fathom Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Bassitt dominating with very average stuff. He is so lucky he got traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 minute ago, fathom said: Out of curiosity, have you ever actually seen the minor leaguers that you praise so much? Nope. I have seen Reed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 minute ago, HOFHurt35 said: I can't give Collins a fair assessment when he gets ABs only once per week. By default he's a high K guy, not facing pitching frequently I'm pretty sure worsens the odds of making contact. This argument sort of needs to die, or at least take a giant step back. There's utility players, 4th outfielders and 2nd catchers all over the damn league who play once/twice a week. They do fine at the plate. This argument would carry SOME weight if he was at least battling and putting balls in play. However, it's not just that he isn't getting hits. It's that he looks like a fan who won a "play a month in the big leagues!" raffle. He can't even sniff contact. It's a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Richie said: I don't think you can justify keeping him here. He's completely out of his league with the bat in his hand. The Sox are tanking this year. Let Collins take his lumps now. I don't want him up in 2020 striking out 50 percent of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Richie said: This argument sort of needs to die, or at least take a giant step back. There's utility players, 4th outfielders and 2nd catchers all over the damn league who play once/twice a week. They do fine at the plate. Because those guys actually played regularly at one time. Usually bench guys are failed starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, poppysox said: Nope. I have seen Reed. Sheets has consistently been a .770 OPS guy in the minor leagues, at all levels. Including .768 this year in AA. Reed is one of the best AAA players over the past few years. He's twice led the minors in home runs. It just seems like you're really into the "backup quarterback" fallacy. "Whoever isn't playing must be the answer." If you're giving up on Reed after 6 PA's that include a hit and a walk for a guy like Sheets posting a .768 OPS. Imagine what you'd be doing if Sheets didn't get it going right away, with Reed terrorizing AAA Charlotte as he had been in AAA Round Rock. "We have a guy pacing for 35 minor league HR's and a .900 OPS! But we call Sheets up!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Richie said: This argument sort of needs to die, or at least take a giant step back. There's utility players, 4th outfielders and 2nd catchers all over the damn league who play once/twice a week. They do fine at the plate. This argument would carry SOME weight if he was at least battling and putting balls in play. However, it's not just that he isn't getting hits. It's that he looks like a fan who won a "play a month in the big leagues!" raffle. He can't even sniff contact. It's a joke. You can't take a guy from playing 4-5 times per week his entire young life to this now and expect him to look somewhat formidable. What league are you watching? Utility players and 4th OFs normally fall into that category after being failed starters. Collins hasn't even been allowed to be a failed starter here at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Just now, SoxAce said: Because those guys actually played regularly at one time. Usually bench guys are failed starters. Most catchers come up in the 2nd catcher role. There's a ton of guys who come up and aren't full-time players. A lot of them start out doing well in a part time role. There's a ton of guy's who don't start out of spring training, make it one of the aforementioned roles and never leave it all season. They don't humiliate themselves at the plate. This excuse is just downright silly. The guy is hitting .038. There isn't a single way you can justify that. You have to earn full-time AB's. Collins is an embarrassment right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Richie said: Sheets has consistently been a .770 OPS guy in the minor leagues, at all levels. Including .768 this year in AA. Reed is one of the best AAA players over the past few years. He's twice led the minors in home runs. It just seems like you're really into the "backup quarterback" fallacy. "Whoever isn't playing must be the answer." If you're giving up on Reed after 6 PA's that include a hit and a walk for a guy like Sheets posting a .768 OPS. Imagine what you'd be doing if Sheets didn't get it going right away, with Reed terrorizing AAA Charlotte as he had been in AAA Round Rock. "We have a guy pacing for 35 minor league HR's and a .900 OPS! But we call Sheets up!" Truth is I don't understand why Reed is up at all. Picking him up as minor league filler is fine but he serves no purpose on this team IMO. Sheets is just an example of actual minor leaguers in our system that you could take a look at if we really needed someone at the ML level. You and I both know that Reed/Sanchez/Garcia are not the answer on championship teams...they are the backup quarterbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Good AB for Reed. Surprised at his WTP so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 hour ago, fathom said: Trade Madrigal for controllable starter Why trade for a starter when we guy sign two in free agency? The current 4th, 5th, & 19th ranked starters based on fWAR will be available for just money plus Bumgarner and a few other semi interesting guys. Zero excuse to not go out and add a least one impact starter and another mid-rotation type. Also, I just saw Lance Lynn’s numbers and I can’t believe how much hate I got for suggesting that we sign him. He obviously won’t be the 2nd best starter in baseball forever, but he would have actually filled the reliable mid rotation starter role we’ll need to address this offseason. And for this year least, he would have basically cost the same as Nova. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Richie said: Most catchers come up in the 2nd catcher role. There's a ton of guys who come up and aren't full-time players. A lot of them start out doing well in a part time role. There's a ton of guy's who don't start out of spring training, make it one of the aforementioned roles and never leave it all season. They don't humiliate themselves at the plate. This excuse is just downright silly. The guy is hitting .038. There isn't a single way you can justify that. You have to earn full-time AB's. Collins is an embarrassment right now. Dude, that's a #1 draft pick Catchers with a career +.800 OPS in the minors. I need a little bit of what you're smoking, at least would make this game a little more enjoyable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Richie said: Most catchers come up in the 2nd catcher role. There's a ton of guys who come up and aren't full-time players. A lot of them start out doing well in a part time role. There's a ton of guy's who don't start out of spring training, make it one of the aforementioned roles and never leave it all season. They don't humiliate themselves at the plate. This excuse is just downright silly. The guy is hitting .038. There isn't a single way you can justify that. You have to earn full-time AB's. Collins is an embarrassment right now. Good points. Do you think Collins has any future with the Sox? I just don't see the point of playing him in Charlotte during a tank year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 minute ago, HOFHurt35 said: You can't take a guy from playing 4-5 times per week his entire young life to this now and expect him to look somewhat formidable. What league are you watching? Utility players and 4th OFs normally fall into that category after being failed starters. Collins hasn't even been allowed to be a failed starter here at this level. I'm sorry, but this is such a forced argument. It's silly. I outlined some of the reasons above. There isn't an excuse for how bad Collins looks. If it was simply a matter of timing, etc. and he was at least making contact. There would be a point here, but he's not. He looks like he has NO business being here. Utility players and 4th OFs normally fall into that category after being failed starters. So, why do they look formidable when they adjust to the new role as a part-time player? I mean, I thought we couldn't expect guys to do anything but roll on the ground and shit themselves like a hapless child when suddenly playing part-time. Why do players come up all of the time as 2nd catchers and not embarrass themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: Why trade for a starter when we guy sign two in free agency? The current 4th, 5th, & 19th ranked starters based on fWAR will be available for just money plus Bumgarner and a few other semi interesting guys. Zero excuse to not go out and add a least one impact starter and another mid-rotation type. Also, I just saw Lance Lynn’s numbers and I can’t believe how much hate I got for suggesting that we sign him. He obviously won’t be the 2nd best starter in baseball forever, but he would have actually filled the reliable mid rotation starter role we’ll need to address this offseason. And for this year least, he would have basically cost the same as Nova. Because there are a lot of teams that will be in the market for pitching this offseason that aren’t afraid of big deals for pitchers. As you know, this isn’t going to be like last year where a lot of the big spenders are tapped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: Good points. Do you think Collins has any future with the Sox? I just don't see the point of playing him in Charlotte during a tank year. Sure there’s a reason, keep working on catching. It’s not like he was destroying the ball in Charlotte the last few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 The biggest reason to send Collins down is because of how he'd be used here (once or twice a week) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Just now, fathom said: Because there are a lot of teams that will be in the market for pitching this offseason that aren’t afraid of big deals for pitchers. As you know, this isn’t going to be like last year where a lot of the big spenders are tapped out. This times a million. Some people have some real short memories around here. Good starting pitching is expensive and risky. Our current owner doesn't like those two words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said: Dude, that's a #1 draft pick Catchers with a career +.800 OPS in the minors. I need a little bit of what you're smoking, at least would make this game a little more enjoyable. It's unbelievable really. Usually catchers DH (and also catch on certain days) while they learn on the fly other aspects of their pitcher(s), signs, etc. at various times. I get the Sox/Ricky taking it slow with him (and with how McCann is swinging the bat, fine) but not even giving him Alonso at the time and Palka recently ABs is crazy. Not saying he's going to be anything even after that, but this 1 maybe 2 times a week thing isn't how you go about it. Edited July 13, 2019 by SoxAce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 minute ago, OneDog847 said: This times a million. Some people have some real short memories around here. Good starting pitching is expensive and risky. Our current owner doesn't like those two words. Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Astros and Padres are all going to spend on pitching this offseason. Have fun getting into bidding wars with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, fathom said: Sure there’s a reason, keep working on catching. It’s not like he was destroying the ball in Charlotte the last few months. His catching hasn't looked that terrible actually. It is his bat that looks awful. Playing in the bandbox in Charlotte isn't going to help his bat. 1 minute ago, Heads22 said: The biggest reason to send Collins down is because of how he'd be used here (once or twice a week) This is probably how he will be used next year as well so he should get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Heads22 said: The biggest reason to send Collins down is because of how he'd be used here (once or twice a week) Exactly. He needs to catch and hit 5 times per week. People have quickly soured on Collins seeing what McCann has done for half a season. Pump the brakes a little : 1) Maybe McCann is not as great as his BABIP indicates 2) Collins is still our future full time catcher until we get confirmation McCann has signed a long term deal here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said: Dude, that's a #1 draft pick Catchers with a career +.800 OPS in the minors. I need a little bit of what you're smoking, at least would make this game a little more enjoyable. A 24 year old with an .800 career OPS in AAA!? Well, that changes everything. .800 OPS... and in AAA? Man oh man. This guy is something special. lol I thought the guy hitting .040 with a K% just under 50% looked overmatched. But now that I hear about this MAMMOTH .800 AAA OPS. Nobody has ever failed in the big leagues after eye popping numbers like that. I was definitely a fool for suggesting that the guy who might as well be swinging a wiffle ball bat up there looked overmatched. I must be so F'ING high! Maybe if we gave him full-time AB's - he could get that batting average up to .100. We'll call it... getting above the "Zack Collins line". Edited July 13, 2019 by Richie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Just now, HOFHurt35 said: Exactly. He needs to catch and hit 5 times per week. People have quickly soured on Collins seeing what McCann has done for half a season. Pump the brakes a little : 1) Maybe McCann is not as great as his BABIP indicates 2) Collins is still our future full time catcher until we get confirmation McCann has signed a long term deal here. I don’t think there’s a chance he’s a future full time catcher. Platoon catcher is his best bet, if he’s lucky. I just don’t think the swing/approach is going to work at this level. He seems to react to the pitch too late and doesn’t have the bat speed/path to make up for the delay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Richie said: A 24 year old with an .800 career OPS in AAA!? Well, that changes everything. .800 OPS... and in AAA? Man oh man. This guy is something special. lol I thought the guy hitting .040 with a K% just under 50% looked overmatched. But now that I hear about this MAMMOTH .800 AAA OPS. Nobody has ever failed in the big leagues after eye popping numbers like that. I was definitely a fool for suggesting that the guy who might as well be swinging a wiffle ball bat up there looked overmatched. I must be so F'ING high! Maybe if we gave him full-time AB's - he could get that batting average up to .100. We'll call it... getting above the "Zack Collins line". OK, now you're just being a troll. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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