Chicago White Sox Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ron883 said: He sees the writing on the wall with Vaughn coming up next season. We need a DH though and Jose’s 1B days should be over. Edited July 4, 2019 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: We need a DH though and Jose’s 1B days should be over. I think people are a little quick to write off Eloy in the field. He's not good, but he is also VERY young. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Eloy has actually looked pretty decent defensively since he returned from injury. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Eloy Jiménez said: I think people are a little quick to write off Eloy in the field. He's not good, but he is also VERY young. How is Vaughn at first? If he's just adequate, maybe they can throw Vaughn in left to learn that position as well, then you have a better triangle of Eloy/Abreu/Vaughn. When Abreu leaves, you can plug in Collins/Burger/whoever Edited July 4, 2019 by TheBlackSox8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, Eloy Jiménez said: I think people are a little quick to write off Eloy in the field. He's not good, but he is also VERY young. I agree, Eloy should definitely be more than playable in LF for the next couple years. No reason to rush him to the DH spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, TheBlackSox8 said: How is Vaughn at first? If he's just adequate, maybe they can throw Vaughn in left to learn that position as well, then you have a better triangle of Eloy/Abreu/Vaughn. Vaughn is supposed to be pretty good at 1B. I just don’t see Eloy working as a 1B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 What's wrong with Eloy in LF? I see him playing there a long, long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, greg775 said: What's wrong with Eloy in LF? I see him playing there a long, long time. Nothing. It's the only reason I can think of off the top of my head as to why we couldn't sign Jose to play DH. DH would be great for Jose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Eloy Jiménez said: Nothing. It's the only reason I can think of off the top of my head as to why we couldn't sign Jose to play DH. DH would be great for Jose. Jose refuses to DH full time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, ron883 said: Jose refuses to DH full time Time for our guy Jose to decide how badly he wants to stay in Chicago then, I'm afraid. His comments indicated he would do quite a lot for this organization and he really wants to stay in Chicago. Here's his shot. DH 70% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, ron883 said: Jose refuses to DH full time Unless you can show me something that said he refuses to do it I'll just go with he prefers not to. Even Jose has to realize that age catches up with everyone and in order to stay there might have to be conditions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Unless you can show me something that said he refuses to do it I'll just go with he prefers not to. Even Jose has to realize that age catches up with everyone and in order to stay there might have to be conditions. Right. And here's the thing. From what I have heard and read, DH is a really really hard spot to play. You bat and it's all you think about. If we're stacked with young guys, I'm not putting one of them at DH. Sorry, I'm just not. DH is a mental drain because you simply do not play the field and have a ton of time to think about previous at bats, good or bad. Andrew Vaughn and Eloy Jimenez will not be DHing for this team for a long time. If Jose wants to be an elder statesman and leader for a young team on the rise, he needs to step up and take the DH spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 9 hours ago, Eloy Jiménez said: Time for our guy Jose to decide how badly he wants to stay in Chicago then, I'm afraid. His comments indicated he would do quite a lot for this organization and he really wants to stay in Chicago. Here's his shot. DH 70% of the time. 100% agree and I think he ultimately will agree to DH. Otherwise there’s zero chance he’ll be here after the 2020 season because Vaughn will have the 1B role on lock-down by then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 9 hours ago, Eloy Jiménez said: Right. And here's the thing. From what I have heard and read, DH is a really really hard spot to play. You bat and it's all you think about. If we're stacked with young guys, I'm not putting one of them at DH. Sorry, I'm just not. DH is a mental drain because you simply do not play the field and have a ton of time to think about previous at bats, good or bad. Andrew Vaughn and Eloy Jimenez will not be DHing for this team for a long time. If Jose wants to be an elder statesman and leader for a young team on the rise, he needs to step up and take the DH spot. I agree about the mental aspect of DHing and not sure everyone can do it. That being said, Jose has 500 career plate appearances and has put up a 128 wRC+, which is very similar to his production at 1B. He may not want to DH but he’s shown in a fairly large sample he can handle the role and moving him there is what’s best for the team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 One good thing about this All-Star game is that the Sox have more than one representative. It is an indication of the team's improvement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 After the game yesterday, he said he really wants be here with these guys going forward. I go year to year with him and offer 1 year $8 million to DH next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 48 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: After the game yesterday, he said he really wants be here with these guys going forward. I go year to year with him and offer 1 year $8 million to DH next year. I think that will sound like an insult to Abreu. DH/1B types can be found on the cheap, But he's been real good for a long time and I honestly don't think the Sox will play hard ball with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 11 hours ago, Jose Abreu said: Eloy has actually looked pretty decent defensively since he returned from injury. He is just fine. Catches the routine stuff and once in a while makes a real nice play. His arm is the only concern for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 1 hour ago, poppysox said: He is just fine. Catches the routine stuff and once in a while makes a real nice play. His arm is the only concern for me. Sounds like a power hitting outfielder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vilehoopster Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) People trying to force Abreu into only DHing or not paying him what he wants are arguing two BIG assumptions as if they were total facts. And they're not facts and really very questionable. 1st assumption: Vaughn is gonna be great and he's gonna be here next year. There's a lot of doubt to both parts of this assumption. I think he's gonna be really good, but we can't assume that like it's a fact. Do I need to bring up some other Sox 1st round draft results? Jake Burger, Burdi, Carson Fulmer; anyone seen Keon Barnum lately? Now, I don't think Vaugh is gonna be a bust; but it's totally unrealistic to think he's going to be playing 1st base for the White Sox next year. It could happen, but because of so many different factors, the odds are really low of that happening. 2nd assumption: Abreu is now on or is about to begin on some sort of speedy downward slope of his abilities, both hitting and fielding, that he's about to suddenly be too old to be any good. I understand that he's over 30, but he far from old. And he's having the best year of his career right now, this year. There is no indication that his skills are failing. I realize that Father Time always wins, but he's not winning so far with Abreu . . . games yesterday and pretty much this entire year show this. Keep Abreu, pay enough to keep him happy (don't insult him with a low-ball offer of forcing him out of playing 1st base) and let's keep him doing what he did yesterday, both games, let's keep him doing that for a few more years. You guys were willing to give a total dick like Machado over 30 million a year for 10 years, but now you're wanting to nickel and dime a loyal soldier who has been here for the worst of the rebuild? Come on; it makes no sense. Edited July 4, 2019 by vilehoopster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 1 minute ago, vilehoopster said: People trying to force Abreu into only DHing or not paying him what he wants are arguing two BIG assumptions as if they were total facts. And they're not facts and really very questionable. 1st assumption: Vaughn is gonna be great and he's gonna be here next year. There's a lot of doubt to both parts of this assumption. I think he's gonna be really good, but we can't assume that like it's a fact. Do I need to bring up some other Sox 1st round draft results? Jake Burger, Burdi, Carson Fulmer; anyone seen Keon Barnum lately? Now, I don't think Vaugh is gonna be a bust; but it's totally unrealistic to think he's going to be playing 1st base for the White Sox next year. It could happen, but because of so many different factors, the odds are really low of that happening. 2nd assumption: Abreu is now on or is about to begin on some sort of speedy downward slope of his abilities, both hitting and fielding, that he's about to suddenly be too old to be any good. I understand that he's over 30, but he far from old. And he's having the best year of his career right now, this year. There is no indication that his skills are failing. I realize that Father Time always wins, but he's not winning so far with Abreu . . . games yesterday and pretty much this entire year show this. Keep Abreu, pay enough to keep him happy (don't insult him with a low-ball offer of forcing him out of playing 1st base) and let's keep him doing what he did yesterday, both games, let's keep him doing that for a few more years. You guys were willing to give a total dick like Machado over 30 million a year for 10 years, but now you're wanting to nickel and dime a loyal soldier who has been here for the worst of the rebuild? Come on; it makes no sense. Burdi and Barnum weren't first round picks. Burger's career has been hampered by injuries, and it isn't done yet. Weak ass argument. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 1 hour ago, vilehoopster said: People trying to force Abreu into only DHing or not paying him what he wants are arguing two BIG assumptions as if they were total facts. And they're not facts and really very questionable. 1st assumption: Vaughn is gonna be great and he's gonna be here next year. There's a lot of doubt to both parts of this assumption. I think he's gonna be really good, but we can't assume that like it's a fact. Do I need to bring up some other Sox 1st round draft results? Jake Burger, Burdi, Carson Fulmer; anyone seen Keon Barnum lately? Now, I don't think Vaugh is gonna be a bust; but it's totally unrealistic to think he's going to be playing 1st base for the White Sox next year. It could happen, but because of so many different factors, the odds are really low of that happening. 2nd assumption: Abreu is now on or is about to begin on some sort of speedy downward slope of his abilities, both hitting and fielding, that he's about to suddenly be too old to be any good. I understand that he's over 30, but he far from old. And he's having the best year of his career right now, this year. There is no indication that his skills are failing. I realize that Father Time always wins, but he's not winning so far with Abreu . . . games yesterday and pretty much this entire year show this. Keep Abreu, pay enough to keep him happy (don't insult him with a low-ball offer of forcing him out of playing 1st base) and let's keep him doing what he did yesterday, both games, let's keep him doing that for a few more years. You guys were willing to give a total dick like Machado over 30 million a year for 10 years, but now you're wanting to nickel and dime a loyal soldier who has been here for the worst of the rebuild? Come on; it makes no sense. Gotta disagree with pretty much this entire post. Calling this Abreu’s best year is simply wrong and you completely ignored the fact he’s always been a bad defensive 1B. And comparing Vaughn, one of the most polished college bats in recent memory, to Keon Barnum is perhaps one of the biggest stretches in SoxTalk history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 On 7/2/2019 at 12:33 PM, Quin said: People that are able to do research and have evolving opinions. I'll bet I've done more research than 90% of hard core baseball fans and I absolutely HATE sabermetrics. I guess I'm still an ape. Now as to the poster who mentioned RBIs. When we compute say a batting average we have a number that corresponds to 1.000 which would be a hit in every official at bat. Every time a batter comes up he has the potential to have at least one rbi. Figure out his rbi percentage like we do his BA and you'll more than likely see that those guys with hi rbi totals have them for a very good reason. They are productive with men on base. My biggest gripe with sabermetrics aside from the snide arrogance of its devotees is that the thumb is on the scale on all of their most hallowed stats. Not only that but these stats are continually revised as this or that formula is "tweaked." Kind of like Winston Smith and his job in the records department of the Ministry of Truth. Did you know that WAR has been recalculated numerous times? Baseball-Reference twice had massive readjustments in their Pitching and Fielding WAR stats. The way the all time rankings shifted was breathtaking and ridiculous at the same time. When I called them on it, asked for an explanation in detail they pretty much told me I was an idiot and go run along and play. Now as to the subject at hand. I will never understand the vitriol so many Sox fans have had for Jose Abreu. He is the most productive hitter on the team since Frank Thomas. HIs BA has been down a bit this year but he has always been streaky and he's a hot streak or two away from approaching .300 at the plate. His defense is suspect but I like the way he scoops, and that is very important for me when it comes to a first baseman. Tim Anderson in particular owes him a bunch of steak dinners or arroz con pollo if Jose prefers something like that. He deserves his spot on the AL all star team. I know this post will sink my already low rating down even further. I've been in love with data, stats of all kind since I was 6 and 1/2 years old and to me saying sabermetrics/analytics whatever is highly flawed is the understatement of the year. At least they still count wins and losses the old fashioned way. I wonder how long that will even last in today's bizarro world. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vilehoopster Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) "Burdi and Barnum weren't first round picks. Burger's career has been hampered by injuries, and it isn't done yet. Weak ass argument." I got it off of Wikipedia; they were both supplemental 1st round picks. But you're right that the Sox 1st round picks are always instant successes . . . . cough, cough . . . . Jared Mitchell, Gordon Beckham, and Lance Broadway. "Vaughn, one of the most polished college bats in recent memory, " -- Oh, polished, You mean like Gordon Beckham was continually described coming out of college But let's be honest. Do you really believe Vaughn will be playing 1st base for the White Sox next year? Really? So that Abreu has to go full time DH? Edited July 4, 2019 by vilehoopster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 30 minutes ago, vilehoopster said: "Burdi and Barnum weren't first round picks. Burger's career has been hampered by injuries, and it isn't done yet. Weak ass argument." I got it off of Wikipedia; they were both supplemental 1st round picks. But you're right that the Sox 1st round picks are always instant successes . . . . cough, cough . . . . Jared Mitchell, Gordon Beckham, and Lance Broadway. "Vaughn, one of the most polished college bats in recent memory, " -- Oh, polished, You mean like Gordon Beckham was continually described coming out of college But let's be honest. Do you really believe Vaughn will be playing 1st base for the White Sox next year? Really? So that Abreu has to go full time DH? Jose Abreu, in order to stay with the White Sox for the foreseeable future, needs to be ready to DH regularly. Vaughn looks to be 10 times the player Beckham was projected to be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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