Leury Garcia

[tray]

Leury is an every day player. He can hit for average, has speed on the bases, has a gun for an arm, and can lead off.

Benetti said that he had about as many base hits as Castellanos  does this year.

I'd bring up Robert and have Eloy, Robert and Leury as the starting outfield for the rest of this year and to start 2020,

No reason to give Palka another 60 AB's in the majors while Robert is held back.

Leury is good enough where the Sox can wait for an internal option (Basabe, Rurherford, Walker,,) to develop and replace him down the road, if necessary.

I would bring Madrigal up to play second, Rendon at short (until TA comes back) and Leury in RF. Stop switching Leury  between infield and outfield.

[Moan4Yoan]

36 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The only question is whether you want to pay both Yolmer and Leury at the same time...with Anderson and Robert in 2020, Leury obviously becomes less of a necessity.

Most of us would pick Leury for the next two years...but that might change yet again by season’s end.

Definitely would rather have Leury.  He’s a super utility guy and can hit.  Yolmer can only play the infield and can’t hit for shit.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, tray said:

Leury is an every day player. He can hit for average, has speed on the bases, has a gun for an arm, and can lead off.

Benetti said that he had about as many base hits as Castellanos  does this year.

 

The way Leury is hitting I no longer have a problem seeing his name in the lineup. He's another guy having a very nice season. Damn ... Ricky does have some talent to work with. Leury can hit a bit to go with the studs Eloy, Moncada, Timmy, Abreu and McCann this season. I guess the rotation of Gio and Cease and pray for rain and one reliable reliever in Colome and spotty defense is nuff to keep us under .500. I. Like. Leury.

Edited July 5, 2019 by greg775

[Richie]

16 hours ago, JuliusO1274 said:

By trading elite players. A better question question would be what have we gotten for all the "flipped" players? Nothing.

When did Eaton and Quintana become elite? 

 

 

[Richie]

1 hour ago, tray said:

Benetti said that he had about as many base hits as Castellanos  does this year.

Well, this isn't a knock at Leury, but Castellanos hasn't exactly been setting the world on fire swinging the bat this season. He's gotten going a little bit lately after a really poor first couple of months. He's been getting on-base at a real nice clip, which has salvaged his season to this point. 

I'm just pointing out that it's not really a superstar comparison. Castellanos also has an OPS 82 points higher. 18 points better in OPS+.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Those who think we can make the playoffs next year Leury is a valuable piece. He is probably in the middle or near the top of his peak years judging by his stats for this year and the prior 2 years. If Robert and Madrigal play next year then Leury has to be the right fielder while we wait on another OF to develop. The less the Sox spend on FA's the better off they will be. Concentrate on getting starting pitching in FA . Kopech and Cease will need a lot of help in their 1st nearly full seasons. RF might have to wait. I'd try to get Leury acclimated to playing RF for the rest of the season if Cordell can play CF most of the time cromulently. It's time to embiggen Leury.

Edited July 5, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Lillian]

13 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Those who think we can make the playoffs next year Leury is a valuable piece. He is probably in the middle or near the top of his peak years judging by his stats for this year and the prior 2 years. If Robert and Madrigal play next year then Leury has to be the right fielder while we wait on another OF to develop. The less the Sox spend on FA's the better off they will be. Concentrate on getting starting pitching in FA . Kopech and Cease will need a lot of help in their 1st nearly full seasons. RF might have to wait. I'd try to get Leury acclimated to playing RF for the rest of the season if Cordell can play CF most of the time cromulently. It's time to embiggen Leury.

As soon as Anderson returns, putting Leury in RF would be fine, for the rest of the season. If both Robert and Madrigal are on the team next year, they could do worse than having Leury in RF, while the top OF prospects continue to develop, on the Farm.

[JuliusO1274]

4 hours ago, Richie said:

When did Eaton and Quintana become elite? 

 

 

When Quintana was in the top 5 pitchers in WAR the previous 4 seasons  and Eaton put up 6+ WAR prior to the trade. Point is that these trades are different then the "flip" trades when we get players who go into the minors system and never hear about them again.

[oldsox]

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Those who think we can make the playoffs next year Leury is a valuable piece. He is probably in the middle or near the top of his peak years judging by his stats for this year and the prior 2 years. If Robert and Madrigal play next year then Leury has to be the right fielder while we wait on another OF to develop. The less the Sox spend on FA's the better off they will be. Concentrate on getting starting pitching in FA . Kopech and Cease will need a lot of help in their 1st nearly full seasons. RF might have to wait. I'd try to get Leury acclimated to playing RF for the rest of the season if Cordell can play CF most of the time cromulently. It's time to embiggen Leury.

Great word.

When we traded Rios to Rangers and got Leury, it was a salary dump.  I loved the trade, even though I knew little about Leury.  Then, he just kept improving every year.  Turns out, Leury is a much bet player than Rios ever was for the Sox.

[Lip Man 1]

17 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Great word.

When we traded Rios to Rangers and got Leury, it was a salary dump.  I loved the trade, even though I knew little about Leury.  Then, he just kept improving every year.  Turns out, Leury is a much bet player than Rios ever was for the Sox.

In basically the four full seasons Rios played for the Sox he averaged 18 home runs, 24 stolen bases and 70 RBI's. Three times he hit over .275 for the year and played some very good defense in right field. His attitude at times was an issue, twice Ozzie pulled him in the middle of a game for not hustling but the numbers seem to indicate Rios was a much better player than Garcia who is not a very good outfielder.

Garcia has some value certainly but he isn't going to produce on offense like Rios generally did.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Lip Man 1

[Richie]

57 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

In basically the four full seasons Rios played for the Sox he averaged 18 home runs, 24 stolen bases and 70 RBI's. Three times he hit over .275 for the year and played some very good defense in right field. His attitude at times was an issue, twice Ozzie pulled him in the middle of a game for not hustling but the numbers seem to indicate Rios was a much better player than Garcia who is not a very good outfielder.

Garcia has some value certainly but he isn't going to produce on offense like Rios generally did.

Alex's WAR was -0.6, 3.3, -1.9, 4.8 and 1.3 in his seasons with the White Sox. Leury is looking at a 3+ WAR this season and can play respectable D anywhere on the diamond. Only once in 5 seasons was Alex producing more offensively than Leury. He also isn't a "me first" asshole. Give me Leury. 

[greg775]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

In basically the four full seasons Rios played for the Sox he averaged 18 home runs, 24 stolen bases and 70 RBI's. Three times he hit over .275 for the year and played some very good defense in right field. His attitude at times was an issue, twice Ozzie pulled him in the middle of a game for not hustling but the numbers seem to indicate Rios was a much better player than Garcia who is not a very good outfielder.

Garcia has some value certainly but he isn't going to produce on offense like Rios generally did.

Rios to greg is a four-letter word. I did not like his game. Leury has won me over pretty much. I.Love.Leury at this time.

[Richie]

1 hour ago, JuliusO1274 said:

When Quintana was in the top 5 pitchers in WAR the previous 4 seasons  and Eaton put up 6+ WAR prior to the trade. Point is that these trades are different then the "flip" trades when we get players who go into the minors system and never hear about them again.

They're all flip trades. You're flipping a veteran piece to a contender for prospects. Some hit, some don't. Just because the Q, Sale and Eaton trades involved higher value players doesn't change the principle. 

Yes, when you flip a less valuable player. You receive less in compensation. Therefore, you're less likely to land a guy who turns out to be a key contributor to the big league club. So, yeah... you're less likely to have a player become a household name that you received in a low profile trade. It's no different than a high draft pick versus a low one. However, as mentioned, we also got Leury for Rios. So, these lower profile trades can create value for us. 

If the Robertson/Kahnle/Frazier trade had resulted in Rutherford being a stud (jury still technically out) would you refer to that as a "different from a flip" trade as well? Now that Rutherford has disappointed in the White Sox farm system, you probably refer to that as a "flip". This isn't a buffet. 

The idea is the same in all of these deals. 

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, oldsox said:

Great word.

When we traded Rios to Rangers and got Leury, it was a salary dump.  I loved the trade, even though I knew little about Leury.  Then, he just kept improving every year.  Turns out, Leury is a much bet player than Rios ever was for the Sox.

LOL we see cromulent often on here but not embiggen . Both are  The Simpson's made up words that are finding their way into popular culture  in case anyone didn't know that.

[Lip Man 1]

3 hours ago, Richie said:

Alex's WAR was -0.6, 3.3, -1.9, 4.8 and 1.3 in his seasons with the White Sox. Leury is looking at a 3+ WAR this season and can play respectable D anywhere on the diamond. Only once in 5 seasons was Alex producing more offensively than Leury. He also isn't a "me first" asshole. Give me Leury. 

When Leury hits 18 home runs, steals 24 bases and drives in 70 RBI's in a season I'll agree with you.

[Richie]

3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

When Leury hits 18 home runs, steals 24 bases and drives in 70 RBI's in a season I'll agree with you.

That's silly. 

Leury isn't in the lineup to hit for power and he's a lead-off man. Not to mention, he's a lead-off man in a lineup where the bottom of the order is a deserted wasteland of offensive production. Very rarely does he come up with RISP.

You can't compare numbers like that. It's like saying "when Tony Gwynn hits home runs and drives in runs like Albert Belle... I'll agree with you that he's a better player". Tony Gwynn didn't have to do that. (And no... that's not comparing Leury to Gwynn. I don't think I even have to say that, but you never know) Right now, he's on pace to have nearly as good of a year as Rios ever did offensively and he's far more valuable offensively. 

You're cherry picking numbers that favor Rios. That's not how this works. I mean, what happened to batting average? Your brought that up in your prior post. But oops.... Leury is hitting over .300 this year. So, it didn't fit your narrative to bring that up. Did it? lol

By the way, this all ignores the main purpose of that trade. We won that deal because Leury is still giving us value and could for a while. Where as Rios's value with us was depleted anyway when we weren't competing, he was at the end of his career/contract and we traded him.

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Richie

[poppysox]

10 hours ago, Richie said:

Alex's WAR was -0.6, 3.3, -1.9, 4.8 and 1.3 in his seasons with the White Sox. Leury is looking at a 3+ WAR this season and can play respectable D anywhere on the diamond. Only once in 5 seasons was Alex producing more offensively than Leury. He also isn't a "me first" asshole. Give me Leury. 

Alex never was a fan favorite.  He came across as rather emotionless to me.

[Lip Man 1]

9 hours ago, Richie said:

That's silly. 

Leury isn't in the lineup to hit for power and he's a lead-off man. Not to mention, he's a lead-off man in a lineup where the bottom of the order is a deserted wasteland of offensive production. Very rarely does he come up with RISP.

You can't compare numbers like that. It's like saying "when Tony Gwynn hits home runs and drives in runs like Albert Belle... I'll agree with you that he's a better player". Tony Gwynn didn't have to do that. (And no... that's not comparing Leury to Gwynn. I don't think I even have to say that, but you never know) Right now, he's on pace to have nearly as good of a year as Rios ever did offensively and he's far more valuable offensively. 

You're cherry picking numbers that favor Rios. That's not how this works. I mean, what happened to batting average? Your brought that up in your prior post. But oops.... Leury is hitting over .300 this year. So, it didn't fit your narrative to bring that up. Did it? lol

By the way, this all ignores the main purpose of that trade. We won that deal because Leury is still giving us value and could for a while. Where as Rios's value with us was depleted anyway when we weren't competing, he was at the end of his career/contract and we traded him.

 

As if using WAR isn't cherry picking especially for a flawed stat?

I'm not saying Leury doesn't have value, it is a different type of value but offensively he's never going to put up the numbers Rios did and that's a statistical fact. And I never cared much for Rios myself. I was responding to the original poster who said Garcia was better than Rios. Maybe he is in certain ways...but not offensively. 

[Richie]

3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

As if using WAR isn't cherry picking especially for a flawed stat?

I'm not saying Leury doesn't have value, it is a different type of value but offensively he's never going to put up the numbers Rios did and that's a statistical fact. And I never cared much for Rios myself. I was responding to the original poster who said Garcia was better than Rios. Maybe he is in certain ways...but not offensively. 

WAR is a far more relevant stat because it removes the contrasts in playing style and demonstrates overall, raw contribution. I also brought up batting average. Because... ya know... you did. Before you conveniently decided it wasn't in your best interest. 

offensively he's never going to put up the numbers Rios did and that's a statistical fact

Wrong. He'll never put up the power numbers. This year, he IS contributing more than Rios did in every single solitary season, besides one. And (again) he's more valuable defensively. 

All you can do in this argument is hide behind Rios's home runs. Which is like using Micheal Vick's rushing yards as a QB to say he's better than Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.  

Edited July 6, 2019 by Richie

[NWINFan]

56 minutes ago, Richie said:

WAR is a far more relevant stat because it removes the contrasts in playing style and demonstrates overall, raw contribution. I also brought up batting average. Because... ya know... you did. Before you conveniently decided it wasn't in your best interest. 

offensively he's never going to put up the numbers Rios did and that's a statistical fact

Wrong. He'll never put up the power numbers. This year, he IS contributing more than Rios did in every single solitary season, besides one. And (again) he's more valuable defensively. 

All you can do in this argument is hide behind Rios's home runs. Which is like using Micheal Vick's rushing yards as a QB to say he's better than Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.  

I agree with this. Simply put, Leury Garcia is a good player. The Sox should keep him. He is another that should not be traded for prospects.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Richie said:

WAR is a far more relevant stat because it removes the contrasts in playing style and demonstrates overall, raw contribution. I also brought up batting average. Because... ya know... you did. Before you conveniently decided it wasn't in your best interest. 

offensively he's never going to put up the numbers Rios did and that's a statistical fact

Wrong. He'll never put up the power numbers. This year, he IS contributing more than Rios did in every single solitary season, besides one. And (again) he's more valuable defensively. 

All you can do in this argument is hide behind Rios's home runs. Which is like using Micheal Vick's rushing yards as a QB to say he's better than Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.  

I mentioned that three times he hit over .275 including the one season over .300. 

Garcia meanwhile has NEVER hit over .275 for a single season. If anything this year may be an outlier who knows for sure. So I don't think you want to compare batting averages but if so that's your choice.

Again I'm not saying Garcia isn't worth anything, he is...on a good team he'd make an excellent super-sub. Also I repeat I'm not a Rios fan but I recognize he put up some offensive numbers, drove in runs and played very good defense (when he wanted to). Garcia defensively has improved but has everyone already forgotten how much of a butcher he was in the outfield last year? Starting with the home opener vs. Detroit where he misplayed and mishandled balls in the 9th inning helping to cost the Sox the game.

I respect your opinion Richie and your devotion to sabermetics, I simply disagree with the conclusion.

[GermanSoxFan]

3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Starting with the home opener vs. Detroit where he misplayed and mishandled balls in the 9th inning helping to cost the Sox the game.

 

You have brought this one game sample up so many times as if that is indicative of anything. Andruw Jones at one point certainly misplayed a ball that cost his team an utterless meaningless game as well.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, GermanSoxFan said:

You have brought this one game sample up so many times as if that is indicative of anything. Andruw Jones at one point certainly misplayed a ball that cost his team an utterless meaningless game as well.

Leury screwed up a lot of outfield balls last season not just during the home opener. And believe me Leury isn't close to the fielder Jones was.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Lip Man 1

[poppysox]

Leury is a good player ideally suited to be a super sub.  Good tools not great tools.  Best used playing 75% of the games as he fills in adequately for injury and days off.

[Southwest Sider]

Id trust Leury as a super sub, pinch hitter and #9 hitter Sunday lineup starter on the next competitive team. See whats available for him, but if its all pretty meh I'd look into an extension and probably prefer that anyway.

Edited July 7, 2019 by South Sider