Chicago White Sox Posted July 14, 2019 Author Share Posted July 14, 2019 28 minutes ago, poppysox said: I had the same reaction although I would give Lip Man that Herrera probably isn't going to make the cut. Carlos Rondon and Dunning belong on the list for some part of the season and one of Cordell or Tilson also has a chance. Names like Hamilton/Burr & Fulmer are not out of the discussion yet IMO. Herrera is coming from a foot injury. Just cause he sucks this year, doesn’t mean he’ll suck next year. Relievers in general are super volatile. That being said, I agree we can’t count on him for a setup role. We’ll have to add at least one high leverage reliever even if we keep Colome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: They suck. No doubt about it. It will be interesting to see what we do at the deadline. I honestly see one positional hole on this team going forward and that is RF. But the Sox need to spend like crazy on rotation and bullpen arms in the offseason. The only positional hole is RF but the DH is still a mystery in my mind. Pitching need is the two decent starters and of course bullpen arms are always going to be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: You are entirely missing the point here and quite frankly are wrong. OneDog called Collins a 5th round talent. I said every major publication had a 1st round grade on him at the time of the draft and that’s a factual statement. MLBPipeline had him ranked #14, Baseball America had him ranked #16, and Keith Law had him ranked #18. He was a consensus 1st round talent at the time whether you like the pick today or not. Collins had a big hitch in his swing and still does. It was a bad pick and a reach. There was so much prep talent in the 2016 draft class that the Sox whiffed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: Herrera is coming from a foot injury. Just cause he sucks this year, doesn’t mean he’ll suck next year. Relievers in general are super volatile. That being said, I agree we can’t count on him for a setup role. We’ll have to add at least one high leverage reliever even if we keep Colome. I hope Herrera can contribute as you suggest. Just haven't seen it in several months. Colome and Bummer are super. I like Marshall, Hamilton & Burr when healthy. Fry has a role and even Osich looks OK from time to time. We all know that you never have enough pitching and you compete with the other 29 teams who have the same need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tony said: Correct. Nice to meet you. You as well. I'm ready to report for reeducation camp. I will only go though if I can bring my brother in law and best friend with me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 14, 2019 Author Share Posted July 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: They suck. No doubt about it. It will be interesting to see what we do at the deadline. I honestly see one positional hole on this team going forward and that is RF. But the Sox need to spend like crazy on rotation and bullpen arms in the offseason. And we should give them the benefit of the doubt for now. If they don’t, we’ll all riot and I’m be first one in line with a torch & pitchfork demanding change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Herrera is coming from a foot injury. Just cause he sucks this year, doesn’t mean he’ll suck next year. Relievers in general are super volatile. That being said, I agree we can’t count on him for a setup role. We’ll have to add at least one high leverage reliever even if we keep Colome. I disagree. They badly need two starting pitchers and two relief pitchers this off season. No excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: And we should give them the benefit of the doubt for now. If they don’t, we’ll all riot and I’m be first one in line with a torch & pitchfork demanding change. Yesssssssss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Lip Man 1 said: I disagree. They badly need two starting pitchers and two relief pitchers this off season. No excuses. Correctamundo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 14, 2019 Author Share Posted July 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: Collins had a big hitch in his swing and still does. It was a bad pick and a reach. There was so much prep talent in the 2016 draft class that the Sox whiffed on. That doesn’t change the fact he was a 1st round talent. 1st round picks bust all the time. And I really wish we could have heard your thoughts at the time, because everyone sounds smart with the benefit of hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 If Collins has a hitch in his swing, I am having dejavu to Beckham which is why he also failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: That doesn’t change the fact he was a 1st round talent. 1st round picks bust all the time. And I really wish we could have heard your thoughts at the time, because everyone sounds smart with the benefit of hindsight. With the #10 pick in that draft I would have gone with a high upside prep talent. The Sox used their first three picks on Zach Collins, Zach Burdi, and Alec Hansen. They basically punted away an entire draft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 1 hour ago, poppysox said: As part of a Joc Pederson trade? We're destined to get Pederson. His name has appeared too many times on the this board and in media the last few years for Hahn to not get KW's man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, greg775 said: We're destined to get Pederson. His name has appeared too many times on the this board and in media the last few years for Hahn to not get KW's man. Pederson is a free agent after 2020 I believe. The Sox should just sign him then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 14, 2019 Author Share Posted July 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: With the #10 pick in that draft I would have gone with a high upside prep talent. The Sox used their first three picks on Zach Collins, Zach Burdi, and Alec Hansen. They basically punted away an entire draft. Like who? Blake Rutherford? Or quickly scroll through the list of HS kids that worked out and say one of them. Also, at various points in time, all three of those guys were top 100 prospects. Hansen lead the minors in strikeouts in 2017 and Burdi was probably the premier relief prospect in the game before his TJS (FG loved the kid). Arguing against their draft strategy is fair game, but to say they punted away an entire draft is beyond idiotic. Two years ago, this draft class looked like an absolute haul when you also factor in Lambert, Flores, & Hamilton. You are using revisionist theory to fulfill your negativity agenda. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Like who? Blake Rutherford? Or quickly scroll through the list of HS kids that worked out and say one of them. Also, at various points in time, all three of those guys were top 100 prospects. Hansen lead the minors in strikeouts in 2017 and Burdi was probably the premier relief prospect in the game before his TJS (FG loved the kid). Arguing against their draft strategy is fair game, but to say they punted away an entire draft is beyond idiotic. Two years ago, this draft class looked like an absolute haul when you also factor in Lambert, Flores, & Hamilton. You are using revisionist theory to fulfill your negativity agenda. Go look at the 2016 draft. There was a ton of high upside prep talent in that draft. Why would it be crazy to draft a prep guy with the #10 pick? So what if they were all top 100 prospects at one point? Where they are now is all that matters. Also, Zach Burdi was never a top 100 prospect and using a top 30 pick on a college relief pitcher is always a bad idea. Two guys from the 2016 draft class have already made the all-star game. The Sox went totally college heavy in 2016. What do they have to show for it so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 14, 2019 Author Share Posted July 14, 2019 Just now, OneDog847 said: Go look at the 2016 draft. There was a ton of high upside prep talent in that draft. Why would it be crazy to draft a prep guy with the #10 pick? So what if they were all top 100 prospects at one point? Where they are now is all that matters. Also, Zach Burdi was never a top 100 prospect and using a top 30 pick on a college relief pitcher is always a bad idea. Two guys from the 2016 draft class have already made the all-star game. The Sox went totally college heavy in 2016. What do they have to show for it so far? I literally said word for word “you can question their draft strategy”. I don’t care if you rip the Collins pick. But to say they punted the draft is absurd as saying Collins was a 5th round talent. And yes, Fangraphs had Burdi as a top 100 prospect before his TJS. Also, the fact they were all top 100 prospects at one point in time matters because they were able to increase their value for a stretch. Injuries and unforeseen things do happen and it’s hard to fault the organization for those things. That being said, at one point in time a package of three could have landed you a pretty nice major league player. Us failing to capitalize on that value does not mean we were terrible draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I literally said word for word “you can question their draft strategy”. I don’t care if you rip the Collins pick. But to say they punted the draft is absurd as saying Collins was a 5th round talent. And yes, Fangraphs had Burdi as a top 100 prospect before his TJS. Also, the fact they were all top 100 prospects at one point in time matters because they were able to increase their value for a stretch. Injuries and unforeseen things do happen and it’s hard to fault the organization for those things. That being said, at one point in time a package of three could have landed you a pretty nice major league player. Us failing to capitalize on that value does not mean we were terrible draft picks. Again, the Sox went extremely college heavy in the 2016 draft and have little to nothing to show for it 3 years later. Keep telling yourself it was a good draft class all you want. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said: I disagree. They badly need two starting pitchers and two relief pitchers this off season. No excuses. You are correct, I would like one starter to be a "Swingman" type though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: You are correct, I would like one starter to be a "Swingman" type though. Like a Tanner Roark or Michael Wacha type guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 48 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: Like a Tanner Roark or Michael Wacha type guy? Exactly. I'm not ready to give up on Lopez yet and I want him starting the year in the rotation, but I also know that Kopech may not be coming out guns blazing to start the year, so I want a guy who can start the year in the rotation and then move to the bullpen a few times if I need him to or take Lopez's spot for a short stint if I have to drop Lopez to the bullpen for a bit, especially once Rodon returns mid-year. I don't want 2 top flight starters because I believe there's a lot of value in turning the guys we have into something useful; we might be a wild card team next year with a rookie CF, 1b, 2b, 2 second year starters, a second year LF, and a second year platoon catcher. We were very, very correct in making moves so that we did not block the important guys, next year we are ready to make our first move, but we should follow that same rule so that we keep ourselves looking forward as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 14, 2019 Author Share Posted July 14, 2019 24 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: Again, the Sox went extremely college heavy in the 2016 draft and have little to nothing to show for it 3 years later. Keep telling yourself it was a good draft class all you want. Again, I’m not even saying it’s good, you said “they punted the draft” because of those three picks which is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan of Steel Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 43 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: Again, the Sox went extremely college heavy in the 2016 draft and have little to nothing to show for it 3 years later. Keep telling yourself it was a good draft class all you want. Your ability to put words in his mouth is quite impressive. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 3 hours ago, OneDog847 said: Where they are now is all that matters. This is exactly why you are wrong in this argument. You are using hindsight to guide your narrative. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Did we not DFA Covey after that masterpiece? Geez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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