All Star Jose Abreu

[poppysox]

5 hours ago, greg775 said:

Well, I guess his numbers at the age of 39 are outliers caused by PEDs. My gosh. The lengths anti age people will go. You are making a huge assumption instead of just acknowledging some guys/many guys will be able to hit into their late 30s and early 40s. It's just current fad that you don't want a hitter over 33. Now a pitcher? That's fine.

It's not that I don't want any older guys on my team...just don't want to be committed to them for more than a year or two at a time.

[SCCWS]

46 minutes ago, poppysox said:

It's not that I don't want any older guys on my team...just don't want to be committed to them for more than a year or two at a time.

I have seen numerous posters on here saying they want JD Martinez. Does that mean you would not want him if he hits FA this winter?  I think he will get more than a 1-2 year. 

[Moan4Yoan]

16 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

I have seen numerous posters on here saying they want JD Martinez. Does that mean you would not want him if he hits FA this winter?  I think he will get more than a 1-2 year. 

We need a RF, not a LF/DH.  I’d rather extend Abreu and get a stop-gap at DH until Vaughn is ready.  Then Abreu can move to DH with Vaughn at 1B.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[WBWSF]

Abreu is a free agent at the end of this year. I can't help but wonder if some team offers him a big multi year contract if he takes it. It doesn't appear as if the White sox are going to give him a big multi year contract.

[ron883]

29 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Abreu is a free agent at the end of this year. I can't help but wonder if some team offers him a big multi year contract if he takes it. It doesn't appear as if the White sox are going to give him a big multi year contract.

Jose is 17th is wOBA and 14th in wRC+. He's pretty middle of the pack as far as starting 1st basemen go. I don't think any team goes crazy and gives him more than 3y/36m, at most

[WBWSF]

2 hours ago, ron883 said:

Jose is 17th is wOBA and 14th in wRC+. He's pretty middle of the pack as far as starting 1st basemen go. I don't think any team goes crazy and gives him more than 3y/36m, at most

Lets say that you're right about 3yr/36 million. Does anybody think the White Sox would give him that? Keep in mind that Hahn gave Adam Laroche 2years/24 million when he was 34 years old.

[poppysox]

3 hours ago, SCCWS said:

I have seen numerous posters on here saying they want JD Martinez. Does that mean you would not want him if he hits FA this winter?  I think he will get more than a 1-2 year. hr

Martinez is 31 years old.  Three guaranteed years would probably be my maximum.  My comment of limiting older players to 1 or two year contracts was aimed at slightly older than Martinez.  Obviously, the make up of your team influences contract length as well.  You wouldn't put Martinez on the same team with Abreu and Vaughn.

[greg775]

6 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I gave you a very valid counterpoint to your argument that you weren’t even aware of on Cruz’s record and you simply dismissed it.  There is no debating with you or getting through to you.  Once your mind is made up, that is it.  You don’t think there is any likelihood that Cruz, who has cheated in the past is still doing the same to improve his performance in his old age?  Yes, hitters can be productive in their old age but Cruz at 39 is the massive outlier, not the norm.  So why would a young team want to go against the law of averages and sign a bunch of older guys?  It isn’t being “anti-age.”  It’s using common sense and realizing that the career peak for most clean players is in their late 20’s to early 30’s, not their mid to late 30’s.

I don't think saying a guy is using or is still enjoying the benefit of using is a reasonable argument. I read your post.

[Moan4Yoan]

3 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I don't think saying a guy is using or is still enjoying the benefit of using is a reasonable argument. I read your post.

Well, then I will let you provide some sort of reasonable explanation why there aren’t more 39 year olds still tearing it up in this non-McGwire/Sosa era of baseball.

[harkness99]

jose been hot.. hopefully all star break doesn't slow him down.

[SCCWS]

5 hours ago, poppysox said:

Martinez is 31 years old.  Three guaranteed years would probably be my maximum.  My comment of limiting older players to 1 or two year contracts was aimed at slightly older than Martinez.  Obviously, the make up of your team influences contract length as well.  You wouldn't put Martinez on the same team with Abreu and Vaughn.

Actually Martinez will be 32 next month so he will be 32 next contract. He is only 6 months younger than Abreu if he is 32.  I understand your position but I think JD gets at least 4-5 next winter.

[oldsox]

I hope he gets a 1-2 year extension soon.  If not, and if he goes into FA, then give him a QO and let him make the decision.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, oldsox said:

I hope he gets a 1-2 year extension soon.  If not, and if he goes into FA, then give him a QO and let him make the decision.

There would be no decision to make.  He’d take the QO in a heartbeat.  Better, more desirable players have struggled with the QO, let alone a 32 year old, non-elite 1B / DH type.

[SCCWS]

9 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

We need a RF, not a LF/DH.  I’d rather extend Abreu and get a stop-gap at DH until Vaughn is ready.  Then Abreu can move to DH with Vaughn at 1B.

Actually Martinez has played more RF than LF this year. But I hope they find a left-handed hitting RF to give the order another LH bat especially if Collins struggles.   

[oldsox]

11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

There would be no decision to make.  He’d take the QO in a heartbeat.  Better, more desirable players have struggled with the QO, let alone a 32 year old, non-elite 1B / DH type.: 

Often, GM's are reluctant to give a marginal guy a QO, and then regret it.  Case in point, DJ Lemehieu.  Rockies said no, Yanks said yes, and Yanks won.  Colorado GM got roasted by the Press this weekend.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, WBWSF said:

Lets say that you're right about 3yr/36 million. Does anybody think the White Sox would give him that? Keep in mind that Hahn gave Adam Laroche 2years/24 million when he was 34 years old.

Let's say Jose isn't traded at the trade deadline because the Sox decide he's a great leader , a great mentor to Moncada and expect him to mentor Robert in much the same way next year as well as a good enough hitter. That would be a perfectly reasonable scenario.

The Sox then have to decide if they want to extend him a Qualifying Offer which will be in the $18M range. SO the question is does Jose accept the QO if the Sox offer one or test free agency with a draft pick attached to him which would be the kiss of death.  They can also offer him a longer deal that doesn't average $18M a year. Or they can trade him and resign him . If traded he won't have a draft pick attached to him and would likely get better offers but probably nothing very long and God only knows what offers he gets.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

13 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Often, GM's are reluctant to give a marginal guy a QO, and then regret it.  Case in point, DJ Lemehieu.  Rockies said no, Yanks said yes, and Yanks won.  Colorado GM got roasted by the Press this weekend.

on the other side of it look what happen to Kimbrel and Keuchel. They refused QO's and had to wait til mid season to play and get decent offers.

[greg775]

22 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Let's say Jose isn't traded at the trade deadline because the Sox decide he's a great leader , a great mentor to Moncada and expect him to mentor Robert in much the same way next year as well as a good enough hitter. That would be a perfectly reasonable scenario.

If the Sox do trade Abreu at the deadline it will be one of more disgraceful transactions in team history. What buzzkill to the "rebuild" if that happens. I like what oldsox suggested. Extend him 1 or 2 years right now with a team option for year three. Overpay him at 13 or 14 mill per year (who cares about Jerry's wallet?? Not me). Hopefully his agent will not be a d_ _ k and simply say OK.  This would be great way to continue the good vibes of this season. It'd let everybody know the popular Jose will be a part of the WS teams and his veteran leadership ain't going anywhere. Also it would prevent bad vibes to start next season. Let's say Jose signs for 2-3 years in the offseason and it's for more money than the rabid fan thinks he should get. Now every at bat Jose has in April and May of 2020 will be overly scrutinized with negative vibes all over the place heaven forbid Jose hit .222 in April with 2 home runs and 9 RBI.

It makes too much sense. Oldsox is right. Extend him now! Also when grades are assessed for first half performance, Jose better get one solid grade of A. There's no reason for his grade to not be an A. Sox have some other A's too by the way.

And Ricky gets a B or B plus or A minus believe it or not. He's in charge of the big picture. This flawed roster is two under .500.

Edited July 8, 2019 by greg775

[poppysox]

On 7/7/2019 at 7:47 PM, oldsox said:

I hope he gets a 1-2 year extension soon.  If not, and if he goes into FA, then give him a QO and let him make the decision.

I believe Jose gets a 2 or 3 year extension in the area of 12 or 13 million per year by the months end.  

[Moan4Yoan]

On 7/7/2019 at 7:21 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

on the other side of it look what happen to Kimbrel and Keuchel. They refused QO's and had to wait til mid season to play and get decent offers.

Moustakas too.

[SonofaRoache]

Also remember this.... Jose and Yoan are close friends. So it would be wise for our front office to treat Jose with respect if they want to ensure Moncada stays here. Jose would definitely convince Moncada to stay if he is still here. Sending Jose packing and not allowing him to win after all this losing would be a knife in the back of this rebuild. 

[FloydBannister1983]

51 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Also remember this.... Jose and Yoan are close friends. So it would be wise for our front office to treat Jose with respect if they want to ensure Moncada stays here. Jose would definitely convince Moncada to stay if he is still here. Sending Jose packing and not allowing him to win after all this losing would be a knife in the back of this rebuild. 

 

Are 32 and 24 year olds really that close that this should be a consideration?

Also what guarantees Abreu would convince Moncada of anything?  They just tried that this very offseason with Machado's family and friends and what did that get them?

Moncada should not enter into anyone's thought processes when considering what to do with Abreu.

 

[mqr]

10 minutes ago, Juschill said:

 

Are 32 and 24 year olds really that close that this should be a consideration?

Also what guarantees Abreu would convince Moncada of anything?  They just tried that this very offseason with Machado's family and friends and what did that get them?

Moncada should not enter into anyone's thought processes when considering what to do with Abreu.

 

I agree that Moncada should not factor into this decision, but they really need to do their best to not burn any bridges with Jose if they decide to move on. 

[SonofaRoache]

40 minutes ago, Juschill said:

 

Are 32 and 24 year olds really that close that this should be a consideration?

Also what guarantees Abreu would convince Moncada of anything?  They just tried that this very offseason with Machado's family and friends and what did that get them?

Moncada should not enter into anyone's thought processes when considering what to do with Abreu.

 

Well when Moncada got to Chicago Jose was his first and most important contact. From the looks of it they hang out together a lot too. When people are not from this country and play a sport together where they are together all the time, the age gap is not as big of a deal. The Sox definitely need to consider this as Moncada is the main cog of the rebuild and we cannot lose him. 

 

Also, Yonder and Jay actually did well convincing Machado to play here. We just didn't do our part offering a competitive contract. 

Edited July 9, 2019 by SonofaRoache

[SonofaRoache]

26 minutes ago, mqr said:

I agree that Moncada should not factor into this decision, but they really need to do their best to not burn any bridges with Jose if they decide to move on. 

Keeping Jose would help a lot in terms of keeping Moncada. If they move on from Jose, it definitely needs to be done right. Tou don't want your key star feeling like the organization doesn't care about its lifetime players.