Two Sides to the Trade & Free Agent Coin

[Thomas_Ventura_Roberts]

Most trades are designed to provide a situational benefit to both clubs, and most free agent signings do something similar in terms of short-term benefit.  Every once in awhile, a trade or free agent signing is going to seem quite good for ones club (Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton trades, the free agent signing of James McCann).  At other times, a trade or free agent signing will turn bad (Fernando Tatis Jr).  With regard to the latter, why do so many still dwell on that one.  It happened, and it is time to move on.  Even a trade like the Sale trade, which provided a lot of long-term value for us and also provided us value as we got players in the draft that we otherwise would not have gotten during the initial re-build phase.  In short, though, when is it time to concentrate on whom you have more than how you got them or whom you no longer have?

[poppysox]

5 minutes ago, Thomas_Ventura_Roberts said:

Most trades are designed to provide a situational benefit to both clubs, and most free agent signings do something similar in terms of short-term benefit.  Every once in awhile, a trade or free agent signing is going to seem quite good for ones club (Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton trades, the free agent signing of James McCann).  At other times, a trade or free agent signing will turn bad (Fernando Tatis Jr).  With regard to the latter, why do so many still dwell on that one.  It happened, and it is time to move on.  Even a trade like the Sale trade, which provided a lot of long-term value for us and also provided us value as we got players in the draft that we otherwise would not have gotten during the initial re-build phase.  In short, though, when is it time to concentrate on whom you have more than how you got them or whom you no longer have?

You are of course correct.  

[GenericUserName]

2 hours ago, Thomas_Ventura_Roberts said:

Most trades are designed to provide a situational benefit to both clubs, and most free agent signings do something similar in terms of short-term benefit.  Every once in awhile, a trade or free agent signing is going to seem quite good for ones club (Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton trades, the free agent signing of James McCann).  At other times, a trade or free agent signing will turn bad (Fernando Tatis Jr).  With regard to the latter, why do so many still dwell on that one.  It happened, and it is time to move on.  Even a trade like the Sale trade, which provided a lot of long-term value for us and also provided us value as we got players in the draft that we otherwise would not have gotten during the initial re-build phase.  In short, though, when is it time to concentrate on whom you have more than how you got them or whom you no longer have?

It seems to basically be a combination of the endowment effect and loss aversion.

Endowment effect states that people tend to value things they own more than an identical thing that they do not own. You will see this all the time when talking about prospects. You could propose a trade for two basically identical prospects and both fanbases would say the other team wasn't giving up enough. We always value our prospects more than if that same prospect were in a different organization.

Loss aversion is the tendency for people to get more dissatisfaction out of losing some amount of value than satisfaction from gaining that identical value. If you lost $100 you would lose more happiness than you would gain if you were to gain $100. Because of this, losses seem to hurt more than gains.

But one important way these two things compound is that loss aversion is not based on the true value you gained or lost, but on what your expectation was. So because the endowment effect shows that we tend to value our own players more than we should, our expectation is higher for them so any loss aversion has a higher starting point resulting in an even greater difference between the downside and upside.

TL;DR: Behavioral economics says that we will gain much less happiness from winning a trade than we will lose happiness for losing a trade, which seems to check out.

Edited July 4, 2019 by GenericUserName

[Two-Gun Pete]

3 hours ago, Thomas_Ventura_Roberts said:

At other times, a trade or free agent signing will turn bad (Fernando Tatis Jr).  With regard to the latter, why do so many still dwell on that one.  It happened, and it is time to move on.  

Well, for me, the fucking mouthbreathing morons that infect the front office dwell on like a chancre sore on a prostitute's mouth YEARS after they should have been fired.

We COULD move on, but the team hasn't "moved on" from all the imbeciles who are responsible for running this team into the ground. And though none of us here own the team, many of us have been fans longer than Hostetler, RH, KW, JR, and others have been here fucking things up. And their stupidity has attenuated the enjoyment of a team/product that is a part of our lives.

 

Again, you are free to fall all over yourself to accept mediocrity from this front office. YMMV.

[Panerista]

16 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Well, for me, the fucking mouthbreathing morons that infect the front office dwell on like a chancre sore on a prostitute's mouth YEARS after they should have been fired.

We COULD move on, but the team hasn't "moved on" from all the imbeciles who are responsible for running this team into the ground. And though none of us here own the team, many of us have been fans longer than Hostetler, RH, KW, JR, and others have been here fucking things up. And their stupidity has attenuated the enjoyment of a team/product that is a part of our lives.

 

Again, you are free to fall all over yourself to accept mediocrity from this front office. YMMV.

Jesus dude. We’re not making a western here

[Lip Man 1]

4 hours ago, Thomas_Ventura_Roberts said:

Most trades are designed to provide a situational benefit to both clubs, and most free agent signings do something similar in terms of short-term benefit.  Every once in awhile, a trade or free agent signing is going to seem quite good for ones club (Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton trades, the free agent signing of James McCann).  At other times, a trade or free agent signing will turn bad (Fernando Tatis Jr).  With regard to the latter, why do so many still dwell on that one.  It happened, and it is time to move on.  Even a trade like the Sale trade, which provided a lot of long-term value for us and also provided us value as we got players in the draft that we otherwise would not have gotten during the initial re-build phase.  In short, though, when is it time to concentrate on whom you have more than how you got them or whom you no longer have?

Simple answer...When the Sox start winning and acting like a major league organization. When (if) that happens losing Tatis Jr. will hurt but if the Sox are 20 games over and in the middle of a pennant race it won't hurt as much.

Until then, you are going to hear about it...often.

[Dam8610]

6 hours ago, GenericUserName said:

It seems to basically be a combination of the endowment effect and loss aversion.

Endowment effect states that people tend to value things they own more than an identical thing that they do not own. You will see this all the time when talking about prospects. You could propose a trade for two basically identical prospects and both fanbases would say the other team wasn't giving up enough. We always value our prospects more than if that same prospect were in a different organization.

Loss aversion is the tendency for people to get more dissatisfaction out of losing some amount of value than satisfaction from gaining that identical value. If you lost $100 you would lose more happiness than you would gain if you were to gain $100. Because of this, losses seem to hurt more than gains.

But one important way these two things compound is that loss aversion is not based on the true value you gained or lost, but on what your expectation was. So because the endowment effect shows that we tend to value our own players more than we should, our expectation is higher for them so any loss aversion has a higher starting point resulting in an even greater difference between the downside and upside.

TL;DR: Behavioral economics says that we will gain much less happiness from winning a trade than we will lose happiness for losing a trade, which seems to check out.

The specifics on loss aversion are that it takes a gain twice as large as a loss to experience the same level of feeling about the gain as the loss.

We can see this by looking at Sox fans reactions to the Quintana or Eaton trade and the Tatis Jr. trade.

[Richie]

10 hours ago, Thomas_Ventura_Roberts said:

Most trades are designed to provide a situational benefit to both clubs, and most free agent signings do something similar in terms of short-term benefit.  Every once in awhile, a trade or free agent signing is going to seem quite good for ones club (Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton trades, the free agent signing of James McCann).  At other times, a trade or free agent signing will turn bad (Fernando Tatis Jr).  With regard to the latter, why do so many still dwell on that one.  It happened, and it is time to move on.  Even a trade like the Sale trade, which provided a lot of long-term value for us and also provided us value as we got players in the draft that we otherwise would not have gotten during the initial re-build phase.  In short, though, when is it time to concentrate on whom you have more than how you got them or whom you no longer have?

There is zero doubt that we all need to move on from the damn Tatis trade. It happened and it's over. It's BEEN over. Would I like to have him? Of course, but we don't. I like where we're at, moving on now...

However, just to answer the question of "why?" do we still dwell on it.

It's not just that the trade wound up being so disastrously bad. First off, a lot of it is that James Shields performance had been pretty damn discouraging at the time we traded for him. He had been downright mediocre-to-subpar in one of the most pitcher friendly home ball parks in the national league. It's one thing to move a top prospect for a piece that helps you or could help you contend for a world series. It's a whole other thing to move a top prospect (in a year where you've already essentially fallen apart, nonetheless) for a guy that was rather clearly not better than what you had. At the very least, he appeared to only be a slight improvement. We "magically" just expected him to come here, unite with Coop and return to his TB/KC form. It was very confusing and I still don't get it. 

Again, even if Shields turned out to be steady/reliable as a middle of the rotation guy - our season was still heading into the shitter. That's why the trade still stands out like a sore thumb among others. Even at the time, it was head scratching to most fans. Then, it blew up far worse than we all had even imagined it could.

That's the difference to me. Other trades this organization has made, even if you disagree with them - you can at least follow a coherent train of thought with the FO. Even if it's wrong in your mind, there is SOME rationale behind it. There is SOME potential upside. With the Shields trade. My initial reaction was "WTF".... then my reaction after seeing Shields pitch was "What the f***ing f**k?". Then... we had to sit and watch Tatis develop. Hear his ass getting lapped by the usual outlets as a stud prospect. All the while Shields is the American League's punching bag. Then, he reaches the big leagues and he's EVERYTHING that he was hyped up to be and more. 

It wasn't just one clean head shot. Where you go "okay, we lost that one". We walked into a knife and it was twisted/turned for a few years before it was finally pulled out. With Tatis arriving and Shields having departed, I think we've all reached that acceptance phase. The wound is healing. But man, it DID suck on a different level. There's no reason to dwell on the trade at this point, that IS 100% silly. However, I think it's also pretty silly to try and rationalize it as not being all that bad. It wasn't "just another deal" where you can go "eh... win some, lose some". In order to move on from a tragedy, you have to accept the reality of it. lol

 

Like I said, though. I'm done with it. I'm going to try to make this the last thread that I address it. haha

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jerksticks]

29 minutes ago, Richie said:

There is zero doubt that we all need to move on from the damn Tatis trade. It happened and it's over. It's BEEN over. Would I like to have him? Of course, but we don't. I like where we're at, moving on now...

However, just to answer the question of "why?" do we still dwell on it.

It's not just that the trade wound up being so disastrously bad. First off, a lot of it is that James Shields performance had been pretty damn discouraging at the time we traded for him. He had been downright mediocre-to-subpar in one of the most pitcher friendly home ball parks in the national league. It's one thing to move a top prospect for a piece that helps you or could help you contend for a world series. It's a whole other thing to move a top prospect (in a year where you've already essentially fallen apart, nonetheless) for a guy that was rather clearly not better than what you had. At the very least, he appeared to only be a slight improvement. We "magically" just expected him to come here, unite with Coop and return to his TB/KC form. It was very confusing and I still don't get it. 

Again, even if Shields turned out to be steady/reliable as a middle of the rotation guy - our season was still heading into the shitter. That's why the trade still stands out like a sore thumb among others. Even at the time, it was head scratching to most fans. Then, it blew up far worse than we all had even imagined it could.

That's the difference to me. Other trades this organization has made, even if you disagree with them - you can at least follow a coherent train of thought with the FO. Even if it's wrong in your mind, there is SOME rationale behind it. There is SOME potential upside. With the Shields trade. My initial reaction was "WTF".... then my reaction after seeing Shields pitch was "What the f***ing f**k?". Then... we had to sit and watch Tatis develop. Hear his ass getting lapped by the usual outlets as a stud prospect. All the while Shields is the American League's punching bag. Then, he reaches the big leagues and he's EVERYTHING that he was hyped up to be and more. 

It wasn't just one clean head shot. Where you go "okay, we lost that one". We walked into a knife and it was twisted/turned for a few years before it was finally pulled out. With Tatis arriving and Shields having departed, I think we've all reached that acceptance phase. The wound is healing. But man, it DID suck on a different level. There's no reason to dwell on the trade at this point, that IS 100% silly. However, I think it's also pretty silly to try and rationalize it as not being all that bad. It wasn't "just another deal" where you can go "eh... win some, lose some". In order to move on from a tragedy, you have to accept the reality of it. lol

 

Like I said, though. I'm done with it. I'm going to try to make this the last thread that I address it. haha

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you touched on the point that bothers most of us- it’s that the trade was for James Shields.  Now most of us will admit that there isn’t even one person on these boards smart enough to be a GM- everyone here would be an absolute disaster.  But shit, I’m actually as close to 100% confident as I can be that not one of us would have traded for James Shields for anything more than taking on his salary.  He was getting bombed.   There was no upside.  It was obvious he sucked.  

 

 It it led us here. To this beautiful rebuild full of talent that will make everyone forget Tatis.  “Where’s he gonna play?”

Edited July 4, 2019 by Jerksticks

[thxfrthmmrs]

It also to do with all the players and all the trades mentioned, Tatis Jr might be the best young player of the bunch and that trade was worst of the bunch.

ESPN came out with their annual top 25 under 25 list the other day, FTJ was already ranked 3rd behind Bellinger and Acuna.

There is no telling how good the kid will be. As long as he is still making headline or god forbids becomes the best player on the league one day, Sox fans will not be able to look past this trade.

[michelangelosmonkey]

1 hour ago, Richie said:

There is zero doubt that we all need to move on from the damn Tatis trade. It happened and it's over. It's BEEN over. Would I like to have him? Of course, but we don't. I like where we're at, moving on now...

However, just to answer the question of "why?" do we still dwell on it.

It's not just that the trade wound up being so disastrously bad. First off, a lot of it is that James Shields performance had been pretty damn discouraging at the time we traded for him. He had been downright mediocre-to-subpar in one of the most pitcher friendly home ball parks in the national league. It's one thing to move a top prospect for a piece that helps you or could help you contend for a world series. It's a whole other thing to move a top prospect (in a year where you've already essentially fallen apart, nonetheless) for a guy that was rather clearly not better than what you had. At the very least, he appeared to only be a slight improvement. We "magically" just expected him to come here, unite with Coop and return to his TB/KC form. It was very confusing and I still don't get it. 

Again, even if Shields turned out to be steady/reliable as a middle of the rotation guy - our season was still heading into the shitter. That's why the trade still stands out like a sore thumb among others. Even at the time, it was head scratching to most fans. Then, it blew up far worse than we all had even imagined it could.

That's the difference to me. Other trades this organization has made, even if you disagree with them - you can at least follow a coherent train of thought with the FO. Even if it's wrong in your mind, there is SOME rationale behind it. There is SOME potential upside. With the Shields trade. My initial reaction was "WTF".... then my reaction after seeing Shields pitch was "What the f***ing f**k?". Then... we had to sit and watch Tatis develop. Hear his ass getting lapped by the usual outlets as a stud prospect. All the while Shields is the American League's punching bag. Then, he reaches the big leagues and he's EVERYTHING that he was hyped up to be and more. 

It wasn't just one clean head shot. Where you go "okay, we lost that one". We walked into a knife and it was twisted/turned for a few years before it was finally pulled out. With Tatis arriving and Shields having departed, I think we've all reached that acceptance phase. The wound is healing. But man, it DID suck on a different level. There's no reason to dwell on the trade at this point, that IS 100% silly. However, I think it's also pretty silly to try and rationalize it as not being all that bad. It wasn't "just another deal" where you can go "eh... win some, lose some". In order to move on from a tragedy, you have to accept the reality of it. lol

 

Like I said, though. I'm done with it. I'm going to try to make this the last thread that I address it. haha

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cole Hamels was virtually identical to Shields (former ace, 34 years old, 10+ ERA over the 5 starts before the trade, owed $20 mill a year for several years) after the trade he put up a 6 WAR over his next 30 starts.  If Shields had done that in 2016 with the generational greatness of Sale, Quintana with a higher WAR than Sale that year, Rodon soaring through the second half with a 7-3 record and a three man bullpen putting up a 5+ WAR... a wild card and hot play off run could have led to a 2015esque World Series.  All they gave up was a failed pitching prospect and a 17 year old who had never played a game for them and had not been ranked in the top 30 from that years International draft.  All things become clear in retrospect and the retrospect of this trade has been particularly brutal.    But it still seems to be a "eh...win some, lose some" issue.  

[Moan4Yoan]

It’s hard to move on.  If Tatis Jr. was simply a good player like a Semien, no one would have a big problem with it.  But Hahn traded a star, who is tearing up the league at 20 years old, for junk.  He is OPS’ing over 1.000.  He can hit for average, hit for power, steal bases, and play shortstop.  Last offseason, Hahn was trying to pay big bucks for the very type of player that he foolishly traded away.  To lose that type of franchise talent going forward for essentially nothing is a huge blow to this team.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[GreenSox]

Both sides of the trade were completely misguided and not well thought out.    Two-gun Pete basically explained the lingering issue in his colorful way:  the people who made that historically bad trade (and that wasn't their only blunder) are still running the operation.

Generic's endowment effect is interesting.  I think that explains why some people (such as me) don't like trading prospects in general.  And this FO doesn't have a dependable history with veterans.   The FO really needs to be alert to signs of decline before trading for them.  On the other hand, some age very well, and an astute FO is pretty good at discerning that.

[default]

53 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

It’s hard to move on.  If Tatis Jr. was simply a good player like a Semien, no one would have a big problem with it.  But Hahn traded a star, who is tearing up the league at 20 years old, for junk.  He is OPS’ing over 1.000.  He can hit for average, hit for power, steal bases, and play shortstop.  Last offseason, Hahn was trying to pay big bucks for the very type of player that he foolishly traded away.  To lose that type of franchise talent going forward for essentially nothing is a huge blow to this team.

It not hard to move on; you choose to make it hard by letting your mind run your life.  Letting things go, and moving on, is a learned skill..

 

[NWINFan]

I do think it is time to move on from the effects of the bad trades. It reminds me of Hawk getting riled up over every ball-strike call. Yes, it is frustrating when the ump blows a call, but I don't want to be driven nuts over it. I would like to enjoy the game without Hawk whining.

At the same time, I don't blame fans for being concerned. The rebuild is moving along better than I thought it would, but the Sox have a ways to go to join the ranks of the Yankees, Astros, Twins, and yes, even the Rays. Now it is time for the front office to seal the deal. Not every prospect will excel, veterans get old. The rebuild is no longer an excuse for inaction. I don't care about a draft pick position; it is time to contend.

Some fans claim money will be spent. We will see about that and how wisely it will be spent. The viability of this franchise depends on this rebuild. It is up to the front office to fully realize. How badly do they want to win?

 

[caulfield12]

Yep, it all depends on winning right now.

Cleveland is already considering a teardown, where Bauer would be first out the door...and Minnesota has to prove they’re willing to pony up in order to retain some of their key free agents.

Like the Sox, they also have a ton of youngsters like Berrios (already seems committed to FA), Rosario, Buxton, Polanco, Kepler, that are deserving of extensions, but it’s going to take an almost unprecedented opening of the wallet for a franchise that still is revenue-challenged to pull it off.

From my observations, the White Sox fanbase is almost equally excited to what Minnesotans are giving their runaway first place team in support.  Not a shocker, but a bit of a surprise.   I think losing all those playoff series and then the inconsistent results the last 2-3 years have kept their fans from buying in 100% until they actually prove they can win against the big boys or even the Rays in the postseason.

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance

Edited July 4, 2019 by caulfield12

[michelangelosmonkey]

Honestly...hard to move on?  Here is the White Sox team of 26 and under.  With almost no payroll.  Tatis is great...but come on guys.  This is going to be an epic run.  

1b	Andrew Vaughan	21
2b	Nick Madrigal	22
SS	Tim Anderson	26
3B	Yoan Moncado	24
C	Zack Collins	24
CF	Luis Robert	22
LF	Eloy Jimenez	22
RF	Blake Rutherford	22
SP	Michael Kopech	22
SP	Lucas Giolito	24
SP	Dylan Cease	23
SP	Dane Dunning	24
SP	Carlos Rodon	26
Closer	Bummer	25

 

[Dam8610]

24 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

It also to do with all the players and all the trades mentioned, Tatis Jr might be the best young player of the bunch and that trade was worst of the bunch.

ESPN came out with their annual top 25 under 25 list the other day, FTJ was already ranked 3rd behind Bellinger and Acuna.

There is no telling how good the kid will be. As long as he is still making headline or god forbids becomes the best player on the league one day, Sox fans will not be able to look past this trade.

I'll be happy to look past the trade if Moncada, Eloy, Robert, Madrigal, Vaughn, et al turn into murderer's row and Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Rodon, Lopez et al become the best pitching staff in baseball. Basically, if the Sox traded Mike Trout but then ended up with the LA Dodgers roster and farm, I don't think any of us would be upset. Same concept.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Honestly...hard to move on?  Here is the White Sox team of 26 and under.  With almost no payroll.  Tatis is great...but come on guys.  This is going to be an epic run.  

1b	Andrew Vaughan	21
2b	Nick Madrigal	22
SS	Tim Anderson	26
3B	Yoan Moncado	24
C	Zack Collins	24
CF	Luis Robert	22
LF	Eloy Jimenez	22
RF	Blake Rutherford	22
SP	Michael Kopech	22
SP	Lucas Giolito	24
SP	Dylan Cease	23
SP	Dane Dunning	24
SP	Carlos Rodon	26
Closer	Bummer	25

 

Collins, Rutherford, Dunning and Rodon could just as easily be out of baseball five years from now... and Kopech is a complete wild card whether he can figure out a happy medium in pitching vs. throwing max velocity as he starts his comeback.

[michelangelosmonkey]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Collins, Rutherford, Dunning and Rodon could just as easily be out of baseball five years from now... and Kopech is a complete wild card whether he can figure out a happy medium in pitching vs. throwing max velocity as he starts his comeback.

Good grief...the team plane could crash and we end up with nothing.  The negativity at this time is unbelievable.  You don't like Collins, Rutherford, Dunning and Rodon...Lopez is 25, Adolofo is 22, Basabe is 22, Hansen is 24, Burdi is 23...all with high ceilings and this is under 26.  McCann looks legit, Abreau is an All star.  And with a payroll...seems like getting someone like Greinke or Bumgarter is strongly possible.  We need to rejoice at the future...and not the future of Tatis.  

[Lip Man 1]

45 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Good grief...the team plane could crash and we end up with nothing.  The negativity at this time is unbelievable.  You don't like Collins, Rutherford, Dunning and Rodon...Lopez is 25, Adolofo is 22, Basabe is 22, Hansen is 24, Burdi is 23...all with high ceilings and this is under 26.  McCann looks legit, Abreau is an All star.  And with a payroll...seems like getting someone like Greinke or Bumgarter is strongly possible.  We need to rejoice at the future...and not the future of Tatis.  

Half of the guys you name are injured. Hansen appears to be a head-case and has lost his ability to pitch. Burdi also appears to be another high first round draft bust.

Not saying you are wrong but perhaps you need to try to find better names to use to make your argument. 

[michelangelosmonkey]

26 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Half of the guys you name are injured. Hansen appears to be a head-case and has lost his ability to pitch. Burdi also appears to be another high first round draft bust.

Not saying you are wrong but perhaps you need to try to find better names to use to make your argument. 

I filled the entire lineup, pitching staff and closer with guys 26 and under with star potential...and I got crap.  I added a half dozen more and you tell me I need to find better names.  Ok...Steele Walker, Gavin Sheets, Konnor Pilkington, Tyler Johnson, Luis Gonzalez, Jake Burger...oh wait...some of those guys have had a bad 40 games...they are trash (Hansen, like Giolito will never amount to anything.  Steele Walker, like Moncado will never develop power, Collins like Tyler Flowers will never be a quality catcher).  The White Sox are on the precipice  of something amazing and all half the board wants to do is complain about a 17 year old guy that was not in the top 30 international prospects in the year we signed him that became great.  Honestly...we don't spend enough time complaining about the draft where we didn't take Trout.     

[Thomas_Ventura_Roberts]

A lot of heavy duty analyses and commentary was provided on the various sides of this issue.  My take on the issue is simply that when I see someone good that we received in a trade, such as Jimenez, my thought pattern goes to combining him with Robert, Moncada, Anderson, Vaughn, Madrigal, etc..  Most of the time I don't think about his coming over in a great trade, and the reverse is true for bad trades or signings; but then I see in various places, such as Twitter, where something unrelated happens that is potentially good, and Tatis Jr. is brought up again.  Maybe I am just somewhat optimistic, but I tend to think that is cool when something works out, such as signing James McCann, and then just say oh well that some other moderate priced free agent did not work out. 

 

[poppysox]

On 7/4/2019 at 10:15 AM, default said:

It not hard to move on; you choose to make it hard by letting your mind run your life.  Letting things go, and moving on, is a learned skill..

 

I find focus on the positives to be helpful.  Not easy...but helpful.

[greg775]

On 7/3/2019 at 7:00 PM, Thomas_Ventura_Roberts said:

At other times, a trade or free agent signing will turn bad (Fernando Tatis Jr).  With regard to the latter, why do so many still dwell on that one.  It happened, and it is time to move on. 

In answer to your question, you can't move on from a trade that bad. It also is the same in the draft. Remember Durant vs. Oden? The GM that took Oden got fired after it was obvious Durant was Durant and Oden was unfortunately (because of injury) an all time bust. You can't ever forget a trade as bad as the Tatis trade because it's sports. The trade was that bad it can't be forgotten .... The good news is the Eloy trade is another one that will never be forgotten and that's on the good ledger. Both trades will go down in infamy. Because we're talking sports here, both trades will be remembered forever.

Edited July 6, 2019 by greg775