Orlando Shaq was a freak that could hang with today's players. Counter argument- Shaq couldn't stop Giannis from taking jump shots.....and making them. If Shaq(the LA version) played now he'd be in foul trouble constantly. I don't know if there's a place for a 7 ft guy that's great from 15 feet in anymore. I'd love to drop 30 year old Shaq from 2000 in this NBA and see if he could hang. It would be fascinating. I never said he could or couldn't....I just said I didn't know. I agree that there aren't many players that could guard Shaq in the NBA now. It's just a completely different game. There are probably guys who were busts in the late 90s and early 00s that would be able to stick now as well. Absolutely Shaq would eat Draymond Green alive. Is the difference that there are no great centers anymore, and the league has adjusted to that fact....or is it that raw athleticism and jump shooting has taken over? Edited April 30, 2020 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: I agree if you're talking Orlando Shaq... sure. Like I said, Shaq couldn't let himself get fat like he did in today's NBA. LA Shaq where he was 350+ and couldn't move as well has no place in today's NBA. LA Shaq overpowered people with strength. Orlando Shaq was a freak that could hang with today's players. Counter argument- Shaq couldn't stop Giannis from taking jump shots.....and making them. If Shaq(the LA version) played now he'd be in foul trouble constantly. I don't know if there's a place for a 7 ft guy that's great from 15 feet in anymore. You keep jumping all over the place. There is always a place for one of the greatest players in nba history. And im pretty sure forcing Giannis to take 15ft+ jumpers all night is a recipe for success. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 In what world is Giannis a good shooter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Boogua said: In what world is Giannis a good shooter? Maybe I gave him too much credit. If he's not as good of a shooter as I thought he was, then maybe it's just that there aren't that many gifted big men anymore. I was under the impression that outside shooting is a requirement to stick nowadays, with all of the talk of analytics and 3>2 etc. Edited April 30, 2020 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Just now, Jack Parkman said: Maybe I gave him too much credit. If he's not as good of a shooter as I thought he was, then maybe it's just that there aren't that many gifted big men anymore. There are some good ones, but nobody on the level of Shaq. Embiid and Jokic are regularly out of shape and they are just fine today defensively and play a lot in the post offensively. They both can stretch the floor a bit, but embiid is much better in the post and any team giving up jumpers to him will gladly take that, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Boogua said: There are some good ones, but nobody on the level of Shaq. Embiid and Jokic are regularly out of shape and they are just fine today defensively and play a lot in the post offensively. They both can stretch the floor a bit, but embiid is much better in the post and any team giving up jumpers to him will gladly take that, Is there anyone even on the level of Ewing? I guess I'm just that out of touch. Most of my info comes from listening to the radio rather than watching games. I watch maybe 10 Bulls games per year and the conference and NBA finals and that's it these days. Haven't been a hardcore NBA fan in about 7-8 years. \ If I'm being honest with you guys, I don't even know who the stars in the NBA are outside of LeBron, Giannis, Durant, Curry, Leonard and Anthony Davis. I know a few guys on good teams like Draymond Green and other old vets that were holdovers from the days where I was a hardcore NBA guy. Edited April 30, 2020 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Maybe I gave him too much credit. If he's not as good of a shooter as I thought he was, then maybe it's just that there aren't that many gifted big men anymore. I was under the impression that outside shooting is a requirement to stick nowadays, with all of the talk of analytics and 3>2 etc. I've only watched the conference finals and finals since the Durant/Warriors BS. Generational talents overcome analytics. Just now, Jack Parkman said: Is there anyone even on the level of Ewing? Ewing would be the best pure center right now, his per is similar to Embiid but thered be less big men to guard him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Is there anyone even on the level of Ewing? I guess I'm just that out of touch. Depends on which Ewing. Prime Ewing would without a doubt be the best center in the nba. Unless you count Anthony Davis at center Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.