Let's talk about White Sox promotions and baseball promotions

[TomPickle]

To the people in this thread that think the Sox are unlikely to keep Robert after he's no longer arb eligible: what makes you think Giolito, Moncada, Kopech, and Anderson will still be around then?

7/8 years from now is a complete and total crapshoot. Getting an extra year of service from Robert doesn't move the needle for me.

Edited July 2, 2019 by TomPickle

[poppysox]

42 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Ha. Next ownership maybe.

Jerry is 83 years old.  He wants the rebuild to happen as fast as possible I would think.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

A very rare thread where good, quality discussion is being had. Actually going to bring me out of posting hibernation, so well done. 

It’s a complicated discussion where both sides have valid points. A few things I would consider: 

- Robert is a phenomenal, almost freak athlete. Those are rare. Take someone like a Aaron Rowand. A guy that’s played baseball his whole life but never filled with a ton of skill. Grinded it out at every level, developed his skill set and eventually had a productive ML career. He’s a guy that if you brought up too early, in my opinion, never overcomes the initial struggles you face upon entering MLB. I don’t believe that’s the case with a guy like Robert. That’s a long way of me saying in this case, calling him up and letting him take his lumps at the ML level shouldn’t be very harmful to any long term development. 

- The Sox are also allowed see Robert struggle because of where they are in their rebuilding process. If this team was in a true playoff chase and had a fairly set roster, I would say continue to let Robert develop in the minor leagues. I don’t think his development is being stunted in the minors right now, but with 2019 still a development year for the organization, it allows players to struggle at the ML level. Moncada is the perfect example. 

- Lastly, my opinion has changed on service time. Someone mentioned “If you call him up early, you burn a year of service time in his prime and he reaches FA early.” My response at this point is so what? So Robert turns into a Star and ownership has to pay superstar money to keep him. Good. They should. We’ve spent enough time being in the bottom 1/3 of payrolls, if Robert turns into a Star, pay him.

If the Sox feel right now Robert can handle ML pitching and can get their ML coaching staff involved on a daily basis with Robert, get him to Chicago.

Really great post (not because you agree with some of my thoughts but because you presented your thoughts and supported them reasonably and under control) and I appreciate you chiming in. 

I take elongated breas from message boards and the internet frequently because the confrontational style and personal jabs over opinions grows tiresome. I appreciate everyone being respectful and listening. We all want to be right and have our opinions heard - its human nature - which leads to some shouting down the thoughts of others. That hasn't happened here. 

I remember as a kid finding it annoying when I made a point and my old man asked me to substantiate it... sometimes as internet strangers we find it easier to shout down those who dont agree with us - frequently belittling them - instead of substantiating our opinions and listening to those who dissent. I'm glad that hasn't happened and appreciate the cordial discourse. Good companies, teams and organizations are full of people who have different trains of thought. It's the culmination of those thoughts being implemented with all in mind that separates the successful from the unsuccessful things in life imo.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

46 minutes ago, TomPickle said:

To the people in this thread that think the Sox are unlikely to keep Robert after he's no longer arb eligible: what makes you think Giolito, Moncada, Kopech, and Anderson will still be around then?

7/8 years from now is a complete and total crapshoot. Getting an extra year of service from Robert doesn't move the needle for me.

To further this point, this team can afford to keep all of its stars - especially when winning. The sox crying poor should not be a reason to hold a player down when he is deserving and ready for the opportunity. 

Its funny because I am frequently cited as pro-ownership and supporting the front office but I am probably the most player-friendly person here. It's not that others arent player friendly, but it's because the game is made by the players and they deserve as much of the piece of the pie as humanly possible. I didnt play baseball for 20 years in hope of becoming rick hahn one day and screwing a kid out of a year of mlb pay that he deserves. 

What it robert comes one year from the top level of mlb retirement benefits and then gets hurt ending his career? Those thoughts bother me. At any other profession on earth I wouldnt be held down just to keep my salary suppressed - that would be illegal. Just because they're richer than me doesnt mean that shouldnt share the same rights.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Bob Sacamano]

One other thing I have thought of is if the CBA changes in the offseason and guys have less control when they come up to the majors, would guys already in the MLB be grandfathered in under old rules? That would almost seem like a reason to rush guys up.

Edited July 2, 2019 by soxfan2014

[ChiSox59]

22 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

One other thing I have thought of is if the CBA changes in the offseason and guys have less control when they come up to the majors, would guys already in the MLB be grandfathered in under old rules? That would almost seem like a reason to rush guys up.

The current cba runs through 2021, so it’s most certainly not an issue for Robert. 

 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

The current cba runs through 2021, so it’s most certainly not an issue for Robert. 

 

 

They were meeting pretty recent to make changes though. Similar to how they did this past offseason with those new rule changes for next year, which would be before it expires.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/06/mlb-mlbpa-launching-bargaining-talks.html

Edited July 2, 2019 by soxfan2014

[ChiSox59]

16 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This once again would mean you think he's ready but want to exploit his service time and labor. That excuse is not valid since it is against the cba even if it does happen.

I agree plenty of cant miss guys fail but robert has that safety blanket like Buxton. Roberts tools are simply otherworldly. If you had a power centric prospect with Robert's power and hit grade youd have a potential + big leaguer. If you had a speed first centerfield prospect with his speed, defense and arm grade youd have a legit prospect. 

If he doesnt hit for average hes a 3 WAR player rolling out of bed with his baserunning, defense and home run threat. If he doesnt steal bases as well or run as effectively but he has an 800 ops with great CF defense you have a 3-4 WAR player. He can contribute in so many facets of the game that you could be horribly wrong about two of his grades and he'd still be mike cameron.

The biggest issue I have with your stance - though to be clear, I totally see where you're coming from - is your complete unwillingness to even consider the ramifications of service time.  Controlling service time is a very big part of the game as currently constructed, and to just ignore it because you don't see it as a valid avenue of extracting value for an organization, is frankly kind of silly.  I have not read the cba word for word, but based on how prevalent suppressing service time has been across the league over the past several seasons, it seems to be that it must not be directly against the cba.  There is no clear definition of when a player is ready for the big leagues.  That is a purely subjective measure.  The White Sox could point to a laundry list of things they want to see Robert improve on before his promotion to the big leagues - his ability to take a walk and cutting down on strikeouts are two easy ones - but being able to stay on the field for more than a couple months stint is definitely another. Let's not forget that 2018 was basically a lost season for Luis, and the first couple months of the 2019 season is the first time he's shown an ability to both stay on the field, and perform at a high level, in his professional career.  

I too am very excited for Robert.  If they called him up tomorrow, I'd be excited, though I would think the move would be shortsighted. I think he is definitely good enough to be at least a replacement level player right now, which frankly is as good as we have in CF (with Leury at SS currently) or in RF.  But I really don't think needs at the major league level in a below .500 season should dictate how quickly we move such a prized asset to the organization.  You may not like Hahn, but he has said as such so many times.  I am also not of the belief that 200 or whatever at bats in the majors in 2019 is going to measurably change what Robert produces during his White Sox tenure. I do think it could have some benefit to his initial 2020 performance, but I don't see it making much of a long term difference.  I see 2020 as a slight improvement on 2019 for the Sox.  I am hopeful the Sox go balls to the walls in FA this offseason to build a team that can truly compete with the Indians and Twins for the division - but I also think it is fair to be skeptical that will happen, until well....it does.  Based on that belief, I think giving Robert - and likely Madrigal - May-September 2020 to get their feet wet is totally fine.  Without adding $75-80M to the 2020 payroll, it was never going to be better than a .500ish team anyway.  

It's a good discussion to have.  I personally see both sides of it, but for me, I am okay waiting until next May.  I have bought into the rebuild, and these things take time.  I don't want to see the process rushed at the latter stages due to impatience. I have seen several people say they don't really care about the 2026 season.  But I do.  For me, it boils down to something as simple as this team is going nowhere in 2019 - so I'd much rather have a guy that could be an elite player for a potentially full season in 2026 than for half a season in 2019.  But I also think there is plenty for Robert to learn in the minor leagues.  He is a 21 year old kid after all.  He doesn't have a long history of sustained minor league success.  He's struggled to stay healthy.  He isn't rotting away playing in AA another month, and then perhaps getting the nod up to AAA for the last 45 days or so of the season.  I personally am not of the belief that he has nothing left to learn in the minors. Then there is the Eloy situation.  The Sox have clearly shown how they plan to handle elite offensive prospects during the rebuild process, so to expect them to do a complete 180 with Robert mere months later seems like a significant stretch.  Again, you may not have liked it - but you can't just ignore it.  

One thing I do know is that It'll be a fun day on the Southside when Robert makes his debut, and we all have that to look forward to.  The future remains bright, and Robert is a big part of that.    

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

18 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Seriously, though.  And Eloy had 3x the minor league at bats.  The Sox have clearly shown how they plan to handle their elite offensive talents.  I don't know why anybody expects anything different here.  I could see them becoming more aggressive when they're actually competing for divisions and happen to find themselves with an elite positional talent, but not right now.  

I am generally on your side in this. Just too few healthy PA's for Robert. We all are seeing that Robert will have the same problem as Eloy with the down and away breaking pitches But something you said made this click . Eloy had 3 X the minor league AB's and that still didn't help his ability to hit the MLB slider ? Why ? Because he wasn't seeing the best sliders in the world in AAA. Robert also plays with abandon, flying around in the OF and stealing bases.

I'm really torn on this subject, I'd love to see him cut down on the K's and increase the walks in the minors for plate discipline reasons. I want him to also recognize those nasty breaking pitches earlier and what to look for in order to determine that they are not recognized in his head as fastballs. Baseball is one game that takes guys with great athletic abilities, a guy like Robert with quick reflexes, great hand eye coordination and embarrasses the hell out of them by taking advantages of the physical gifts and tricking him into using them . Can you learn to lay off more of those pitches by getting more experience in learning about when you should expect those kinds of pitches ?  Once a pitcher gets ahead in the count you get exploited and your natural gifts are used against you. Jump on that 1st pitch fstball becuse he won't be seeing many once he gets behind in the count.

Health is now always a question and he is healthy now. I fear waiting will just give him more chances to make a mess of his body. Yes I am paranoid now about injuries.

I think he can learn more in the minors but he has to work on them and success often breeds contempt for change. He might have to experience the embarassment and failures of hitting against big league pitching in order to take changing seriously.

[mqr]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

The biggest issue I have with your stance - though to be clear, I totally see where you're coming from - is your complete unwillingness to even consider the ramifications of service time.  Controlling service time is a very big part of the game as currently constructed, and to just ignore it because you don't see it as a valid avenue of extracting value for an organization, is frankly kind of silly.  I have not read the cba word for word, but based on how prevalent suppressing service time has been across the league over the past several seasons, it seems to be that it must not be directly against the cba.  There is no clear definition of when a player is ready for the big leagues.  That is a purely subjective measure.  The White Sox could point to a laundry list of things they want to see Robert improve on before his promotion to the big leagues - his ability to take a walk and cutting down on strikeouts are two easy ones - but being able to stay on the field for more than a couple months stint is definitely another. Let's not forget that 2018 was basically a lost season for Luis, and the first couple months of the 2019 season is the first time he's shown an ability to both stay on the field, and perform at a high level, in his professional career.  

I too am very excited for Robert.  If they called him up tomorrow, I'd be excited, though I would think the move would be shortsighted. I think he is definitely good enough to be at least a replacement level player right now, which frankly is as good as we have in CF (with Leury at SS currently) or in RF.  But I really don't think needs at the major league level in a below .500 season should dictate how quickly we move such a prized asset to the organization.  You may not like Hahn, but he has said as such so many times.  I am also not of the belief that 200 or whatever at bats in the majors in 2019 is going to measurably change what Robert produces during his White Sox tenure. I do think it could have some benefit to his initial 2020 performance, but I don't see it making much of a long term difference.  I see 2020 as a slight improvement on 2019 for the Sox.  I am hopeful the Sox go balls to the walls in FA this offseason to build a team that can truly compete with the Indians and Twins for the division - but I also think it is fair to be skeptical that will happen, until well....it does.  Based on that belief, I think giving Robert - and likely Madrigal - May-September 2020 to get their feet wet is totally fine.  Without adding $75-80M to the 2020 payroll, it was never going to be better than a .500ish team anyway.  

It's a good discussion to have.  I personally see both sides of it, but for me, I am okay waiting until next May.  I have bought into the rebuild, and these things take time.  I don't want to see the process rushed at the latter stages due to impatience. I have seen several people say they don't really care about the 2026 season.  But I do.  For me, it boils down to something as simple as this team is going nowhere in 2019 - so I'd much rather have a guy that could be an elite player for a potentially full season in 2026 than for half a season in 2019.  But I also think there is plenty for Robert to learn in the minor leagues.  He is a 21 year old kid after all.  He doesn't have a long history of sustained minor league success.  He's struggled to stay healthy.  He isn't rotting away playing in AA another month, and then perhaps getting the nod up to AAA for the last 45 days or so of the season.  I personally am not of the belief that he has nothing left to learn in the minors. Then there is the Eloy situation.  The Sox have clearly shown how they plan to handle elite offensive prospects during the rebuild process, so to expect them to do a complete 180 with Robert mere months later seems like a significant stretch.  Again, you may not have liked it - but you can't just ignore it.  

 One thing I do know is that It'll be a fun day on the Southside when Robert makes his debut, and we all have that to look forward to.  The future remains bright, and Robert is a big part of that.    

It's not that I don't care about 2026, it's that I don't want to punt 2020 chasing it because it's pretty clear to me that they didn't have to punt 2019. And I fully acknowledge there's no way he comes up this year. I'm also operating under the assumption the White Sox would have determined he can come up now, and are holding him down. They very well could be keeping him down for actual developmental reasons. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by mqr

[SonofaRoache]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

The biggest issue I have with your stance - though to be clear, I totally see where you're coming from - is your complete unwillingness to even consider the ramifications of service time.  Controlling service time is a very big part of the game as currently constructed, and to just ignore it because you don't see it as a valid avenue of extracting value for an organization, is frankly kind of silly.  I have not read the cba word for word, but based on how prevalent suppressing service time has been across the league over the past several seasons, it seems to be that it must not be directly against the cba.  There is no clear definition of when a player is ready for the big leagues.  That is a purely subjective measure.  The White Sox could point to a laundry list of things they want to see Robert improve on before his promotion to the big leagues - his ability to take a walk and cutting down on strikeouts are two easy ones - but being able to stay on the field for more than a couple months stint is definitely another. Let's not forget that 2018 was basically a lost season for Luis, and the first couple months of the 2019 season is the first time he's shown an ability to both stay on the field, and perform at a high level, in his professional career.  

I too am very excited for Robert.  If they called him up tomorrow, I'd be excited, though I would think the move would be shortsighted. I think he is definitely good enough to be at least a replacement level player right now, which frankly is as good as we have in CF (with Leury at SS currently) or in RF.  But I really don't think needs at the major league level in a below .500 season should dictate how quickly we move such a prized asset to the organization.  You may not like Hahn, but he has said as such so many times.  I am also not of the belief that 200 or whatever at bats in the majors in 2019 is going to measurably change what Robert produces during his White Sox tenure. I do think it could have some benefit to his initial 2020 performance, but I don't see it making much of a long term difference.  I see 2020 as a slight improvement on 2019 for the Sox.  I am hopeful the Sox go balls to the walls in FA this offseason to build a team that can truly compete with the Indians and Twins for the division - but I also think it is fair to be skeptical that will happen, until well....it does.  Based on that belief, I think giving Robert - and likely Madrigal - May-September 2020 to get their feet wet is totally fine.  Without adding $75-80M to the 2020 payroll, it was never going to be better than a .500ish team anyway.  

It's a good discussion to have.  I personally see both sides of it, but for me, I am okay waiting until next May.  I have bought into the rebuild, and these things take time.  I don't want to see the process rushed at the latter stages due to impatience. I have seen several people say they don't really care about the 2026 season.  But I do.  For me, it boils down to something as simple as this team is going nowhere in 2019 - so I'd much rather have a guy that could be an elite player for a potentially full season in 2026 than for half a season in 2019.  But I also think there is plenty for Robert to learn in the minor leagues.  He is a 21 year old kid after all.  He doesn't have a long history of sustained minor league success.  He's struggled to stay healthy.  He isn't rotting away playing in AA another month, and then perhaps getting the nod up to AAA for the last 45 days or so of the season.  I personally am not of the belief that he has nothing left to learn in the minors. Then there is the Eloy situation.  The Sox have clearly shown how they plan to handle elite offensive prospects during the rebuild process, so to expect them to do a complete 180 with Robert mere months later seems like a significant stretch.  Again, you may not have liked it - but you can't just ignore it.  

One thing I do know is that It'll be a fun day on the Southside when Robert makes his debut, and we all have that to look forward to.  The future remains bright, and Robert is a big part of that.    

I think if we want to contend next season, then they need to be up by opening day next year. Two weeks of having guys down can cost you a division, not to mention the experience they'd get this year. If you lose 2020 for contending, then you essentially lost a year anyway. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by SonofaRoache

[SonofaRoache]

53 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I am generally on your side in this. Just too few healthy PA's for Robert. We all are seeing that Robert will have the same problem as Eloy with the down and away breaking pitches But something you said made this click . Eloy had 3 X the minor league AB's and that still didn't help his ability to hit the MLB slider ? Why ? Because he wasn't seeing the best sliders in the world in AAA. Robert also plays with abandon, flying around in the OF and stealing bases.

I'm really torn on this subject, I'd love to see him cut down on the K's and increase the walks in the minors for plate discipline reasons. I want him to also recognize those nasty breaking pitches earlier and what to look for in order to determine that they are not recognized in his head as fastballs. Baseball is one game that takes guys with great athletic abilities, a guy like Robert with quick reflexes, great hand eye coordination and embarrasses the hell out of them by taking advantages of the physical gifts and tricking him into using them . Can you learn to lay off more of those pitches by getting more experience in learning about when you should expect those kinds of pitches ?  Once a pitcher gets ahead in the count you get exploited and your natural gifts are used against you. Jump on that 1st pitch fstball becuse he won't be seeing many once he gets behind in the count.

Health is now always a question and he is healthy now. I fear waiting will just give him more chances to make a mess of his body. Yes I am paranoid now about injuries.

I think he can learn more in the minors but he has to work on them and success often breeds contempt for change. He might have to experience the embarassment and failures of hitting against big league pitching in order to take changing seriously.

I agree completely. I don't think Robert or Madrigal can learn much more in the minors and need the time here now to be ready next season. I'd rather be ready for 2020 while baseball seems to be a little down than to save for 2026.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, mqr said:

It's not that I don't care about 2026, it's that I don't want to punt 2020 chasing it because it's pretty clear to me that they didn't have to punt 2019. And I fully acknowledge there's no way he comes up this year. I'm also operating under the assumption the White Sox would have determined he can come up now, and are holding him down. They very well could be keeping him down for actual developmental reasons. 

It doesn't compute to me how Robert spending a month of 2020 in the minors "punts" the entire season.  If the Sox punt 2020, its because they didn't sign a legitimate front end SP, a backend SP and RF on the FA market.  It won't be because they didn't rush Robert to the big leagues.  

[steveno89]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

It doesn't compute to me how Robert spending a month of 2020 in the minors "punts" the entire season.  If the Sox punt 2020, its because they didn't sign a legitimate front end SP, a backend SP and RF on the FA market.  It won't be because they didn't rush Robert to the big leagues.  

Sox should be looking to contend in 2020 given they are "around" .500 in 2019 already. They should absolutely be players in free agency as they look to fill holes. 

Robert and Madrigal should both be pushing for the majors by May/June next season at this rate. Kopech should be ready to go, Cease will be up. 

[Texsox]

On 7/1/2019 at 6:10 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This once again would mean you think he's ready but want to exploit his service time and labor. That excuse is not valid since it is against the cba even if it does happen.

I agree plenty of cant miss guys fail but robert has that safety blanket like Buxton. Roberts tools are simply otherworldly. If you had a power centric prospect with Robert's power and hit grade youd have a potential + big leaguer. If you had a speed first centerfield prospect with his speed, defense and arm grade youd have a legit prospect. 

If he doesnt hit for average hes a 3 WAR player rolling out of bed with his baserunning, defense and home run threat. If he doesnt steal bases as well or run as effectively but he has an 800 ops with great CF defense you have a 3-4 WAR player. He can contribute in so many facets of the game that you could be horribly wrong about two of his grades and he'd still be mike cameron.

No, I don't think he's ready. The by product of that is an extra season at a higher performing level. A win for the organization.

If he was in most organizations there wouldn't even be a discussion about bringing him up. Most of your argument centers around he's the best in the organization at his position. His readiness, or lack of readiness, should not have anything to do with the players above him. That places the current needs of the team above his development. 

In the minors his development is the top priority. If that means a dip in production while he experiments, that's ok. Once he starts playing at the MLB level the team winning becomes #1. 

You want to place the team above the player. With this team, I don't see the need. Keep his development number one.

[poppysox]

On 7/1/2019 at 4:36 PM, Jack Parkman said:

Then we are in agreement. Robert has nothing left to learn in the minors that can't be learned at 35th and Shields. If you bring him up now. You have an opportunity to add 2020 to that window. 

Won't be long now.?

 

[caulfield12]

On 7/2/2019 at 7:52 AM, ChiSox59 said:

The biggest issue I have with your stance - though to be clear, I totally see where you're coming from - is your complete unwillingness to even consider the ramifications of service time.  Controlling service time is a very big part of the game as currently constructed, and to just ignore it because you don't see it as a valid avenue of extracting value for an organization, is frankly kind of silly.  I have not read the cba word for word, but based on how prevalent suppressing service time has been across the league over the past several seasons, it seems to be that it must not be directly against the cba.  There is no clear definition of when a player is ready for the big leagues.  That is a purely subjective measure.  The White Sox could point to a laundry list of things they want to see Robert improve on before his promotion to the big leagues - his ability to take a walk and cutting down on strikeouts are two easy ones - but being able to stay on the field for more than a couple months stint is definitely another. Let's not forget that 2018 was basically a lost season for Luis, and the first couple months of the 2019 season is the first time he's shown an ability to both stay on the field, and perform at a high level, in his professional career.  

I too am very excited for Robert.  If they called him up tomorrow, I'd be excited, though I would think the move would be shortsighted. I think he is definitely good enough to be at least a replacement level player right now, which frankly is as good as we have in CF (with Leury at SS currently) or in RF.  But I really don't think needs at the major league level in a below .500 season should dictate how quickly we move such a prized asset to the organization.  You may not like Hahn, but he has said as such so many times.  I am also not of the belief that 200 or whatever at bats in the majors in 2019 is going to measurably change what Robert produces during his White Sox tenure. I do think it could have some benefit to his initial 2020 performance, but I don't see it making much of a long term difference.  I see 2020 as a slight improvement on 2019 for the Sox.  I am hopeful the Sox go balls to the walls in FA this offseason to build a team that can truly compete with the Indians and Twins for the division - but I also think it is fair to be skeptical that will happen, until well....it does.  Based on that belief, I think giving Robert - and likely Madrigal - May-September 2020 to get their feet wet is totally fine.  Without adding $75-80M to the 2020 payroll, it was never going to be better than a .500ish team anyway.  

It's a good discussion to have.  I personally see both sides of it, but for me, I am okay waiting until next May.  I have bought into the rebuild, and these things take time.  I don't want to see the process rushed at the latter stages due to impatience. I have seen several people say they don't really care about the 2026 season.  But I do.  For me, it boils down to something as simple as this team is going nowhere in 2019 - so I'd much rather have a guy that could be an elite player for a potentially full season in 2026 than for half a season in 2019.  But I also think there is plenty for Robert to learn in the minor leagues.  He is a 21 year old kid after all.  He doesn't have a long history of sustained minor league success.  He's struggled to stay healthy.  He isn't rotting away playing in AA another month, and then perhaps getting the nod up to AAA for the last 45 days or so of the season.  I personally am not of the belief that he has nothing left to learn in the minors. Then there is the Eloy situation.  The Sox have clearly shown how they plan to handle elite offensive prospects during the rebuild process, so to expect them to do a complete 180 with Robert mere months later seems like a significant stretch.  Again, you may not have liked it - but you can't just ignore it.  

One thing I do know is that It'll be a fun day on the Southside when Robert makes his debut, and we all have that to look forward to.  The future remains bright, and Robert is a big part of that.    

The biggest argument for Robert now is what exactly is our core after 2023?  

While 2021-23 (barring amazing pitching investments in FA, 2020 is still a learning how to win/development year) is a short/er window compared to the originally hoped for 4-5 years...it’s probably more realistic for the typically mid-market Sox.

If they start breaking out extensions for McCann, Moncada and Robert, then the LONGer term contention window is at least realistic.

But then look at the Cubs and Indians...just three years removed from their World Series season and barely hanging on.

Lots of good arguments, such as Reinsdorf’s advanced age.

So, emulate the Padres...who have brought up six and counting Top 100 milb prospects in one year, doing this all in the face of perhaps the most dominantly-positioned organization in baseball, the Dodgers.  Light up the fanbase.  Break the internet.  Clap back on doubters, etc.   Really crank up the pressure on Epstein/Maddon/Ricketts as the Cubs are simultaneously going to start demanding $80 more per year from baseball and non-baseball fans alike in Chicagoland from cable and satellite providers.

To conclude, the main reason for me to push Madrigal and Robert and Vaughn...there’s simply way too much volatility going forward with almost the entire future rotation with one TJS in their histories, and knowing a revision cuts the odds of successful return down to the 60-65% range.  Let’s just call this the Mets’ “2014-15 pitching dynasty” argument.

Edited July 5, 2019 by caulfield12

[kitekrazy]

Promoting guys just entering AA to the majors......I don't get it.  

[mqr]

13 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Promoting guys just entering AA to the majors......I don't get it.  

Plenty of people would argue AAA is an unnecessary step. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, mqr said:

Plenty of people would argue AAA is an unnecessary step. 

Especially with this team where AA is a much harder hitting environment than AAA.

[poppysox]

4 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Especially with this team where AA is a much harder hitting environment than AAA.

I believe the mentoring they would receive from Abreu and McCann can greatly aid Robert and Madrigal's learning curve.  Probably faster growth than playing time against lessor talents.