All Star Jose Abreu

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

But, his stats have declined considerably over the past 3 years. He's hovered in 2018/2019 but that's way down from 2017, including in important categories like hitting the fastball that players get worse at with time.

Are you still making this argument?  Look at his quality of contact which is still fantastic.  Statcast thinks he’s gotten a bit lucky and expects his numbers to improve.  Jose may be inconsistent / streaky but overall he’s still been plenty productive offensively.

And you were proven wrong on the “unable to catch up to high velocity fastballs” theory last year, so please stop with that narrative.

[turnin' two]

The way I look at Abreu, is first,  I think he is a perfect mentor for the younger players on the team, chew notwithstanding.  He is a professional hitter.  Works every AB.  He seems to be very professional in the way he carries himself and how he approaches his business.  He is consistent and reliable.  He seems to work hard.  He hits.  He hits good pitching.  He is an XBH machine.  But let's leave that aside.  It doesn't matter for the analytics.  

The question that needs is does Jose Abreu make this a better team.  I think the answer to that is clearly yes.  With Anderson, Moncada and Eloy, Abreu is the best hitter on the team.  The most dangerous hitter on the team.  He is the anchor in the middle of the lineup.  I think he clearly makes this team better.  

The second question, is does keeping him around make the team better?  I think yes.  Now, obviously there are some caveats here.  First of all, the question becomes with whom would they replace him.  There doesn't seem to be an in house option at the ready for next season, and maybe the season after.  When you look at the list of FAs for next season, I don't think there is anyone close to as good as Jose at 1B.  In terms of a DH, there could be JD, but he is really the only clearly superior option.  Guys like Cruz and Encarnacion are there, but if people have am issue with Abreu's age, those guys are dinosaurs.  I think the team would be better in 2020, with Jose Abreu.  Especially if they plan on contending, which I think they can, it would be a huge risk to replace Jose with someone like Sheets.  

The FA list for 20/21 is equally uninspiring.  For the most part the names there are older and worse than Jose.  But, by 2021, maybe guys like Sheets and Vaughn are ready to contribute.  The good news, is the Sox should have 2 spots in the lineup for Jose, 1B and DH.

Now there could be other extenuating circumstances, but I think for the most part, this team looks better this year, next year, and the year after with Abreu in the lineup.  He certainly fits for the next 2 years.  And if the price of keeping him for 2 is signing him for 3, then I take that.  If it is 4 years, I think that still makes sense.  Abreu will decline with age.  That is certain.  But he doesn't look like he is going to Ryan Howard and completely fall off a cliff.  But I see this as a better team with Jose than they are without him.  Now and for the next couple of seasons.  

[poppysox]

18 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

The way I look at Abreu, is first,  I think he is a perfect mentor for the younger players on the team, chew notwithstanding.  He is a professional hitter.  Works every AB.  He seems to be very professional in the way he carries himself and how he approaches his business.  He is consistent and reliable.  He seems to work hard.  He hits.  He hits good pitching.  He is an XBH machine.  But let's leave that aside.  It doesn't matter for the analytics.  

The question that needs is does Jose Abreu make this a better team.  I think the answer to that is clearly yes.  With Anderson, Moncada and Eloy, Abreu is the best hitter on the team.  The most dangerous hitter on the team.  He is the anchor in the middle of the lineup.  I think he clearly makes this team better.  

The second question, is does keeping him around make the team better?  I think yes.  Now, obviously there are some caveats here.  First of all, the question becomes with whom would they replace him.  There doesn't seem to be an in house option at the ready for next season, and maybe the season after.  When you look at the list of FAs for next season, I don't think there is anyone close to as good as Jose at 1B.  In terms of a DH, there could be JD, but he is really the only clearly superior option.  Guys like Cruz and Encarnacion are there, but if people have am issue with Abreu's age, those guys are dinosaurs.  I think the team would be better in 2020, with Jose Abreu.  Especially if they plan on contending, which I think they can, it would be a huge risk to replace Jose with someone like Sheets.  

The FA list for 20/21 is equally uninspiring.  For the most part the names there are older and worse than Jose.  But, by 2021, maybe guys like Sheets and Vaughn are ready to contribute.  The good news, is the Sox should have 2 spots in the lineup for Jose, 1B and DH.

Now there could be other extenuating circumstances, but I think for the most part, this team looks better this year, next year, and the year after with Abreu in the lineup.  He certainly fits for the next 2 years.  And if the price of keeping him for 2 is signing him for 3, then I take that.  If it is 4 years, I think that still makes sense.  Abreu will decline with age.  That is certain.  But he doesn't look like he is going to Ryan Howard and completely fall off a cliff.  But I see this as a better team with Jose than they are without him.  Now and for the next couple of seasons.  

I agree with most of this post.   The term should be two or three years IMO.  Jose is an All Star in this years class.  The idea he is a fossil in some fans minds is just hard to understand.  We honored Konerko with final year tours and staying at least two years to many.  Jose is still productive and we take this attitude of don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[greg775]

30 minutes ago, poppysox said:

The idea he is a fossil in some fans minds is just hard to understand.

Great post. To be fair, I get the vibe it's nothing personal against Jose except for a couple of posters who seem to despise him mostly because of defense and the fact he doesn't like to DH. They fear keeping him at first as much as his age.

I sense the fans that fear he's a fossil are new-agers who look at age quite closely. When they see Jose they see '32' and pretty much can't enjoy him after that permeates their minds.

[soxfan49]

2 hours ago, turnin' two said:

The way I look at Abreu, is first,  I think he is a perfect mentor for the younger players on the team, chew notwithstanding.  He is a professional hitter.  Works every AB.  He seems to be very professional in the way he carries himself and how he approaches his business.  He is consistent and reliable.  He seems to work hard.  He hits.  He hits good pitching.  He is an XBH machine.  But let's leave that aside.  It doesn't matter for the analytics.  

The question that needs is does Jose Abreu make this a better team.  I think the answer to that is clearly yes.  With Anderson, Moncada and Eloy, Abreu is the best hitter on the team.  The most dangerous hitter on the team.  He is the anchor in the middle of the lineup.  I think he clearly makes this team better.  

The second question, is does keeping him around make the team better?  I think yes.  Now, obviously there are some caveats here.  First of all, the question becomes with whom would they replace him.  There doesn't seem to be an in house option at the ready for next season, and maybe the season after.  When you look at the list of FAs for next season, I don't think there is anyone close to as good as Jose at 1B.  In terms of a DH, there could be JD, but he is really the only clearly superior option.  Guys like Cruz and Encarnacion are there, but if people have am issue with Abreu's age, those guys are dinosaurs.  I think the team would be better in 2020, with Jose Abreu.  Especially if they plan on contending, which I think they can, it would be a huge risk to replace Jose with someone like Sheets.  

The FA list for 20/21 is equally uninspiring.  For the most part the names there are older and worse than Jose.  But, by 2021, maybe guys like Sheets and Vaughn are ready to contribute.  The good news, is the Sox should have 2 spots in the lineup for Jose, 1B and DH.

Now there could be other extenuating circumstances, but I think for the most part, this team looks better this year, next year, and the year after with Abreu in the lineup.  He certainly fits for the next 2 years.  And if the price of keeping him for 2 is signing him for 3, then I take that.  If it is 4 years, I think that still makes sense.  Abreu will decline with age.  That is certain.  But he doesn't look like he is going to Ryan Howard and completely fall off a cliff.  But I see this as a better team with Jose than they are without him.  Now and for the next couple of seasons.  

IMO Moncada is the best hitter on the team. I could probably argue that Eloy is most dangerous. Either way, it can also be argued that Abreu is the best and most dangerous. What can't be predicted is how well he'll continue to perform after this year. What can be said for certain is that if he is a Sock for the next 2-3 years, if it's still argued in 2021 and 2022 that he's the best and/or most dangerous hitter in the lineup, shit hit the fan.

[turnin' two]

1 minute ago, soxfan49 said:

IMO Moncada is the best hitter on the team. I could probably argue that Eloy is most dangerous. Either way, it can also be argued that Abreu is the best and most dangerous. What can't be predicted is how well he'll continue to perform after this year. What can be said for certain is that if he is a Sock for the next 2-3 years, if it's still argued in 2021 and 2022 that he's the best and/or most dangerous hitter in the lineup, shit hit the fan.

Well, yeah.  Moncada is looking like a star, and Eloy could be a monster.  But even with those guys progressing, Abreu could still be a dangerous part of the lineup in 2-3 years.  A bat like his, even diminished a bit for age, would be a heck of a hitter hitting 5th or 6th.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

You “sense” that because you have zero reading comprehension skills and instead of getting into a thoughtful dialogue with a number of posters making rational, data driven arguments, you center around 1-2 posters that are going to the extreme in saying “Abreu is bad” and using them to represent the entire board. 

Go away. 

That's not very tolerant. Actually most of the posts that are anti Jose are not really discussing his production and expected production and are emotionally based themselves. Read them and tell me they are not age-centric for the most part. I do think Sox beat writers could ask the tougher questions of Hahn/KW following the acquisition of the Houston guy. It sure seems like he was acquired to take over for Abreu if/when he gets traded. I'd say the odds of Jose being traded have increased significantly following that transaction.

[Moan4Yoan]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

That's not very tolerant. Actually most of the posts that are anti Jose are not really discussing his production and expected production and are emotionally based themselves. Read them and tell me they are not age-centric for the most part. I do think Sox beat writers could ask the tougher questions of Hahn/KW following the acquisition of the Houston guy. It sure seems like he was acquired to take over for Abreu if/when he gets traded. I'd say the odds of Jose being traded have increased significantly following that transaction.

Who is the Sox DH right now and next year?  Why can you not reason that perhaps they want to resign Abreu but “the Houston guy” (Reed) could fit in at DH for next year if he performs well in the role in the second half of this season?

Edited July 11, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[BackDoorBreach]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

That's not very tolerant. Actually most of the posts that are anti Jose are not really discussing his production and expected production and are emotionally based themselves. Read them and tell me they are not age-centric for the most part. I do think Sox beat writers could ask the tougher questions of Hahn/KW following the acquisition of the Houston guy. It sure seems like he was acquired to take over for Abreu if/when he gets traded. I'd say the odds of Jose being traded have increased significantly following that transaction.

Reed is not taking over for Abreu, Vaughn is.  Reed is a flyer.

[mqr]

5 hours ago, turnin' two said:

The way I look at Abreu, is first,  I think he is a perfect mentor for the younger players on the team, chew notwithstanding.  He is a professional hitter.  Works every AB.  He seems to be very professional in the way he carries himself and how he approaches his business.  He is consistent and reliable.  He seems to work hard.  He hits.  He hits good pitching.  He is an XBH machine.  But let's leave that aside.  It doesn't matter for the analytics.  

The question that needs is does Jose Abreu make this a better team.  I think the answer to that is clearly yes.  With Anderson, Moncada and Eloy, Abreu is the best hitter on the team.  The most dangerous hitter on the team.  He is the anchor in the middle of the lineup.  I think he clearly makes this team better.  

The second question, is does keeping him around make the team better?  I think yes.  Now, obviously there are some caveats here.  First of all, the question becomes with whom would they replace him.  There doesn't seem to be an in house option at the ready for next season, and maybe the season after.  When you look at the list of FAs for next season, I don't think there is anyone close to as good as Jose at 1B.  In terms of a DH, there could be JD, but he is really the only clearly superior option.  Guys like Cruz and Encarnacion are there, but if people have am issue with Abreu's age, those guys are dinosaurs.  I think the team would be better in 2020, with Jose Abreu.  Especially if they plan on contending, which I think they can, it would be a huge risk to replace Jose with someone like Sheets.  

The FA list for 20/21 is equally uninspiring.  For the most part the names there are older and worse than Jose.  But, by 2021, maybe guys like Sheets and Vaughn are ready to contribute.  The good news, is the Sox should have 2 spots in the lineup for Jose, 1B and DH.

Now there could be other extenuating circumstances, but I think for the most part, this team looks better this year, next year, and the year after with Abreu in the lineup.  He certainly fits for the next 2 years.  And if the price of keeping him for 2 is signing him for 3, then I take that.  If it is 4 years, I think that still makes sense.  Abreu will decline with age.  That is certain.  But he doesn't look like he is going to Ryan Howard and completely fall off a cliff.  But I see this as a better team with Jose than they are without him.  Now and for the next couple of seasons.  

The best hitter on the team is very clearly Moncada right now. Followed very closely by McCann, but I wouldn’t expect that to continue. 

Edited July 11, 2019 by mqr

[poppysox]

7 hours ago, mqr said:

The best hitter on the team is very clearly Moncada right now. Followed very closely by McCann, but I wouldn’t expect that to continue. 

I would.  He's hitting ropes not bloopers.

[Sockin]

Nightengale saying Sox are not trading Abreu and are trying to sign him to a short term extension.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2019/07/15/mlb-trade-rumors-deadline-madison-bumgarner/1734045001/

Quote

Abreu is a free agent at the season’s conclusion, but the White Sox value his leadership highly, and believe they can win next season, so they are trying to sign him to a short-term extension.

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Sockin

[greg775]

1 hour ago, Sockin said:

Nightengale saying Sox are not trading Abreu and are trying to sign him to a short term extension.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2019/07/15/mlb-trade-rumors-deadline-madison-bumgarner/1734045001/

 

Two for 30 would be nice; I'd prefer three so we could shut up the people who want to trade him for at least a full season. How about 3 years, 36 million, take it to the bank and start pushing the narrative he's our team leader, our Walter Payton, our Ernie Banks, our Dick Butkus, our Corey Crawford, our Scottie Pippen. I like this report.

[Moan4Yoan]

6 hours ago, greg775 said:

Two for 30 would be nice; I'd prefer three so we could shut up the people who want to trade him for at least a full season. How about 3 years, 36 million, take it to the bank and start pushing the narrative he's our team leader, our Walter Payton, our Ernie Banks, our Dick Butkus, our Corey Crawford, our Scottie Pippen. I like this report.

Let’s not give him more years than we need to.  I’m hoping short-term to the Sox is two years, not three.

[ron883]

Abreu is going to kill his value before the deadline per usual. That is his MO. 

[greg775]

25 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Abreu is going to kill his value before the deadline per usual. That is his MO. 

He's not trying to suck and make outs no matter what you say. He is who he is.

[ron883]

8 minutes ago, greg775 said:

He's not trying to suck and make outs no matter what you say. He is who he is.

He is who he is. A wildly streaky player who cracks under pressure.

[Thad Bosley]

37 minutes ago, ron883 said:

He is who he is. A wildly streaky player who cracks under pressure.

Oh, quiet, you!

[poppysox]

15 hours ago, greg775 said:

Two for 30 would be nice; I'd prefer three so we could shut up the people who want to trade him for at least a full season. How about 3 years, 36 million, take it to the bank and start pushing the narrative he's our team leader, our Walter Payton, our Ernie Banks, our Dick Butkus, our Corey Crawford, our Scottie Pippen. I like this report.

I like Abreu but he is not one of those type people.  A contract of 2 or 3 years at about 12 million per would be fine with me.  If he doesn't take whatever offer the Sox are offering than trade him.  Empty handed at the end of the year doesn't work for me.

[greg775]

18 hours ago, ron883 said:

He is who he is. A wildly streaky player who cracks under pressure.

Pressure? This team hasn't had a pressure filled game in years. How much pressure can there be when losing is applauded.

[gusguyman]

I refuse to let any of the ridiculous Ron threads become the official Abreu discussion thread, so I am moving back here with this actual news:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/08/jose-abreu-reportedly-wont-receive-in-season-extension-offer.html

No real shockers here, but it seems to be more confirmation that this saga won't be resolved until the offseason

[Bob Sacamano]

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 3:57 PM, gusguyman said:

I refuse to let any of the ridiculous Ron threads become the official Abreu discussion thread, so I am moving back here with this actual news:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/08/jose-abreu-reportedly-wont-receive-in-season-extension-offer.html

No real shockers here, but it seems to be more confirmation that this saga won't be resolved until the offseason

After looking at the free agents for next year, I will gladly take Abreu back on a one year deal. Mostly DH and fill in at 1B for Collins.

Edited August 5, 2019 by soxfan2014

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

After looking at the free agents for next year, I will gladly take Abreu back on a one year deal. Mostly DH and fill in at 1B for Collins.

They better play Collins everyday at the MLB level between now and the end of September if they’re NOT planning on going outside the organization to address the DH issue.

No excuses now that Reed is gone.  

DFA Castillo and be done with it, he and Alonso are setting Fangraphs records for negative fWAR in a limited amount of plate appearances.

[kitekrazy]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

They better play Collins everyday at the MLB level between now and the end of September if they’re NOT planning on going outside the organization to address the DH issue.

No excuses now that Reed is gone.  

DFA Castillo and be done with it, he and Alonso are setting Fangraphs records for negative fWAR in a limited amount of plate appearances.

 I still don't understand the Collins envy.   They drafted him as a catcher and now they are hmmmmmm.......maybe, maybe not as a catcher. well maybe 1st base....we don't know.   The Sox never seem short of potential 1B/DH.   It's obvious the scouting ignores defense and the coaching can't improve a player's defense.  Is there anything in Collin's stats that say promote him?  Not really.  Unfortunately catcher is the hardest position to fill in baseball.

[Bob Sacamano]

11 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

 I still don't understand the Collins envy.   They drafted him as a catcher and now they are hmmmmmm.......maybe, maybe not as a catcher. well maybe 1st base....we don't know.   The Sox never seem short of potential 1B/DH.   It's obvious the scouting ignores defense and the coaching can't improve a player's defense.  Is there anything in Collin's stats that say promote him?  Not really.  Unfortunately catcher is the hardest position to fill in baseball.

I love his ability to draw walks and hit for some pop.